Epimetheus' collaborative creative writing project.

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Epimetheus' collaborative creative writing project.

Post by Constantine on Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:24 am




Many of us that have read the Pandorax novel were sorely disappointed in the novel as a whole, and dare I say outraged at the fate of Epimetheus. As such, it was suggested that as a collective we could work together to remedy the travesties created in the Pandorax novel and write our own epilogue to put things right.

That being said, I was thinking that we can start off where Abandon leaves the chamber where Epimetheus is suspended on warp forged chains, his tongue removed, eyes and mouth sewn shut with daemon sinew, black carapace and progenoid gland removed with a blank grafted to his back... Yes, this will be quite a challenge! Razz

I am at work right now so will check in later for more discussion if anyone is interested.

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Re: Epimetheus' collaborative creative writing project.

Post by Thunder Shark on Mon Apr 13, 2015 2:56 pm

I'm in.

how should we brainstrom?

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Re: Epimetheus' collaborative creative writing project.

Post by Constantine on Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:41 pm

I suppose we can use this thread as the WIP section and start to think about what we would like to see, and what the challenges are.
I haven't written a story in years, so this may take a while for me to get up to speed.

Here is a pretty helpful article on writing short stories that I found with a Google search:
http://jerz.setonhill.edu/writing/creative1/shortstory/

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Re: Epimetheus' collaborative creative writing project.

Post by Thunder Shark on Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:03 am

That was helpfully article.

Just an idea should we have some people(vague on purpose) trying to get to Epimetheus?

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Re: Epimetheus' collaborative creative writing project.

Post by Aubec le noir on Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:14 am

First things first.
We have to answer some questions :
- Where is Epimetheus ... well where could he be in the Eye of Terror... in which Deamon world ?
- How could GKs and Inquisition track down the faint traces of Epimetheus Journey with Abaddon ?
- Who would be the protagonists of that novel ?
... and some more that can cross your minds brothers !! ... feel free to join and participate !

Then we have to create a synopsis... some timeline and guideline to link our small texts together.

Then every GK who wants to participate can write a text... I wrote a 256 pages novel with a dear friend some years ago, in the L5R universe, and one of the pleasure of the exercise was the surprises we made for each other ... it was fun, even though we discussed any desagrements, and when we agreed the chapter was included in the final text... It was fun and efficient ... i propose that procedure...

Then every participant read and read again all the chapters, to get rid of the mistakes : orthographic faults and mistakes from the fluff. the principle here is : there's more in 2, 6, 10 heads than in one.

Then after multiples transferts back and forth, and equally multiples corrections i suggests that one of us write the final text to have a text with the same writing style from the beginning to the End... that will be happier i hope, and wish !! Razz Razz

BTW : i'm in too !! Razz Razz

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Re: Epimetheus' collaborative creative writing project.

Post by Thunder Shark on Tue Apr 14, 2015 8:41 am

I feel like another Grey Knight or Malleus Inquisitor should be the main character.

I feel like Abbadon would hid in in the eye or deep in the warp. But maybe not.

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Re: Epimetheus' collaborative creative writing project.

Post by Constantine on Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:48 am

Good stuff so the key here is to stay organized.
This thread is for that purpose... Structure and organization.
That being said, let's work on one question at a time.
I will post a question, we will work on it, come to agreement and move on.

Question #1:
What does Epimetheus want?

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Re: Epimetheus' collaborative creative writing project.

Post by Thunder Shark on Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:29 pm



I feel like he most likely wants to escape and avoid falling to chaos.

I also speculate that he wants to be rescued but is unsure about it happening.

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Re: Epimetheus' collaborative creative writing project.

Post by Constantine on Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:59 pm

So escape is the goal. This will do for a start to answering question #1, but we will need to flush it out a little more. Perhaps the below will help with that.

The next question is:
What morally significant actions has Epimetheus taken towards attaining this goal?
This question requires that there is a driving force behind his will to escape. There seemed to be some internal turmoil in regards to reuniting with either the GK or Dark Angels. Perhaps we can expand on the answer to question #1 to add some depth and interest to Epimetheus' desire to escape, something more for the readers to buy into/engage with.

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Re: Epimetheus' collaborative creative writing project.

Post by Thunder Shark on Tue Apr 14, 2015 2:41 pm

Your description implies his is in suspended animation. Maybe he will have try to psychically contact potential rescuers or destroy the wrap chains with allow him to to cut the sowings of. Maybe his psychic distress signals came across to both the Inquisition and the Dark Angels.

Question of my own should and how will he recover his tongue?

