Fixing Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle

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Fixing Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle

Post by Snowfire on Tue Sep 02, 2008 7:12 am

Ok, so I just had a read through a thread on Warseer about saving Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle, and it got me thinking. I know we already have a few of these threads on here, but this time, I think we need to go further than just posting what we think should happen.

We are a group of hardcore Grey Knight players, and some of us play Sisters of Battle as well. We are all gamers with at least a few games, and quite a bit of combined experience playing with these fine armies.

Why don't we re-write the codex for both of these Armies?

Actually sit down, think about this logically and post proper, well thought out ideas on how these two armies can be updated to 5th edition standard. Come to the best conclusions for each unit, invent new units, replace outdated ideas and bring in new ones. Then someone (with access to Adobe Acrobat, and the knowledge of how to use it) can write it up properly, so it looks professional. And then we send it to Games Workshop, via as many different means as possible, until we get a responce from someone there (Jervis Johnson or Phill Kelly would be preferable) that they have read it and what they think of it.

Who is with me on this? Are we just going to stand by and watch our armies just slide off the shelf and into the Direct Orders area? Or are we going to make a stand, and let Games Workshop know that we play these armies and that they deserve as much attention as every other army. I don't ever want to go into a Games Workshop and pull out my Sisters or Grey Knights for a game and have my opponent not know who they are, just because Games Workshop didn't think they were important enough to promote them in any way.

Do you know what the ultimate shame would be for a Grey Knight/Sister of Battle player would be?

Having our army just become yet another upgrade unit for Space Marine/Imperial Guard armies.

I'm not going to let this happen. Lets make the changes we want to see happen.

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Re: Fixing Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle

Post by Inquisitor Lord on Tue Sep 02, 2008 7:24 am

you nearly had me jump out my seat and cheer brother with that post and yes i am with you

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Re: Fixing Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle

Post by Snowfire on Tue Sep 02, 2008 7:38 am

Thanks, I'm glad to see that the feeling I had when writing all that, does pass over to the people who are reading it.

Also, cheers for engraving it. Makes it easier to find.

I think I might try and sort out a definate plan of attack. We'll start with the HQ Units in both armies, as they make for a good starting point.

Example:

Inquisitor Lords (Not including the one above) - Need to be Strength 4 as a minimum. How to explain in the fluff? Easy - They get into alot of fights chasing the bad guys, and so have been wounded a fair few times - enter the Augmetic Upgrades. Inquisitor Lords (and Inquisitors, but we will hit them when we do Elites) have all had their fair share of Augmetic upgrade surgery, giving them a higher strength than your average Guardsman.

Start posting your ideas.

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Re: Fixing Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle

Post by SIRSEAN on Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:08 am

I'm with you too, in fact, I said a lot of times that GW should release a new Inquisition codex, with all the ordos together.

about ideas... well, you just have to look at the forums, because we already post tons of ideas to improve our army, and I think that all of us agree with:

-we are the emperor's finest, so we should be very powerful, and have acces to all the equipment of the space marines.

-an inquisitor is a hard man, a man who had seen a lot of horrible things, so, should be very strong and hard to kill

-our enemies are demons, yes, but chaos too, so, we should be able to fight chaos as well as demons.

just my opinion...

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Re: Fixing Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle

Post by Inquisitor Lord on Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:46 am

and your opinion is valid brother

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Re: Fixing Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle

Post by Spartan on Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:21 am

No I am Sparticus.....oops wrong place my emotions just got the better of me.

On a serious note though I am with your 100%

and if we are looking at the HQ I think the custom HQ is the best idea, here is the link;

http://greyknights.forumotion.com/puritan-grey-knight-discussion-f18/create-your-own-gk-hero-t425.htm?highlight=hero

My knowledge is limited but I will give what I can where I can.

EDIT

Also have a look at hunters post as his club are doing a similar thing so maybe we can save a little time and use their ideas.
http://greyknights.forumotion.com/puritan-grey-knight-discussion-f18/good-news-for-gray-knighrs-atleast-for-me-t468.htm

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Re: Fixing Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle

Post by Zaithius on Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:15 pm

I am in total agreement with you snow.

One thing I think they should change is our pt value. Our basic troops should not cost 25 pts per model unless they give us a 5 on initiative as opposed to a 4, to allow GK players to have the option to be a more offensive close combat force, and still have the SB, as opposed to being a counter based close combat force. Also I think for the 25 pts per model frags/meltas should be included in our basic equipment or at least a cheap cost per model upgrade to get them. We are supposed to be the best eilte kill everything force, and yet only our justicar can get frags/meltas? A lot of basic troops get frags, and I think as a counter close combat army, frags should come standard with the amount of pts we pay per model.

