UK Tournament Tactica Diary - Now using a Draigowing

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Re: UK Tournament Tactica Diary - Now using a Draigowing

Post by Tiberius on Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:39 am

jay170788 wrote:
jb317 wrote:I think a way to differentiate universally might be that "To Wound" rolls are made specifically in reference to the To Wound chart whilst other rolls that may or may not end up with a wound being allocated do not relate to the To Wound chart.

but snipers and poisoned weapons do not refer to the To Wound chart but still count as To Wound rolls. If only it was that clear :-(

Actually, poisoned weapons only modify the value you need on the to wound chart if they have an inherent strength value. Poisoned weapons without a strength value, or sniper rifles, do however override the chart. Their rolls to wound are still referred to as To Wound rolls (with capital letter), thus distinguishing them as valid Rending subjects.

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Re: UK Tournament Tactica Diary - Now using a Draigowing

Post by Embolden40k on Sat Apr 06, 2013 1:58 pm

So this went a little off topic! LOL :p

Had two games this week, battle reports to follow, both typed up, but left on my work PC! D'oh! The first is Dark Eldar and the second SW with Blob allies.

I have 2 games planned this week, the first is against Helldrakes + stuff and other is against TAU! both should be interesting games!

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Re: UK Tournament Tactica Diary - Now using a Draigowing

Post by Vecuu on Sat Apr 06, 2013 2:47 pm

Let us know how the games go.

Good luck!

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Re: UK Tournament Tactica Diary - Now using a Draigowing

Post by Rivan on Sat Apr 06, 2013 4:16 pm

Looking forward to reading your batreps. And good luck w/ the next two games. I'm very interested to see how the new Tau will do. I really like their codex--very well written IMO.

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"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: UK Tournament Tactica Diary - Now using a Draigowing

Post by Embolden40k on Sun Apr 07, 2013 12:38 am

Thanks Vecuu!

@ Rivan: Thanks

I've not had chance to take a look at the new Tau codex, but from the rumours I've read, they're looking more competitive, with plenty of tricks and some interesting options (re: Riptide :p)

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Re: UK Tournament Tactica Diary - Now using a Draigowing

Post by jay170788 on Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:59 am

If no-one has read the quick round-up of the Tau codex on 3plusplus then i would recommend it. They are now awesome and absolutely wiped the floor with tyranids in White Dwarf. They may even start getting a cheese tag lol

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Re: UK Tournament Tactica Diary - Now using a Draigowing

Post by Embolden40k on Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:59 am

Tau and cheesy! What is this game we're talking about? :p

Just started to read the summary, looks like a commander with interceptor and broadsides will be a must, tempted to take them as allies.. dropping my flyer (because everyone will be using Tau allies) and then maybe even the Dreadknight and second OMI this gives me almost 500pts to spend!

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Re: UK Tournament Tactica Diary - Now using a Draigowing

Post by Embolden40k on Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:34 am

GAME2

Hey guys,

Game2 and I was facing off against Dan and his Dark Eldar:

I was taking the same list as before.

My GK list:
OMI Terminator Armour, Hammer, Psycannon, Psyker lvl1, Servo Skull
OMI Terminator Armour, Hammer, Psycannon, Psyker lvl1
10 Strikes 2 Psycannons, Razorback, Psybolt Ammo
10 Strikes 2 Psycannons, Razorback, Psybolt Ammo
10 Termiantors 2 Psycannons
Storm Raven TL Lascannon, TL Multimelta
Dreadnought 2 Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo
Dreadnought 2 Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo
Dreadknight Heavy Incinerator

Dan was taking Dark Eldar:
Archon with 2+ Inv save and nasty close combat weapons AP2
Haemonculie with STR8 shooting weapon and something with instant kill AP2 in combat
3 T5 bodyguards (not sure on name) all these in Raider with 1 Dark Lance
3x5 Warriors with 1 Blaster in each all in Venoms with 2 Cannons
1x 5 Wyches with Haywire grenades In a Venom with 2 Cannons
1x5 Wracks in Venom with 2 Cannons
3 guys on foot with Dark Lances
Ravager with 3 Disintegrator Cannons
And a FW thing which has 1 large weapon which is STR5 blast or STR7 AP3 single shot, with D3 Haywire hits + Str7 hit! Basically a nasty anti-tank weapon.
And a Bomber, with Dark Lances, 2 big blast bombs and 2 Ap1 small blasts missiles
Aegis with Quadgun

So taking a quick look at his list:
Its going to be very hard hitting, but like a typical Dark Eldar list, its a glass hammer list, the Aegis could be very important in giving all his vehicles a 4+ cover save. The T5 bodyguards for the Archon and Haemonculi is an interesting choice and not one Ive seen before, they will take a lot of fire to get through! My Dreads and Razorback will be important at taking out the Vehicles while my infantry will deal with his infantry in double quick time, but the DE list has the tools to deal with my tanks, should be a interesting game either way!