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Re: Epimetheus' collaborative creative writing project.

Post by Constantine on Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:41 pm

My intention was not to describe him as being in suspended animation. As per the Pandorax novel, Epimetheus is suspended on warp forged chains with a blank grafted to his back etc... while Abadon bides his time to break him. I am not trying to change any of the events leading up to this point.

What I am trying to do is develop what is motivating Epimetheus other than simply excaping his captor? There needs to be more to it in order for it to be interesting to read. study

In response to your ideas, Epimetheus can not use his psychic powers to call for help, or at all for that matter. He is effectively stripped of his psychic powers by the three blanks in the room with him.

That being said, your ideas/questions are good, but a little premature at this time, we need to stay focussed on the questions.

Epimetheus must escape not only because he does not want to be a prisoner, but also for some other more compelling/suspensefull purpose.....

- The Grey Knights are going to attack the DA because they believe that the DA have captured Epimetheus to interogate him and learn more of Luther's betrayal of the Chapter. The GK believe this because Abadon has planted these ideas in order to turn the allies against themselves, and only Epimetheus can stop this horrible confrontation from happening.

- Perhaps Epimetheus must track down Fabius Bile and retrieve his progenoid gland before Fabiuos can use it to create monstrosities with the Emperors genetic material.

I drew both of these ideas from material in Pandorax, we don't have to reinvent the wheel, just try to maintain consistency and add intrigue. Does this help to make sense of what I am asking for?

Once we determine the WHY, then we can move onto the fun surrounding the HOW!!! Twisted Evil

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Re: Epimetheus' collaborative creative writing project.

Post by Aubec le noir on Wed Apr 15, 2015 1:56 am

imho Epimetheus can do NOTHING ! He is warp-bound, blanked and heavily tortured every single day ! Evil or Very Mad
What he wants is to stay pure against every procedures and rituals preceeded by Abaddon, and if not he wants to escape through DEATH ! Evil or Very Mad
I don't think he hopes to be rescued... Hope is a double edge blade... Hope could be used by Abaddon to torture and break him !

So I agree that the "heroes" of the story must be some other charaters, but including - even if they are intel sources - Epimetheus Pilot and some DA and GK

Assuming that Epimetheus was a famous Fallen, why not Luther himself or one of his lieutnant, i agree that there will be trouble between GK and DA, but both are no fools, i don't think that this will become total warfare ! Evil or Very Mad

Where is Epimetheus ? Definitively in the eye of Terror i think, but the Eye is Huge so where exactly ??
maybe we could use what was alredy created ? Gereon ? or the Deamon worlds travelled by Alaric ? i don't know yet but every proposition will be good ! Wink

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Re: Epimetheus' collaborative creative writing project.

Post by Constantine on Wed Apr 15, 2015 10:07 am

This is getting to sound like it will be a novel trilogy more than a short story!!! Razz

Great points though brother... Not to sure I agree that Epimetheus would resign himself to defeat and wish for death so easily though. He is VERY patient, he did guard the emerald cave for 10,000 years. Shocked

I was thinking that a little acid from his mouth gland could dissolve the daemon sinew used to sew his mouth shut, then he could use the same to work on the chains. When one hand is free he could kill the blank grafted to his back by breaking its neck. This could lessen the muting of his psychic abilities and allow him to kill the other two blanks. With his full abilities restored he can then set to escaping from Abbadon. Easy!!! Wink Razz

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Re: Epimetheus' collaborative creative writing project.

Post by Aubec le noir on Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:07 am

do you really think that Abaddon would do such a mistake as forget the acid glands of a SM ?? Suspect Suspect
I don't think so ! Evil or Very Mad
Extraction of Epimetheus have to come from the outside...
But you have a good point though... Epimetheus is strong and patient enough to endure such a treatement quite a long time... time to concentrate just one tiny thought, one faint dream and threw it through the Eye and through the Galaxy to his Inquisition Pilot for example ...
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Re: Epimetheus' collaborative creative writing project.

Post by Klomster on Wed Apr 15, 2015 6:01 pm

Just to mention, i have not read the book, nor do i plan to do so. It's mostly since i don't like reading books, since i strain my hands doing that.

"Epimetheus is suspended on warp forged chains, his tongue removed, eyes and mouth sewn shut with daemon sinew, black carapace and progenoid gland removed with a blank grafted to his back."

The problems. Not to mention Abbadons repeated visits and some others whom has access, like Fabius.

So how to overcome this?