Just a thought, as I play more in my newly joined hobby league this Monday, I am sure I'll be flowing with more ideas.

Lets make this revolution happen, and get our army back! Twisted Evil

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Re: Fixing Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle

Post by hunter on Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:32 pm

i will try to keep you poted as how our club is fixing deamonhunters.
BUT
in all things fair the codex or codexes shodend be modefied to change it but to fix what was broken with the new cms/deamon codexes and the 5th edition rule change.

so far agis has been adrest , we still need to work out a simple way to apply rights of exorsisem and banishment

assasins are easy to fix , simply use the old IC rules.

again things have to be fair to evryone , eaven the ruines powers

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Re: Fixing Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle

Post by hunter on Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:57 pm

Zaithius wrote:I am in total agreement with you snow.

One thing I think they should change is our pt value. Our basic troops should not cost 25 pts per model unless they give us a 5 on initiative as opposed to a 4, to allow GK players to have the option to be a more offensive close combat force, and still have the SB, as opposed to being a counter based close combat force. Also I think for the 25 pts per model frags/meltas should be included in our basic equipment or at least a cheap cost per model upgrade to get them. We are supposed to be the best eilte kill everything force, and yet only our justicar can get frags/meltas? A lot of basic troops get frags, and I think as a counter close combat army, frags should come standard with the amount of pts we pay per model.

Just a thought, as I play more in my newly joined hobby league this Monday, I am sure I'll be flowing with more ideas.

Lets make this revolution happen, and get our army back! Twisted Evil
i do not disagree thad GK especialy PAGK are a tad costly and lack flexibility.
but our basic troops are AS good as the elites in other armies.
i want to see what the new codex space marines has to say befor making any sujestions.
if we muck around with our wargear we have to give up somthing in exchange such as fixt 5/10 squads for our troops like other current codexes . do we want to give up that ?

oh after plaqying with space wolves a GK army isent that bad , the spacepuppies have similar problems as a GK army

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Re: Fixing Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle

Post by Snowfire on Wed Sep 03, 2008 1:08 am

Ok, lets kick in into gear and get started on HQ choices.

Grand Master - Stats are actually really good. Just one problem:
Points cost - Requires reduction

Brother Captain - Not bad on the stat line either apart from 2 flaws:
He only has one wound - Needs to be increased to 2
Points cost - Requires reduction

Other than this, our HQ choices for Pure Grey Knights are solid.

Inquisitor Lord - Cheap as chips, paltry stat line, but can take a retinue. Possible Upgrades:
Augmetic Surgery - Been playing round with this in my head. what if you can buy upgrades to his body? Cybernetic eye gives BS 5, Body upgrade could give Strength 4 etc?

Henchmen - They all seem pretty solid as they are: No Changes needed.

These are my ideas so far for HQ's, please let me know what you think and any changes you think should be made. And possible point costs.

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Re: Fixing Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle

Post by Spartan on Wed Sep 03, 2008 3:27 am

Snowfire wrote:Ok, lets kick in into gear and get started on HQ choices.

Grand Master - Stats are actually really good. Just one problem:
Points cost - Requires reduction

Brother Captain - Not bad on the stat line either apart from 2 flaws:
He only has one wound - Needs to be increased to 2
Points cost - Requires reduction

Instead of changing what we have could we not introduce a Battle-Captain or Vetran Brother-Captain with 2 wounds and worth 100 pts also I would suggest he gets either a BS of 5 or and I of 5 but not both, so he is halfway between Brother Captain and Grand Master, maybe just call him a Master Captain or Brother Master or Master.

Sorry can't comment on Inquisitors as I dont really look at them.

Hunter wrote:i want to see what the new codex space marines has to say befor making any sujestions

A very good point hunter as we can take the cost and stuf of space marines and add a little on, and use them as our basis as that is what GK are based on just made better, so thats is what we should do, take the SM stats and cost and make a little better and a little more expensive.

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Re: Fixing Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle

Post by hunter on Wed Sep 03, 2008 3:59 am

[quote="SpartanA very good point hunter as we can take the cost and stuf of space marines and add a little on, and use them as our basis as that is what GK are based on just made better, so thats is what we should do, take the SM stats and cost and make a little better and a little more expensive.[/quote]

i want to see what kind of goodies they give for free for basic troops and how the marines will be organised so far it looks like 5/10 squads

oh and you shoud know , in our club we agreed that damonhunter force weapons do an extra 1d3 wounds to deamons on a sussesful psychic test

now dont get me wrong i would love to see the deamonhunter get a massive powrboost but no way in hell will anybody will let m play with such an overpowerd custom codex

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Re: Fixing Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle

Post by Spartan on Wed Sep 03, 2008 4:04 am

hunter wrote:now dont get me wrong i would love to see the deamonhunter get a massive powrboost but no way in hell will anybody will let m play with such an overpowerd custom codex

Exactly we have to be carefull and must remain realistic, it is about bringing our force inline with everyone else not ahead.