So onto the game:

We were playing Purge the Alien and Vanguard Strike Deployment:

Warlord Traits: Dark Eldar: may redeploy units (1-3d6 or 3-1d6)
I got Outflanking units have acute senses... great

Psychic Powers:
Warlord OMI: re-roll saves, hits and to wound traded in for Prescience
OMI: same power traded in for Prescience

No nightfight turn1

I won the roll for turn1 and took it with both hands!!!!

Deployment
As this game was KPs I wouldnt be combat squading for obvious tactical reasons, although this may limit my killing potential against all those targets, it means my army will be much harder to get KPs out of.

I deployed in a line, flanked on either side go the Strike squads, a Dread deployed centrally and the other on the right flank, the Terminators in the centre and the 2 Razorbacks also in the centre towards the left.

Dan deployed very aggressively behind the Aegis which was right on the deployment edge, this was a massive gamble if he doesnt seize. 3 Venoms with Warriors deploy behind the Aegis and as far forwards as possible, the Forge Wold Tank deployed a little behind them as does the Ravager (all fairly central, but to the right), the 3 guys on foot with Dark Lances deployed behind ruined wall also central. The HQ in Raider, the Wyches in Venom and Wracks in Venom will all be deep striking??

So my aim is to cripple the mobility, Dan has been quite generous by keeping within the 30 range of the Psycannons from the Terminators and 1 Strike squad, with the Venoms and the Raider will need to be taken out because it will keep MEQs and TEQs for fun, if I can take out the FW tank, that will give me tanks fire superiority and it will take a lot of luck for Dans infantry with Blasters to deal with my tanks.

Turn1
Luckily the DE didnt seize!

I moved towards the Dark Eldar with everything bar 1 Razorback which immobilised itself in terrain (happened last game as well!!), prescience went off on both the Terminators and Strike squad next to them. With my army drawing LOS to 90 of the DE army, due to clumsy deployment from Dan, the shooting phase starts the Dread on the right taking 2 HPs off the Raider which immobilises and Stuns it, not taking any risks the second Dread fires into the stricken Raider and explodes it, the Strikes next to the Dread fire into the Quadgun (only the thing in range) and they take that out, the Terminators in the middle over kill a Venom in the middle and kill 1 of the contents, the Strike squad on the left wreck another Venom, the Heavy Bolter Razorbacks dont have LOS to the 3rd Venom so target the FW tank and fail to scratch it despite 6 hits at ST6!

DE
Well, that was a sucker punch that will take some recovering from; Dan fires every anti infantry shot into the Strikes on the left flank and kill 2 Strikes. The FW tank misses a Dread with its STR7 shot and the 3 Dark lance dudes fire at a Razorback, doing no damage.

Tactical thoughts:
Looks like things are going well and with 3-0 lead on KPs, with Firstblood and most of Dans ranged anti-infantry fire power taken out, next turn I want to take out the FW tank and the remaining Venom to give me fire and mobility superiority

Turn2
GK
I get both my reserves, the Storm Raven moves into Melta range of the FW tank, the Dreadknight lands in the backlines of Dans army to cause a big distraction, the Terminators move up with the Strikes in support on either flank after casting Warp Quake, the Dreads get LOS to the FW tank. Shooting phase, the Dread on the right opens up on the FW tank taking 2 HPs off and the Storm Raven explodes it. The Strikes on the left flank take out the last Venom on the table, the Dreadknight flames the Dark Lance guys and 1 Warrior from a second squad, the 1 Dark Lance guy survives, the Razorbacks and Dread start thinning the 5 man squads of warriors, the Terminators remove a squad that was manning the Quad-gun last turn and Dan only has 6 models left on the table from, 4 squads!

DE
Dan gets both Venoms and the Raider on from reserve, but the flyer stays in reserve, one Venom misshaps thanks to Warp Quake and I place it next to the Dreadknight facing the board edge, the Raider scatter behind a large LOS blocking terrain, so has no target and the second Venom lands in the open both are behind my lines, that Venom starts the shooting phase by firing in the back of the Strike squad on the right flank and takes out both Psycannons... the Venom on the left shoots into the Dreadknight, but I argue it doesnt have LOS because its facing the boardedge, but my opponent argues that it has 360 degree LOS... it didnt pivot , but I didnt argue it and it takes 2 wounds off! The Dark lance toting guy fires at the Dreadknight and misses, the Blaster from the remaining warrior squad and the Warriors fire into the Dreadknight doing no further damage.