What tools does he have at his disposal?
http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/8/84/Astartesorgans.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130304022124
Primarily his implants.

This person is a grey knight, he is rather badass, as confirmed by the statements mentioned in this thread earlier.
So we could get a bit gritty.

If you move your lips, you can feel that you have rather good control over them. You can for example place them between your front teeth.
While biting of your own lips is a scary thought, being tortured is as well, so either biting of the deamon sinew inside his mouth or simply biting the lips of entirely.

Yes, this is not child friendly.

The Larramans organ would prevent profuse bleeding from the mouth wound.
This way, he could free up his mouth, which we all know contain the Betchers gland's acid spit.
Also, being a grey knight, he knows that warp matter has a poor reaction to the faith in the emperor, or simply prayer, our grey knight could perhaps weaken the chains, perhaps even bless his saliva in some weird way.

While this is not overly convincing, nor is the thought of a grey knight falling to chaos. I think the suspension of disbelief is not that bad.

So, the weakened chains should now be possible to break, resulting in him being able to kill the blunt on his back.
Perhaps ripping open the stitches on his eyes.

Now there is a new problem. He is in the torture chamber...... where?

Is it a doom fortress on top of a mountain? A ship? Sludge covered nurgle world?

I'd say it's hard to continue the problem solving without knowing this.
I'd say it's not fitting for him to "send a distress signal".

Grey knights are not astropaths, and generally lack that psychic strength or discipline, as in psychic type.
While telepathy is nice and all, GK's usually have a fire affinity, or biomancy is rather common with the hammerhand power.

Which is another important question, what psychic discipline is our hero? Or psychic path.

I'm reading the old dark heresy rulebook on the psychic powers, and if he's a biomancer he can fix that problem with wounds he had. With regeneration, it takes a while though so he doesn't have time within the prison cell.

So i need to know what kind of prison he's in, and if there's like water beneath it. Or lava, or nurgle slime. Or whatever is important to know.

I'll continue to speculate when i have this answer.

And Aubec. I actually DO believe Abaddon would forget it, or ignore it.
Abaddon is a self centered bastard whom is thoroughly tainted by the warp, that and Abaddons track record doesn't really speak of his successes.
I think he's all cocky and sure that even if our hero managed to spit acid on the chains, what use would it be? He would just capture him again if the prisoner escaped, further wearing him down.

Btw Constantine, i like this little task, it brings us together and let's us figure out fun stuff. Klomster approves! Very Happy

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Re: Epimetheus' collaborative creative writing project.

Post by Thunder Shark on Wed Apr 15, 2015 6:25 pm

Constantine wrote:My intention was not to describe him as being in suspended animation. As per the Pandorax novel, Epimetheus is suspended on warp forged chains with a blank grafted to his back etc... while Abadon bides his time to break him. I am not trying to change any of the events leading up to this point.

What I am trying to do is develop what is motivating Epimetheus other than simply excaping his captor? There needs to be more to it in order for it to be interesting to read. study

In response to your ideas, Epimetheus can not use his psychic powers to call for help, or at all for that matter. He is effectively stripped of his psychic powers by the three blanks in the room with him.

That being said, your ideas/questions are good, but a little premature at this time, we need to stay focussed on the questions.

Epimetheus must escape not only because he does not want to be a prisoner, but also for some other more compelling/suspensefull purpose.....

- The Grey Knights are going to attack the DA because they believe that the DA have captured Epimetheus to interogate him and learn more of Luther's betrayal of the Chapter. The GK believe this because Abadon has planted these ideas in order to turn the allies against themselves, and only Epimetheus can stop this horrible confrontation from happening.

- Perhaps Epimetheus must track down Fabius Bile and retrieve his progenoid gland before Fabiuos can use it to create monstrosities with the Emperors genetic material.

I drew both of these ideas from material in Pandorax, we don't have to reinvent the wheel, just try to maintain consistency and add intrigue. Does this help to make sense of what I am asking for?

Once we determine the WHY, then we can move onto the fun surrounding the HOW!!! Twisted Evil

Actually Brother when you said suspended I thought you were trying to imply suspended animation. Plus I was sick that day. Still am for that matter.

I for one agree with Brother Aubec that the hero should be another character. However we could still pull off Epimetheus escaping main character.

I like the idea of his chasing bile. Maybe he more concerned catching Bile than escaping. Finally Bile could be our villian.

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Re: Epimetheus' collaborative creative writing project.

Post by Aubec le noir on Thu Apr 16, 2015 7:10 am

Klomster wrote:What tools does he have at his disposal?
http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/8/84/Astartesorgans.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130304022124
Primarily his implants.

