GK Rule Clarifications:

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GK Rule Clarifications:

Post by Zealadin on Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:59 pm

Ok so I visited my local GWS store last night, and admittadely none of them actually collect GK's, but they are all pretty excited to see some coming through the works..

Anyway, I was getting suggestions of placing PAGK into a Rhino (as their transport). (Rather than in a LR)
As far as I knew I thought PAGK couldn't take these as a transport? This lefting me scratching my head, as I can't find rules that state they can't use them, however the GWS employee stated that if they where in the transport section of the book they could be taken.... the only issue I had is that IST's have a special rule allowing them to chose a transport and PAGK's DON'T....

Really quite confused now, I'm currently looking at feilding a pure GK army, with the possibility of adding some SoB (lawl) depending on how my games go, and whether I feel a cheaper supporting unit may be useful (personally just love pure GK's though)

I heard last edition that a PAGK army using two LR at 1000 points could be effective (water warrior army) and quite like the idea, although I've been told with current edition having two LR would be cheesy at 1k points due to how hard it is to kill vehicles nowa'days, and not having enough units(troops) I don't want to be a cheese army, if I did I'd be playing SM...

I also like the idea of a dread, but don't want to stack my army full of them, its just not something GK would do, seems to me that having a single one in an army is stretching it let alone two. The only advantage is they are good anti tank, and cheaper than LR'ers but can't transport units....

Can anyone clarify some of these ideas/issues for me, the GWS guy promised he is going to read the codex and talk to me again next week, and we are pretty good mates since I go in a few times a week normally, but yea would like some veteran ideas.

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Re: GK Rule Clarifications:

Post by Constantine on Thu Oct 30, 2008 6:14 pm

Those darn GW guys eh?! 99.9% of them are awesome, but......
Sometimes they do more harm than good! LOL
I once had a GW employee get very upset with me when I didn't believe him when he said GKs could have Jump packs, He even pointed out a blister that had a Gk in it and explained to me that his back pack was a jump pack Rolling Eyes
I chose to change the subject. Any way.....
PAGKs can not take a rhino, they can however board one that was used by one of your ST units.
Taking 2 LRs isn't that cheesy, it does however eat up a lot of points that could have been spent on scoring units. We are nearlt always outnumbered (but never out classed) so I don't understand how any tactic we employ could be considered cheesy scratch
I'm with you on the Dread issue, GKs in my opinion don't want to be entombed in the mighty dreadnaught armour, they want to be burried in the depths of titan and have their souls join the Emperor at the battle at he end of times, where they will once and for all destroy the forces of Chaos !!! cheers
hope this helped Brother.

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Re: GK Rule Clarifications:

Post by Zealadin on Thu Oct 30, 2008 6:27 pm

Awesome thanks, thats what I was thinking, and I tried to mention it to him, but yea Razz I think they all just see GK's as a chapter of SM and try and apply the same rules

They are great guys, but basically they all stated how awesome GK's are while in the same breath mentioning how they know no one who collects them, nor have ever actually done any themselves.

I find it kinda strange though because often the GK shelves in my local go mysteriously empty, so there must be some fellow Grey Knights out there

thanks again Brother!!

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Re: GK Rule Clarifications:

Post by NemesisForce on Thu Oct 30, 2008 8:47 pm

Hate to break it but GK's still can't use dedicated transports. The new FAQ for the rulebook clarifies this. It says that if your CODEX states that transports can only be purchased by certain units, then only those units can use it.

Ah, jump-packing GK's. What a dream that would be.

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Re: GK Rule Clarifications:

Post by Constantine on Thu Oct 30, 2008 9:19 pm

NemesisForce wrote:Hate to break it but GK's still can't use dedicated transports. The new FAQ for the rulebook clarifies this. It says that if your CODEX states that transports can only be purchased by certain units, then only those units can use it.

Ah, jump-packing GK's. What a dream that would be.

Crap!! Sorry for the mis-informaition Zealadin!!!! Embarassed

I know Nemesis Force! My heart skipped a beat when he said that GKs have jump packs!!!

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Re: GK Rule Clarifications:

Post by Zealadin on Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:03 pm

Haha don't worry I'm not that much of a noob, if he tried to tell me that I think I would have had to find a new store after 10 years Very Happy

That being said.... PAGK's moving 12" /drools

Whats your opinion on using LR's though?

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Re: GK Rule Clarifications:

Post by For the Emperor on Fri Oct 31, 2008 12:36 pm

Zealadin wrote:Haha don't worry I'm not that much of a noob, if he tried to tell me that I think I would have had to find a new store after 10 years Very Happy

That being said.... PAGK's moving 12" /drools

Whats your opinion on using LR's though?
/drools pagk moving 12" inside the Land Raider jumping out another 2" then shooting and charging. I want that one!