Tactical thoughts:
I only added 1 KP this turn with the FW tank gone, but Dan also wasnt able to take any KPs out of me either, Im still way in the ascendancy and am looking at a big win! 5-0 (Linebreaker + 4 KPs)

Turn3
GK
With the new arrivals behind and infront of me, so the army halted its advance and did an about turned, the Dreadknight moved up towards the lone Dark Lance, the Terminators and Strikes on the right, along with the Dreads all get LOS to the new arrivals, the Dreadknight opens the shooting by flamering the lone Dark Lance and into the Warriors ahead, it kills them all! The Dreads and then do there stuff wrecking both the Raider and Venom, while the Strikes leave 1 Wrack left, the Terminators dont have LOS to any of the survivors so move and run.

DE
The Venom and Blaster from the last Warrior squad finish off the Dreadknight for the first killpoint, the flyer stays in reserve as the dice give no mercy to Dan. The HQ squad cower behind the LOS terrain.

Tactical thoughts:
This game is over as a contest, Im now 9-1 up with only 6 units left on the table, all of which are cowering behind terrain, but Dan refuses to give up!

Turn4
GK
With little left, the Storm Raven and a Dread shoot down the Venom and the Wyches that fell out, the strikes on the right flank finish off the Wrack that survived last turn and the Termiantors kill both the HQ and leave 1 of the T5 guys left at which point Dan calls it quits, as he has 2 units left on the table and no way to get another more KPs. The game finished 14-1 in total, (12-1 KPs)

Fair play to Dan for at least trying to make it a game, but we spoke at length how at deployment he lost this game, he had 2 buildings in his deployment zone he could of hid behind, but hed only used the Aegis Defence Line a couple of times and got lulled into thinking it would protect his force. We will be having a rematch in a few weeks, so stay tuned for that.

But what did I learn?

Well not a massive amount tbh as it was such a one sided game and basically a turkey shoot!

But I did learn that my army is a tabling army in the right circumstances, there were only a couple of DE models on the table at the end of my turn4.

I believe that the lack of night fight really helped my army dominate the early part of the game, turn1 was probably the most pivotal part of the game from which Dan was not able to recover, but he should have reacted to a lack of night fight and my range fire power with his deployment, deploying deeper in his deployment zone and used the terrain to better effect.

The Dreadnoughts have been golden, in both games so far, giving me lots of range and the threat of firstblood is massive if there are any light vehicles on the table, they have done that very well, but the real stars of the list have been the Terminators so far, they easily do the most damage in the list given the chance.

Although the OMIs both got rubbish powers originally this game, being able to swap out for 2 presciences still gives the list as VERY strong presence, passing out a prescience to a strike squad each turn really helps there tactical flexibility as well.

I have played another game this week, this time against Blob Guard with Space Wolves! I will get this posted up ASAP!

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Re: UK Tournament Tactica Diary - Now using a Draigowing

Post by DOMIN4TRIX on Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:52 am

A solid win, well played - i'm really enjoying these reports.

I always feel that getting first turn against DE especially is huge, they are so squishy you can rip them apart - on the other hand they are quite capable of taking out both your dreads and making a mess of your terminators if your opponent had won the roll off. I remember losing the best part of 10 palladins (both combat squads) to blaster and lance fire on T1 before now.

It would be interesting to see how different the game could have been if roles were reversed and he had opened - the outcome would probably be the same because we are more durable though I have a suspicion it wouldn't have been so one sided.

Deploying within 30" of GK's when your going second is suicide - prescient/relentless psycannons are something to avoid!


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Re: UK Tournament Tactica Diary - Now using a Draigowing

Post by Embolden40k on Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:23 pm

DOMIN4TRIX wrote:A solid win, well played - i'm really enjoying these reports.

I always feel that getting first turn against DE especially is huge, they are so squishy you can rip them apart - on the other hand they are quite capable of taking out both your dreads and making a mess of your terminators if your opponent had won the roll off. I remember losing the best part of 10 palladins (both combat squads) to blaster and lance fire on T1 before now.

It would be interesting to see how different the game could have been if roles were reversed and he had opened - the outcome would probably be the same because we are more durable though I have a suspicion it wouldn't have been so one sided.

Deploying within 30" of GK's when your going second is suicide - prescient/relentless psycannons are something to avoid!


Very true - DE are the ultimate glass hammer army, Dark Eldar used to be the nemesis of my Paladin army, so many shots, so many STR8 AP2 weapons, so many targets!

Totally agree about a reverse of who had turn1, Dans army has a lot of tools to do lots of damage to my force, so I look forward to a rematch.

deploying within 30" was a massive mistake, I think Dan learnt a lot about sloppy deployment, but he did admit he didn't play the best.

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Re: UK Tournament Tactica Diary - Now using a Draigowing

Post by Rivan on Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:50 pm

Grats on the win, well played!