This person is a grey knight, he is rather badass, as confirmed by the statements mentioned in this thread earlier.
So we could get a bit gritty.

If you move your lips, you can feel that you have rather good control over them. You can for example place them between your front teeth.
While biting of your own lips is a scary thought, being tortured is as well, so either biting of the deamon sinew inside his mouth or simply biting the lips of entirely.

Yes, this is not child friendly.

The Larramans organ would prevent profuse bleeding from the mouth wound.

Now there is a new problem. He is in the torture chamber...... where?

Is it a doom fortress on top of a mountain? A ship? Sludge covered nurgle world?

I'd say it's hard to continue the problem solving without knowing this.
I'd say it's not fitting for him to "send a distress signal".

Grey knights are not astropaths, and generally lack that psychic strength or discipline, as in psychic type.
While telepathy is nice and all, GK's usually have a fire affinity, or biomancy is rather common with the hammerhand power.

Which is another important question, what psychic discipline is our hero? Or psychic path.

And Aubec. I actually DO believe Abaddon would forget it, or ignore it.
Abaddon is a self centered bastard

Btw Constantine, i like this little task, it brings us together and let's us figure out fun stuff. Klomster approves! Very Happy

So ... the implants ... even though Bile took the Progenoïds glands we can suppose that Abaddon let the other implants to be sure that Epimetheus lives a sufficient time to corrupt him !! Twisted Evil
SO yes it's plausible that Epimetheus got his implants... so we can work with that !

Location of Epimetheus cell is paramount, yes !! but we can decide it !! that will colour our novel but this is good !! Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
i would say that it won't be a Nurgle world because Abaddon let the Nurgle choosen one alone when the things on Pandorax got though ... I assume that Abaddon would put Epimetheus in a jail in one of his toughest and more secure Stronghold in the Eye.
Now who knows the name of a Deamon World possessed by Abaddon ?

I disagree with you brother K ... GKs have the most powerful Telepathic Psykers ever... more powerful than the Astropaths ... They are the Prognosticar, and they can receive warnings from beyond ... It's  actually the beginning of the Pandorax novel with Draigo receiving a vision from dead brothers !! Wink

So ok let's assume that Abaddon is an overconfident bastard, fact that is truely plausible and doesn't surprise me at all, he could have let implants in the Body of Epimetheus to torture him longer, but there a problem with the acid glands they can't destroy the deamon sinue because they can hurt the inside of the Epimetheus mouth ! so he has to find another way to open his mouth ! Wink
Tearing by sheer force his lips apart ... why not !

About Epimetheus Psyker domain : My guess he is a master of Biomancy ... he couldn't be in stasis for so long (nearly 10 000 years) without that imho, and possess some Telepathic faculties regarding the Pandorax novel... wich is not bad at all for us !! Razz Razz
so yes i think he could survive and heal from the escaping self-inficted injuries imagined by us all brothers ! Twisted Evil Twisted Evil

Finally i think that a double plot is a good idea : Epimetheus chasing Fabius Bile and One GK with the junior Inquisitor  + the inquisition pilot (sorry her names are escaping my boiling mind for now...Rolling Eyes Razz )  Chasing Epimethus tracks could be very great !!

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Re: Epimetheus' collaborative creative writing project.

Post by Thunder Shark on Thu Apr 16, 2015 8:45 am



Okay I noticed that Brother Constantine and Brother Klomster are more interested in Epimetheus escape. While Brother Aubec and I are more interested in the rescue effort and a possible conflict between GKs and DAs.

I proclaim that we put Constantine and Klomster in charge of writing about Epimetheus and his capture/escape. While Aubec and I are in charge of the writing about the Grey Knight trying to find Epimetheus.

Of coruse we could give each other feedbeek even if it's not on our assigned writing.

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Re: Epimetheus' collaborative creative writing project.

Post by Klomster on Thu Apr 16, 2015 8:47 am

Aren't the prognosticars just good astropaths who were put on the job?

Seems like the proper way to set things up.
Unless it's SPEEHSS MAHREENS like everything needs to be these days since the need for support personel is completely ignored.

Imagine a chapter who didn't have support personel, and all tasks were performed by marines Razz there wouldn't be anyone left to fight. Perhaps two guys or something.

Anyway, being a biomancer, doesn't really strike me as the astropathic fellow who can transmit psychic signals out from the eye of terror.
I can totally support an inquisitor or GK battle brother in orbit somehow sensing his presence, a beacon of purity on a deamon world? Yah, sticks out.