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Re: GK Rule Clarifications:

Post by Zealadin on Sun Nov 02, 2008 5:34 pm

Well the good thing about the LR and its 14/14/14 armour is the fact that when a tank doesn't move in that turn, your models can jump out, shoot then assault!
Altho apparently because of the nature of a LR even if it does move you can jump out and assault instead of jumping out and shooting.

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Re: GK Rule Clarifications:

Post by NemesisForce on Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:50 pm

There's no 'instead of' Zealadin. For GK's you can move, jump out, shoot and assault from an LR.

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Re: GK Rule Clarifications:

Post by For the Emperor on Tue Nov 04, 2008 1:03 pm

Zealadin wrote:Well the good thing about the LR and its 14/14/14 armour is the fact that when a tank doesn't move in that turn, your models can jump out, shoot then assault!
Altho apparently because of the nature of a LR even if it does move you can jump out and assault instead of jumping out and shooting.

You can actually move the tank 12", jump out, shoot and then assault using the FAQ Daemonhunters, 'Assault Vehicle' rule.

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Re: GK Rule Clarifications:

Post by Coyote on Sun Nov 23, 2008 2:41 pm

If you want to avoid this cheesiness of two land raiders (though I don't think it's cheesy at all) and stay within the fluff then why not go for one landraider and one dreadnought. Maybe I'm wrong, but the idea of using a pure grey knights force is a little bit of a stretch. After all that's part of the reason why you can induct other armies into your own. The grey knights are the largest chapter of space marines but they are spread very thin. Anyway that's my take on it. I play an almost pure GK army and I've got 3 dreads and working on 2 LR's. If you stuck to the fluff then you might find yourself with very little AT.

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Re: GK Rule Clarifications:

Post by Constantine on Sun Nov 23, 2008 2:57 pm

Coyote45 wrote:If you want to avoid this cheesiness of two land raiders (though I don't think it's cheesy at all) and stay within the fluff then why not go for one landraider and one dreadnought. Maybe I'm wrong, but the idea of using a pure grey knights force is a little bit of a stretch. After all that's part of the reason why you can induct other armies into your own. The grey knights are the largest chapter of space marines but they are spread very thin. Anyway that's my take on it. I play an almost pure GK army and I've got 3 dreads and working on 2 LR's. If you stuck to the fluff then you might find yourself with very little AT.

It's true the fluff is limiting at times Sad but for the most part it is what attracts me to the GKs, and for that reason I am willing to limit my AT capabilities Shocked
I don't think multiple LRs are cheesy, or un-fluffworthy for that matter, it is the multiple Dreads that does not fit with the fluff. GKs do not want to live for ever, they want to be laid to rest on Titan so that their souls can join the Emperor for the end of times type battle that is sure to come sunny
Of course with a little creativity almost any army configuration can be justified, and that's fine Very Happy. It's all about personal interpretation in the end, it just happens to be that our interpretations differ tongue

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Re: GK Rule Clarifications:

Post by Gothmog on Sun Nov 23, 2008 3:45 pm

Coyote45 wrote: The grey knights are the largest chapter of space marines but they are spread very thin.

Where is that information found? Is there any hard numbers of the actual size of the chapter? I know most SM chapters should be around 1000, and accordingn to some fluff I read awhile back there is on chapter (the death wing??) that sits around 5-6K...

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Re: GK Rule Clarifications:

Post by Constantine on Sun Nov 23, 2008 3:53 pm

Gothmog wrote:
Coyote45 wrote: The grey knights are the largest chapter of space marines but they are spread very thin.

Where is that information found? Is there any hard numbers of the actual size of the chapter? I know most SM chapters should be around 1000, and accordingn to some fluff I read awhile back there is on chapter (the death wing??) that sits around 5-6K...

I'm not sure where the GK stats came from scratch . Most SM Chapters are 1000, strong following the Horus Heresy and the implementation of Guileman's codex. Chapters such as the Black Templar are rumoured to be bigger because they are a crusading chapter and their true numbers are unknown. The Death Wing is the first company of the Dark Angels Chapter, I have not heard or read anything about their size being 5-6K, that does seem a little large for a first company.
As for the GKs, I know that we are widely spread across the galaxy, so a true count would be challenging to attain. I am interested to read what our Brothers can add to this thread.

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Re: GK Rule Clarifications:

Post by Coyote on Sun Nov 23, 2008 4:21 pm

I thought that I had read something about the size of the GK chapter in the codex but after a cursory glance I'm not finding it. I do know that I read it somewhere and the number was believed to be around 3000. However do to their need to be anywhere they are spread very thin which is why the GK's aren't organized in a traditional manner and this is why , fluffwise, it is rare to see a pure gk force. That is at least how I have taken, but I still pretty much play pure GK.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Grey_Knights

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Re: GK Rule Clarifications:

Post by Zealadin on Sun Nov 23, 2008 6:18 pm

I also recall something about the numbers being around 3000, but then as a few people have stated who would know with most of the order out battleing the daemon.