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"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: UK Tournament Tactica Diary - Now using a Draigowing

Post by Embolden40k on Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:00 pm

Rivan wrote:Grats on the win, well played!

Cheers Rivan!

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Re: UK Tournament Tactica Diary - Now using a Draigowing

Post by Rivan on Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:31 pm

Something to think about for your re-match...

Since taking 1st turn is pretty crucial whenever we play DE, you might consider replacing one of the OMI w/ Coteaz. Sure you lose 1 psycannon but you get an extra psychic power and it is almost impossible for him to seize the initiative from you. Conversely, you have 2 chances to seize the initiative from him. Just a thought...

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"Though we face the power of hell, and death is at our side, we fear not, for the Emperor is with us through it all. If we live, we live for the Emperor. If we die, we die for the Emperor. So whether we live or die, we are the Emperor's. We are Grey Knights and this is why we came to be." --Grandmaster Rivan

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: UK Tournament Tactica Diary - Now using a Draigowing

Post by Embolden40k on Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:52 am

I know what you mean, Coteaz brings a lot to the table for less pts than a OMI, double roll on the Divination table, I've Been Expecting You, re-rolling seizing the initiative, Sanctuary and Hammerhand are also great powers.

But a lack of Psycannon, the second power is not always useful, plus I find the balance of the 4 Psycannons in the Terminator squad does well, plus it allows be to combat squad with a balanced unit (2 squads with 2 Psycannons in each.

So both have merits and at some stage I want to try Coteaz again, I feel it will boil down to how often I combat squad the Terminators, at the moment it's not every game, in which case I think Coteaz will be a better choice as the second divination power will be more effective (4+ Inv, Overwatch, Ignore cover are all better on larger units).

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Re: UK Tournament Tactica Diary - Now using a Draigowing

Post by Embolden40k on Wed Apr 10, 2013 3:39 am

Hey guys, thanks for all the feedback so far!

Another battle report today (Game3): last weekend I faced off against a strong tournament build here in the UK, so this would be a good practice game for the future.

I was using my usual list:
OMI Terminator Armour, Psycannon, Hammer, Psyker, 1 Servo Skull
OMI Terminator Armour, Psycannon, Hammer, Psyker
2x10 Strikes 2 Psycannons
1x10 Terminators, 2 Psycannons, 6 Halberds, 4 Hammers
Storm Raven TL Lascannon and Multimelta
2 Dreadnoughts 2 Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo
Dreadknight Heavy Incinerator

I was facing off against: 2x Rune Priest LVL2 with Force Axe, both powers traded in for Divination, 3x10 Grey Hunters with 2 Plasma and Power Axe in each, 2xLone Wolfs in Terminator Armour, Power Fist, Storm Shield, 2x5 Long Fangs 4 Missiles in each, Lord Commissar Power Axe, 5 Platoons with Autocannons, 4 Power Axes, 2 Meltabombs, Vendetta with Heavy Bolters.

Looking at the SW/IG list, its virtually all scoring and extremely hard to dominate, like in the previous battles, I could quite happily sit in the centre of the table and dominate the game from there, but this game would be quite different as this blob could quite happily compete in combat and shooting with plenty of shooting backing up the blob and grey hunters, the only advantage I have over this list is the speed of the Razorbacks.

Mission: Crusade (4 Objectives) and Vanguard Strike deployment

Nightfight is in not in effect turn1

Objective Placement: the first is placed fairly central, second, top left, third on top of a 3 story ruin, fourth top middle.

Warlord Traits:
SW/IG Reroll reserves
GK Stealth and move through cover in ruins.

The Servo skull is placed centrally and between both the central objectives

Psychic Powers:
Warlord RP Prescience and 4+ Inv save
RP Prescience and overwatch at normal BS

Warlord OMI Prescience
OMI Misfortune

Deployment
The SW/IG get first turn, but I pick the side with the 3 story ruin with an objective in.

Both Rune Priests join the blob to bluff, 1 Lone Wolf and 2 grey Hunter packs deploy next to the objective top middle, 1 Lone Wolf and a Grey Hunter pack deploy on the back right objective, along with the platoon command, the blob deploys dead centre, both long fang packs deploy behind the blob.

I combat squad both the Strike Squads in the usual manner, Justicar and 4 guys in a Razorback and 2 Psycannons, 3 guys in the other swords, the Terminators will not be combat squading as I want a strong scoring unit, both OMI join them, I then deploy 5 Strikes (with 2 Psycannons) on the top floor of the ruin with the objective, the Terminators deploy around the objective in the centre, with the Razorbacks to the right both have the combat halfs of the Strikes in, while the second 2 Psycannon Strike squad deploy behind them. The Dreadknight goes in deep strike reserve, with the Storm Raven waiting to move on. The Dreads deploy deep in my deployment zone out of LOS to the whole army.