Problem is that ship must get there for a reason, and it feels strange if the reason is to get our hero back, we need a more pressing issue.
Like a chance to stop a new black crusade, or haltering a strong sorcerer.

Or simply they heard that Abaddon was there, and are out on a kill team mission.

And the suggestion of dividing into groups. While not bad i'm just really throwing ideas into the mix for people to consider and critique.

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Re: Epimetheus' collaborative creative writing project.

Post by Constantine on Thu Apr 16, 2015 9:22 am

Prognosticate are recruited from the most powerful GK psychers.

I like the idea that Draigo could set out into the EOT looking for Epimetheus. As you said brother K, Epimetheus' presence would be a stark contrast to the warp. Is his presence masked by the blanks, or is it just his powers that are effected?

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Re: Epimetheus' collaborative creative writing project.

Post by Aubec le noir on Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:01 am

it is said in every GK codex and in DH Deamonhunter supplement that the Gks won't spare any length to retrieve 1 single Psychogrenade !! Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
So imagine what they can do for a Battle Brother, not to mention one of the first 8 (reminds me of Sons of Anarchy this expression !! Razz Razz )

Though i love the Character of Draigo, i feel that the protagonists of the chase must be other guys... maybe a mix between one GK (yet to determine) + 1 inquisitor (the one appearing in Pandorax could do the trick) and one small inquisitorial retinue with the pilot.

After all as the Supreme Great Master of the Chapter 666, Draigo can't wander in a quest, even though crutial, as he would like to ! He has a lot more matters to care about ! Wink

I like the idea of 2 ways to see, take and develop the story... with cross-overs of course...  the idea of Brother Thunder Shark could be interesting...
What do you think of it brothers C and K ?

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Re: Epimetheus' collaborative creative writing project.

Post by Thunder Shark on Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:27 pm



I'm honestly indifferent to use the of Draigo. However being trapped in the warp may allow us to give him cameo appearance or he stumbles on the trapped location after sniffing wrap dust.

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Re: Epimetheus' collaborative creative writing project.

Post by Constantine on Thu Apr 16, 2015 4:25 pm

Thunder Shark wrote:

I'm honestly indifferent to use the of Draigo. However being trapped in the warp may allow us to give him cameo appearance or he stumbles on the trapped location after sniffing wrap dust.

Lol!!!! Warp dust! :p

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Re: Epimetheus' collaborative creative writing project.

Post by Klomster on Thu Apr 16, 2015 4:28 pm

Since the blanks dull out psychic potential i think it would mask his presence as well. The short story with the farseer describes it as a void, empty space.

As far as i am concerned one should be cautious about throwing around big established characters within your story. IIRC Draigo is already in it, but special characters from codices and different books should be avoided unless it's important for the story.

I know you like Draigo brother Constantine, but Aubec is right, he has more important things to do. (Lol, warp dust.)

Telling the story from different perspectives is a classic way to do it in all 40k novels i've read and i think it works well. As long as its clear when whom is "on screen" so to speak.

The inquisitorial kill team/retinue seems fitting, with a respected battle brother to keep them on course. So a terminator, paladin or justicar. Someone respected but not crucial.
I'd say the inquisitor probably has a way to disguise the ship as a chaos vessel, and a strong presence of GK would ruin the cover. So a small escort vessel like a firestorm frigate or similar works well.
Perhaps he even got hold of one of the old escorts chaos uses. Since the imperium felt they went out of style after the heresy for some reason.... strange that. There's probably a few still lying around in some imperial dockyard somewhere.

So inquisitor gets a squad of badasses, including a grey knight for that proper extra oomph. An old decomissioned escort, like an Iconclast, since cool name and cool looks.

Cover it with slime and whatnot and goes for the mission. Seems legit to me.

Much battle and daring adventures ensues, and BAM, cool story achieved.

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Re: Epimetheus' collaborative creative writing project.

Post by Aubec le noir on Fri Apr 17, 2015 1:46 am

Now comes again the question of : WHERE ?
we have to determine where the story will begin and where it will heading and brings us !
should we imagine a deamon world ?... I don't know yet but it will be cool though ! Twisted Evil
and maybe we could use rivalry between Abaddon and other powerful Chaos Lords as a tool to free Epimetheus...
so :
A generic Chaotic world, a Khorne one ? a Tzeentch one ? a Slaanesh one ?... as i said i hardly see a Nurgle one, as Abaddon betrayed his Champion a short time ago ... Twisted Evil
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