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Re: GK Rule Clarifications:

Post by For the Emperor on Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:27 am

I like to take a bit of everything. But I try to go halves of defense and offense.
I read the GW Website on how Grey Knight deploy and I remember that they use a GrandMaster with Grey Knight Terminators Deepstriking, while the PAGK advance, they should take fire away from the the PAGK.
And also in the white dwarf (daemonhunter release), they said Dreadnoughts and Land Raiders were the form of GK anti-tank. So I guess there nothing wrong with Dreadnoughts and LR's.

So basically everyone is ignoring the DS form of deployment.

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Re: GK Rule Clarifications:

Post by Klomster on Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:02 am

I do.

There is one thing i always say in my head before a game.

DON'T DEEPSTRIKE!!!!

Becouse you die, miserably, and fail!

At least i do!

I have of course deep striked some times, and once or twice it was actually useful.

But don't deepstrike. NEVER.

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Re: GK Rule Clarifications:

Post by Coyote on Wed Dec 03, 2008 6:48 am

for the emperor wrote:I like to take a bit of everything. But I try to go halves of defense and offense.
I read the GW Website on how Grey Knight deploy and I remember that they use a GrandMaster with Grey Knight Terminators Deepstriking, while the PAGK advance, they should take fire away from the the PAGK.
And also in the white dwarf (daemonhunter release), they said Dreadnoughts and Land Raiders were the form of GK anti-tank. So I guess there nothing wrong with Dreadnoughts and LR's.

So basically everyone is ignoring the DS form of deployment.


You're definitely right on DSing terminators taking fire away from the PAGK's. Unfortunately that's just too many points to be using for that purpose IMHO.

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Re: GK Rule Clarifications:

Post by For the Emperor on Wed Dec 03, 2008 7:56 am

I personally wouldn't mind if you'd like me to summarise the white dwarf copy of; special deployment under the microscope, specifically Deepstrike. Actually I will regardless.
Personally I never DS either, I prefer the confinements of a LRC.
To keep this on track, it's a different approach from the Land Raider, as Zeladin pointed out, he didnt want a cheese army.

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Re: GK Rule Clarifications:

Post by Zealadin on Wed Dec 03, 2008 7:08 pm

Yea well alot of the GWS guys thinks that two LR is pretty cheesy in anything from 1000-1500 points, and the other choice is teleportation which from practically every source I've heard is neigh on useless these days.

Considering the lore/fluff hopefully our next codex fixes teleportation to make it more viable.
I mean seriously GK should be able to teleport in, throw down fire, and then charge whats left, as long as they are within range to do so.

Especially considering only FA PAGK or GKT can do it....

/end rant

Would definately be intereested in the info from the white dwarf however!

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Re: GK Rule Clarifications:

Post by Constantine on Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:06 am

for the emperor wrote:I personally wouldn't mind if you'd like me to summarise the white dwarf copy of; special deployment under the microscope, specifically Deepstrike. Actually I will regardless.
Personally I never DS either, I prefer the confinements of a LRC.
To keep this on track, it's a different approach from the Land Raider, as Zeladin pointed out, he didnt want a cheese army.

A summary would be helpful Brother study
I do not think that having 2 LRs is cheesy, whats cheesy about it, we are scrambling to find anti armour Rolling Eyes

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Re: GK Rule Clarifications:

Post by Klomster on Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:36 am

2 land raiders is not cheesy!

7 are. (Yes, i've heard deamonhunters can have 7 land raiders)

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Re: GK Rule Clarifications:

Post by NemesisForce on Thu Dec 04, 2008 10:00 am

The cheese-factor for multiple 'Raiders in a pure GK army shouldn't even be considered. As it stands, we only have four unit choices so our options on what to take are very limited. Take into consideration as well the two things our foot troops lack the most: mobility and a/t firepower. LR's fill both these needs at one, albeit expensive, price. Since our foot troops are expensive as well, taking an LR drastically reduces options elsewhere. If you explain all this, any rational opponent 'should' at least grudgingly agree that multiple LR's is not as cheesy as would seem in a GK army.

I've only DS'd my Termies once. After coming down when and where I wanted them they went on to successfully take out the objective. Still, I've been reluctant to DS them ever since. A squad of Termies sharing their love from the front door of a LR is much safer and much more effective.

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Re: GK Rule Clarifications:

Post by For the Emperor on Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:49 pm

Constantine wrote:
for the emperor wrote:I personally wouldn't mind if you'd like me to summarise the white dwarf copy of; special deployment under the microscope, specifically Deepstrike. Actually I will regardless.
Personally I never DS either, I prefer the confinements of a LRC.
To keep this on track, it's a different approach from the Land Raider, as Zeladin pointed out, he didnt want a cheese army.

A summary would be helpful Brother study
I do not think that having 2 LRs is cheesy, whats cheesy about it, we are scrambling to find anti armour Rolling Eyes
Your wish is my Command Brother, Done.
Oh and cheese is probably the sheer number sometimes taken. And the fact some armies like us struggle against Armour, Namely ORKS lol. Is not cheese beardy, just a bit of cheese.

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