So my tactical thoughts are that Ive basically taken one objective out the game with the objective on the top floor of the 3 story building, it will take 5 turns of average moving and running for the Grey Hunters on the left flank to get to the ground floor and there are 2 bits of difficult terrain to get through, so the game basically becomes a 3 objective game which suits me as I plan on camping on the objective nearest the centre, while the Terminators push to the far side of the table to capture the second objective which is 6 on and centre of the board, helping the Terminators will be the 2 combat squaded Strike squads in Razorbacks, with the Dreadknight playing interference where needed.

Turn1
I dont seize, so the SW/IG go first:

*All psychic powers are cast successfully unless specified otherwise*

The blob moves up with the Autocannons remaining stationary, as Id deployed out of site to the long fangs they have to shuffle forwards, the Grey Hunters on the left flank try to push forwards but roll snake eyes, as does the lone wolf, on the right flank/centre both Grey Hunters packs move forwards and open up killing 4 Terminators with help from plasma! The blob then open up into the Strikes in the 3 story building and they are wiped out! Failing 5 out of 7 saves! Firstblood gone! The Grey Hunters on the left flank run 1 the Lone wolf moves 4 forwards

GK
I cast misfortune on the closest Grey Hunter pack and Prescience on the Terminators, the Razorbacks move forward as do the Terminators (making sure to stay out of 18 range of the second squads Plasma), I make a mistake in blocking the LOS to the Grey Hunters ahead with my own Razorbacks... Doh! The Dreads peak round the corner of their terrain, Into the shooting phase, the Razorbacks and Termiantors combine fire and smash the Grey Hunters killing them to a man, the Strikes behind fire into the second Grey Hunters pack and kill 3, the Dread which is more centrally based kills 2 from a Long Fang pack and the other chips another from the Grey Hunter pack shot up by the Strikes, these then fail moral and fall back 5.

Turn2

SW/IG
The Vendetta moves in from reserve, the blob shuffles through terrain 2, the Grey Hunters on the left flank move 2and the Lone wolf of that flank moves a further 2, both of these run 2 each (this terrain is really difficult!), the Grey Hunters on the right flank move back and run behind LOS blocking terrain. The Blob then opens up on the Dread that pocked its hull round the terrain and takes a single glancing hit, both long fang packs open up and take another HP off, the Vendetta is then needed, but all the Lascannons miss even with a re-roll!

GK
The Storm Raven moves in from reserve, as does the Dreadknight, the Dreadknight drops next to the servo skull, the Storm Raven gets into melta range of the Vendetta, the Terminators move up towards the objective on the far side of the table (still about 2 movement phases away), as do the Razorbacks, the Lone Wolf on the right flank is the only target in sight for the right flank, so he is blown away in a torrent of fire. The Storm Raven takes out the Vendetta with an explosion! As the Dreads finish off the weakened Long Fang pack, the Dreadknight then flames the Grey Hunters pack hiding from the bulk of my force, 2 are melted and the squad passes moral.

Turn3

SW/IG
The Grey Hunters on the left flank, now abandon the objective on my left, so move back to consolidate with the Platoon Command on the objective at the back of table, the blob moved forwards to support the 4 Grey Hunters cowering behind a ruin (who remain cowering a couple of inches from the objective), they also cast run run run and move 6 towards that objective (now about 15 away!) With limited fire the long fangs after prescience fire into the Storm Raven and get 3 glancing hits! Of which none are jinked! So down goes the Storm Raven, which lands in the middle of nowhere.

GK
Right, so Im in a strong(ish) position, but I need to keep the pressure on! Because that blob of doom is coming! And were only going to get 5 turns in due to time (moving that blob is time consuming work!), so I move the Terminators us and they have no targets so I run them, 1 Razorback moves back to support the 5 Strikes already on the objective in the centre as contingency if the Blob switches objectives, the other Strike squad in Razorback continues to move forward to support the Terminators, shooting is quite limited as the Dreadnoughts and Dreadknight fire into the 4 Grey Hunters and finish them off!

Turn4

SW/IG
The Blob moves and runs towards the objectives and are about 6 away, the Long fangs target the Dreadnought and they strip it last HP off. The Lone Wolf which I had totally forgotten about has moved from the left flank and is now supporting the blob! The Grey Hunters and Platoon Command are totally safe camped on their objective.

GK
I now have some difficult choices to make... that blob is still more or less at full strength and only the Terminators can really take it on and they lost a few from the opening turn, so I decide I have to go for broke (and move the Termiantors up along with the supporting Strikes which jump out there Razorback, the second Razorback dumps the Strikes out on the objective supported by the 2 Psycannon toting Strike squad and moves forwards to get LOS to a couple of Guardsman in Blob squad, the remaining Dread opens the shooting phase and fires into the Long Fangs and kills 1 (missile), everything then unloads into the Blob, and they are reduced by about 15-18! Including a couple of power axes! But more importantly Ive pushed the blob back about 5 from the objective!