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Re: Fixing Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle

Post by NemesisForce on Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:05 am

I agree with Spartan. That's why I've never been too keen on pushing our own rules on GW. However, threads like this is important to voice our concerns.

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Re: Fixing Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle

Post by Aeddon on Fri Sep 05, 2008 11:24 am

Fantastic Idea Brother Snowfire! Once I have more time I will try tio write out some good pieces to add to this new "codex" of ours. I have to say though I disagree with Brother Sirsean when he says combine the Ordos into one codex. This would seriously limit the ammount of content for each Ordo and I personally believe our noble members would suffer for it.

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Re: Fixing Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle

Post by hunter on Sat Sep 06, 2008 4:32 am

is anybody elst play testing new deamonhunter idears?

i recomend using what has allready been done such as the GK apocalyps datasheet.

a sujestion , expanding access to wargear of brother capitans and justicars at reduce cost for single woud units like 3/4 edition codexes

should gray knights be able to preforme acts of fate ?, fluff wies it possible but evrybody will HATE US if it isent done right.

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Re: Fixing Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle

Post by NemesisForce on Sat Sep 06, 2008 8:33 am

Naw, IMHO I think Acts of Faith should strictly stay a Sisters thing. It's what makes them really unique. Snowfire, the augmetics idea for the Inquisitors is brilliant. Not to mention fluffy as well. Aeddon, If I'm not mistaken rumor has it that it will be a combined Inquisition book. If they do a 144 page treatment like they are for Space Marines I think they will be able to do both (or all three if they add Ordos Xenos) decent justice.

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Re: Fixing Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle

Post by Snowfire on Sun Sep 07, 2008 12:07 am

Acts of faith are definately a Sisters only thing.

I was actually having a read of their codex today. And all it needs is a quick update of some of the rules. Everything else is pretty shiny with them. Maybe introduce the upgraded Inquisitor to the codex, but other than that, they are all good.

Daemonhunters on the other hand......

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Re: Fixing Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle

Post by hunter on Sun Sep 07, 2008 2:56 am

i was just looking for a way to give back some of the knights power with ot resorting to demonic instebilety in wich most chaos players hate.
perhaps somthing similar to fantesy stile magic atleast in terms of applying gray knight powers.

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Re: Fixing Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle

Post by Klomster on Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:28 am

http://greyknights.forumotion.com/puritan-grey-knight-discussion-f18/our-suggestion-for-the-new-daemonhunters-grey-knights-codex-t163.htm

This thread has tons and tons of ideas for grey knights.

Some are good, some are bad, some are just for fun.

If you really are into this, most people here have already posted alot of ideas here.

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Re: Fixing Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle

Post by Snowfire on Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:51 am

Cheers Klomster, I knew someone would be able to find that one on here.

Time to start reading it.

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Re: Fixing Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle

Post by Snowfire on Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:57 pm

Hi All

Ok so I have started a (VERY) rough draft of the info for the new codex.

What follows is a entry for the Inquisitor Lord

http://www.mediafire.com/file/aaaxaabauaa/Daemonhunters Codex Rewrite.doc

Please read and tell me what you think.

EDIT: I do realise that I missed a little bit from the Inquisitor Lord stating that they can take any equipment allowed from the armoury, this has been amended in the copy on my hard drive.

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Re: Fixing Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle

Post by hunter on Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:47 pm

Snowfire wrote:Hi All

Ok so I have started a (VERY) rough draft of the info for the new codex.

What follows is a entry for the Inquisitor Lord

http://www.mediafire.com/file/aaaxaabauaa/Daemonhunters Codex Rewrite.doc

Please read and tell me what you think.

EDIT: I do realise that I missed a little bit from the Inquisitor Lord stating that they can take any equipment allowed from the armoury, this has been amended in the copy on my hard drive.
not too bad , mind if i link this on our club's forum for evaluation ?

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Re: Fixing Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle

Post by Snowfire on Tue Sep 09, 2008 5:14 pm

Go for it, just remember, it is work in progress

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Re: Fixing Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle

Post by Snowfire on Tue Sep 09, 2008 6:25 pm

Ok, now for version 2.0

Now featuring the Grey Knight Hero!!!!

I know that this is going to be a huge point of interest and discussion over the names and point costs, so as before, feel free to use and abuse at your leisure and again, tell me what needs fixing.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/hednmhnvzsl/Daemonhunters Codex Rewrite.doc

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Re: Fixing Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle

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