Turn5

SW/IG
With the game now in my favour the blob has to move and again run onto the objective about 1 passed it without 4 guys, the lone wolf is also threatening the Strike squad and moves into charge range... just (11), the Long Fangs target the Terminators with blasts and kill 1, the lone wolf then declares a charge on the Strikes, and takes a wound from overwatch, before failing its charge!

GK
With time pushing on! I move pretty quick, with the Termiantors moving up as close as possible to the objective to, The Strikes move up to the objective and the Termiantors blow away about 7 or so Guardsman, so they are no longer contesting and the strikes run onto the objective! For the WIN!

2-1 Win on objectives

Tactical thoughts:

This was a close game that I won because of the blobs size, it was in terrain every turn and got stuck for 2 turns in the terrain it deployed in, it moved only a couple of inches in a few turns as it floundered in difficult terrain, had the blob been able to move further passed the objective, or even assault the Terminators, I wouldnt of been able to get into a position to win or even draw the game!

Misfortune was massive in allowed the Terminators to basically wipe out a Grey Hunter pack on their own and the blob with very little support! Even when the dice almost deserted me in the final turn (only caused about 8 or so wounds from 4 Prescience Psycannons and a couple of Storm Bolters which is about 15wounds on average.. with rerolling a 4+ Inv save most of the them failed! Which gave me plenty of room to run onto the objective knowing the game would end at the end of the turn.

Deploying one of the 4 objectives WAY out of range to the SW/IG army gave me a big chance to win this game, this basically meant with the way the other objectives were placed we were only ever fighting over 1 objective, which I dont think my opponent fully grasped until turn3/4 which by then it was all too late, I had 3 scoring units ready jump on it turn5, with Razorbacks to tank shock if required.

I think this is a key way to beating this type of army, with such a lack of mobility making a objective unobtainable can give you such a massive advantage, especially if your opponent doesnt fully realise (even in deployment) blindly going after an unobtainable objective (or very little hope) will draw a large part of a immobile force away from other objectives. Of course, this wont work against highly mobile armies, as they have the potential to capture objectives from greater distances.

Although the Dreads didnt have any armoured targets they still performed okay, taking out both Long Fang packs and were able to add weight of fire where the army needed it most, showing they still add to the army even against infantry based forces.

The army is working well together, but they have some big tests coming up in the form of triple Helldrakes and the new Tau! (although my opponent still hasnt had to codex, so the game might be delayed a week!)

So do people have any thoughts on how to actually beat a triple Helldrake list, the rest of the list will be 2 flying MCs usually 1 Tzeench (4+ inv and re-roll1 to save) and 1 Nurgle (shrouded), both roll on Biomancy lots of cultists and CSMs with Obliterator support, oh and a Aegis with Comms relay.

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Re: UK Tournament Tactica Diary - Now using a Draigowing

Post by Omenos on Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:11 am

I think someone is being a bit cheesy with their CSM list... Razz

You are going to struggle against those flamers. Those are going to hurt you a lot and you don't have many tools to deal with them reliably (Stormraven yes, Psyfledreads while twin-linked is still less than a 1 in 3 chance to hit let alone wound and getting past it's invun save). I'd either suggest more terminators (those flamers aren't going to get around your 2+ saves) or bubble wrapping your marines but that would involve an almost complete change in the way your list works...

*sigh* Why do people have to insist on bringing rocket launchers to a pistol fight Razz

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Re: UK Tournament Tactica Diary - Now using a Draigowing

Post by DOMIN4TRIX on Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:13 am

Embolden40k wrote:
So do people have any thoughts on how to actually beat a triple Helldrake list, the rest of the list will be 2 flying MCs usually 1 Tzeench (4+ inv and re-roll1 to save) and 1 Nurgle (shrouded), both roll on Biomancy lots of cultists and CSMs with Obliterator support, oh and a Aegis with Comms relay.

Assuming your not going to tailor your list these are a few suggestions, but i'm sure it's nothing you don't already know:

Combat squad the Strikes as you did in the last game, half in the Razor's half in reserve. You don't want exposed 3+ saves on the table to be alpha striked.

You might need prescience twice for this one to skyfire

It's a shame the OMI's are T3 otherwise you could run them with the strikes and tank all the baleflamer wounds on their terminator armour, though if they fail one it will be instant death. This may save you a scoring unit at the loss of a kill-point.

Use squad coherency to space out

play to the mission - if he is relying on cultists to capture objectives then that will be the weak spot.

Don't forget about dark excommunication from the dreadknight

Consider using the stormraven as a transport for some strikes depending on his ability to take it down. It may be more durable than having the squad running on foot.

Make the most of T1 to deplete his army as your knights might be looking up for the rest of the game.

It might be worth going second if you get the choice, with a comms relay he will bring them in T2 so at least your raven will have a free run at one of them (maybe two.... if you get lucky with the multi-melta with the first shot machine spirit the lascannon at another! It's optimistic but something to consider when choosing a drake target.) It's also another of his shooting phases he won't be able to get to your reserved strikes. I'm sure their are pro's and con's with going second but in dealing with helldrakes it might be the best move.

Remember: daemonbane and psyk-out grenades come as standard. You charge a daemon/psyker it fights at I1, you wound a daemon/psyker it has to pass a leadership test or be removed from play.

Another great report - very readable and loved the way you dismissed one of the objectives.


Last edited by DOMIN4TRIX on Wed Apr 10, 2013 1:23 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: UK Tournament Tactica Diary - Now using a Draigowing

Post by Rivan on Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:27 am

DOMIN4TRIX wrote:
Embolden40k wrote:
So do people have any thoughts on how to actually beat a triple Helldrake list, the rest of the list will be 2 flying MCs usually 1 Tzeench (4+ inv and re-roll1 to save) and 1 Nurgle (shrouded), both roll on Biomancy lots of cultists and CSMs with Obliterator support, oh and a Aegis with Comms relay.

Assuming your not going to tailor your list these are a few suggestions, but i'm sure it's nothing you don't already know:

Combat squad the Strikes as you did in the last game, half in the Razor's half in reserve. You don't want exposed 3+ saves on the table to be alpha striked.

You might need prescience twice for this one to skyfire

It's a shame the OMI's are T3 otherwise you could run them with the strikes and tank all the baleflamer wounds on their terminator armour, though if they fail one it will be instant death. This may save you a scoring unit at the loss of a kill-point.

Use squad coherency to space out

play to the mission - if he is relying on cultists to capture objectives then that will be the weak spot.

Don't forget about dark excommunication from the dreadknight

Consider using the stormraven as a transport for some strikes depending on his ability to take it down. It may be more durable than having the squad running on foot.

Make the most of T1 to deplete his army as your knights might be looking up for the rest of the game.

It might be worth going second if you get the choice, with a comms relay he will bring them in T2 so at least your raven will have a free run at one of them (maybe two.... if you get lucky with the multi-melta with the first shot machine spirit the lascannon at another! It's optimistic but something to consider when choosing a drake target.) It's also another of his shooting phases he won't be able to get to your reserved strikes. I'm sure their are pro's and con's with going second but in dealing with helldrakes it might be the best move.

Another great report - very readable and loved the way you dismissed one of the objectives.

+1 Couldn't have said it better myself Smile

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Re: UK Tournament Tactica Diary - Now using a Draigowing

Post by jay170788 on Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:46 am

DOMIN4TRIX wrote:
Remember: daemonbane and psyk-out grenades come as standard. You charge a daemon/psyker it fights at I1, you wound a daemon/psyker it has to pass a leadership test or be removed from play.

I know about the psyk-out grenades and fighting at I1 but can someone point out to me where is states about the wounding of psykers and they are removed following a failed leadership test?

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Re: UK Tournament Tactica Diary - Now using a Draigowing

Post by Embolden40k on Thu Apr 11, 2013 6:43 am

Omenos wrote:I think someone is being a bit cheesy with their CSM list... Razz

You are going to struggle against those flamers. Those are going to hurt you a lot and you don't have many tools to deal with them reliably (Stormraven yes, Psyfledreads while twin-linked is still less than a 1 in 3 chance to hit let alone wound and getting past it's invun save). I'd either suggest more terminators (those flamers aren't going to get around your 2+ saves) or bubble wrapping your marines but that would involve an almost complete change in the way your list works...

*sigh* Why do people have to insist on bringing rocket launchers to a pistol fight Razz

This is probably my worst match up game wise, I don't mind people bringing the dirty lists against me, all the more practice!


DOMIN4TRIX wrote:
Embolden40k wrote:
So do people have any thoughts on how to actually beat a triple Helldrake list, the rest of the list will be 2 flying MCs usually 1 Tzeench (4+ inv and re-roll1 to save) and 1 Nurgle (shrouded), both roll on Biomancy lots of cultists and CSMs with Obliterator support, oh and a Aegis with Comms relay.

Assuming your not going to tailor your list these are a few suggestions, but i'm sure it's nothing you don't already know:

Combat squad the Strikes as you did in the last game, half in the Razor's half in reserve. You don't want exposed 3+ saves on the table to be alpha striked.

You might need prescience twice for this one to skyfire

It's a shame the OMI's are T3 otherwise you could run them with the strikes and tank all the baleflamer wounds on their terminator armour, though if they fail one it will be instant death. This may save you a scoring unit at the loss of a kill-point.

Use squad coherency to space out

play to the mission - if he is relying on cultists to capture objectives then that will be the weak spot.

Don't forget about dark excommunication from the dreadknight

Consider using the stormraven as a transport for some strikes depending on his ability to take it down. It may be more durable than having the squad running on foot.

Make the most of T1 to deplete his army as your knights might be looking up for the rest of the game.

It might be worth going second if you get the choice, with a comms relay he will bring them in T2 so at least your raven will have a free run at one of them (maybe two.... if you get lucky with the multi-melta with the first shot machine spirit the lascannon at another! It's optimistic but something to consider when choosing a drake target.) It's also another of his shooting phases he won't be able to get to your reserved strikes. I'm sure their are pro's and con's with going second but in dealing with helldrakes it might be the best move.

Remember: daemonbane and psyk-out grenades come as standard. You charge a daemon/psyker it fights at I1, you wound a daemon/psyker it has to pass a leadership test or be removed from play.

Another great report - very readable and loved the way you dismissed one of the objectives.

Wow, this is amazing advise and thats for taking the time to go through and type this out! Awesome!

Rather than go through each line with a response, I totally agree with everything you said here mate, especially going after the troops and taking second turn! My plan is basically going to evolve around (depending on the table) hiding from the Oblits with the Terminators and they go chasing the Chaos Marines, while the Strikes play distraction, they will deep strike in and go after the cultists, along with the Dreadknight, the Storm Raven will also try to distract Helldrakes, I will try to find the game on his board egde, hopefully opening up the rear armour of the Helldrakes to the Dreads if they survive/are in range.

In regards to the Psych-out/Daemonbane it will be hard to engineer a charge on flying DPs, but well worth a shout!

Cheers again for the post, it was epic! Smile

[quote="jay170788"]
DOMIN4TRIX wrote:
I know about the psyk-out grenades and fighting at I1 but can someone point out to me where is states about the wounding of psykers and they are removed following a failed leadership test?

Page 54 of the GK codex mate

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Re: UK Tournament Tactica Diary - Now using a Draigowing

Post by jay170788 on Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:02 am

Thanks Embolden!!! My brain decided not to read the psyker part of daemonbane and just assumed it was purely daemons. All this time i've been letting those nid characters off. This helps a lot as this gives us a fail safe if we fail that damned 3D6 force weapon roll against synapse creatures.

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Re: UK Tournament Tactica Diary - Now using a Draigowing

Post by Embolden40k on Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:53 am

No worries Jay, yeah those Nids are nasty!

I tend to shoot them all down before they come close! But this is a great failsafe like you said if they weather the storm, as Shadow in the Warp is nasty, not just on force weapons, but all our powers (not inc Brother Banner)!



So Im facing off against the new Tau tomorrow night, does anyone have ANY experience against the new Tau codex, I got a brief look the codex last night and there a number of things that jump out at me as being great:

Broadsides with Interceptor or Skyfire (Interceptor is probably the better choice due to costs)
Battlesuits with both, having the option of FNP + Drones is awesome! (but expensive)
Commanders in Battlesuits look great
Fire Warriors the bog standard troops look okay
Kroot with attached hounds, which are beasts, so can have massive charge ranges
Hammerheads behind Aegis DFL with 3+ Cover
And of course, the Riptide, it looks a little (not much) over costed at about 200pts for the best loadout (Skyfire, TL Fusion and Ion Accelerator)

Although it was only a brief look at the codex there are number of units that look effective and Im looking forward to seeing how the new dex works on the table!

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Re: UK Tournament Tactica Diary - Now using a Draigowing

Post by Rivan on Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:04 am

I have the new Tau codex and my son has been all over it (he's a Tau player) and from what he's told me, the Tau retains their shooting superiority vs. most armies but are still susceptible to CC.

Watch out for Riptides w/ the Interceptor upgrade. They can fire their Ion accelerator up to 72" (S8 AP2 large blast) at any unit coming in from reserve. I'll provide more stuff to watch out for when I actually get to read it for myself Razz

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Re: UK Tournament Tactica Diary - Now using a Draigowing

Post by Embolden40k on Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:40 am

I've managed to get a copy myself, they make tempting allies

110pts for the HQ and 1 Troop tax!

200 odd pts for a interceptor Broadside unit! Hmmm! MUST RESIST TEMPTATION! :p

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Re: UK Tournament Tactica Diary - Now using a Draigowing

Post by DonFer on Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:25 pm

Tau allies will for certain be viable for us GK. I intend to get them for sky superiority. Broadsides, Commander with Crisis and 1 Riptide can be really nice against flyers.

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Re: UK Tournament Tactica Diary - Now using a Draigowing

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