OUR SUGGESTION FOR THE NEW DAEMONHUNTERS-GREY KNIGHTS CODEX

gks w/ stormbolters get an extra attack all of the time, their True Grit ability makes the storm bolter a cc weapon on any turn in which they did not charge. so we do get that added perk/ so that is 3 attacks every turn? ( 1+ 2 cc weapons/charged)[/u]

Sadly we always gain a bonus attack from the SB but gain no benefit on the charge

Also armour is so depreciated these days with all the cover saves, I'd rather they ignore cover saves

One thing i would like to see the ne codex that i didn't mention is the deamonhammer. I understand that it is a thunderhammer that when daemons are present you strike at your initiative, why not have all thunderhammers that way for terminators??? I understand that the deamonhammer can only be taken only once in the army. But why not take it more often. In the GK Omnibus, i believe more than one of the GKs had hammers as weapons and they were thunderhammers from what i understand. Why not be able to take more than one? Why not have that available for the normal GK?

What about a unit of PAGK that were fast attack and had fleet and or furious charge would be expensive but powerful the downside would be thaat they are not scoring, they could also represent a more veteren unit of PAGK, not to say the troop is not veteren but includes some newer members, where as the fast attack choice would represent a unit which has been operational together for quite some time.

Grey Wolf

Grey Wolf wrote:What about a unit of PAGK that were fast attack and had fleet and or furious charge would be expensive but powerful the downside would be thaat they are not scoring, they could also represent a more veteren unit of PAGK, not to say the troop is not veteren but includes some newer members, where as the fast attack choice would represent a unit which has been operational together for quite some time.

Grey Wolf

I like that idea, sort of a "Vanguard Veteran" Grey Knight.

I'm also interested in what GW's solution to True Grit will be. This rule has gone away from the new codices but it's such an integral part of the Grey Knights I don's see how we couldn't have it.

Aeddon wrote:

Grey Wolf wrote:What about a unit of PAGK that were fast attack and had fleet and or furious charge would be expensive but powerful the downside would be thaat they are not scoring, they could also represent a more veteren unit of PAGK, not to say the troop is not veteren but includes some newer members, where as the fast attack choice would represent a unit which has been operational together for quite some time.

Grey Wolf

I like that idea, sort of a "Vanguard Veteran" Grey Knight.

I'm also interested in what GW's solution to True Grit will be. This rule has gone away from the new codices but it's such an integral part of the Grey Knights I don's see how we couldn't have it.

True Grit becomes a special rule for Grey Knights is the only option I can see.

Grey wolf

Either that or we could have one more attack standard. That would probably fit about as well as anything else.

I think there could be an addition of some new HQ units. I'm thinking:

HQ

Grand Master:
WS..BS..S..T..W..I...A...Ld...Sv
.6....5....4..4..4...5...4..10...2+/4+

Wargear:
-Iron Halo (or something with the same effect but different name)
-NFW (+2S Force/Power weapon)
-Terminator Armour
-Storm Bolter
May take additional wargear/psychic(0-1) powers from armoury
165 pts

Knight Commander:
WS..BS..S..T..W..I...A...Ld...Sv
.6....5....4..4..3...5..3...10...2+/4+

Wargear:
-Iron Halo (or something with the same effect but different name)
-NFW (+2S Force/Power weapon)
-Terminator Armour
-Storm bolter
May take additional wargear/psychic(0-1) powers
120 pts

Brother Captain:
WS..BS..S..T..W..I..A...Ld..Sv
.6....5....4..4..2...5..2...10..2+/5+

Wargear:
-NFW (+2S power weapon)
-Terminator armour
-Storm bolter
May Take Additional wargear/psychic(0-1) powers
80 pts

A Grand Master or Knight Commander may take a Terminator Retinue (3-9 models):
- Grey Knight Terminators
0-1 Grey Knight Terminator Chaplain (only for Grand Master Retinue):
WS..BS..S..T..W..I...A...Ld...Sv
.6....5....4..4..2...5..2...10...2+/4+

Wargear:
-Liturgies of Battle (units in retinue and GM can re-roll failed hits - as per SM codex)
-Terminator Armour
-Rosarius (4+ Invul)
-NFW in Crozius Arcanum form (+2S power weapon)
-Storm Bolter
135pts

Other Notes:
In a single non-appocalypse force 0-1 GM/KC, Both units may not be taken
- I think the points are quite balanced no?
- The Chaplain is more expensive than a Knight commander because of Liturgies of battle and the points cost based on Codex SM
- Is it more appropriate that the leader of a terminator retinue is called a "Terminator Justicar" as a justicar often has terminator honours?
- Unit price is based heavily on codex SM

I am going on holidays soon so I intend to create a more complete overhall of rules and psychic powers for codex daemonhunters

Don't forget eternal warrior on the grandmaster... just throwing it out there...

Whilst I think Eternal Warrior is cool to throw in, I have the feeling that its cool because its overpowered. I'd rather not do that. One reason is that at 165pts no space marine or chaos space marine unit has eternal warrior and a lot of space marine chapter masters (special characters) don't have eternal warrior either. Only Marneus Calgar and Imperial fists guy have eternal warrior in the entire SM codex.

I would however put eternal warrior on a GK GM special character, just not the default HQ choice.

Well, in the space marine codex, all models with 4 wounds have eternal warrior. All with less don't.
And about the chaos space marines, the demon princes are eternal warriors at 110 points with 4 wounds. Actually, now that I think about it, they are really cheap for what you get.

But let's face it, in every new codex, GW will add more and more eternal warriors or nifty instant death defying tricks.

Thats a good observation, never noticed that before.

ZOMG on the Demon Prince, that must easily be one of the most over powered units ever created.

With those stats I am tempted to add eternal warrior to match the cheese, but then I would be sinking to the lows of Chaos.

What I think would be more appropriate would be to add furious charge to all Grey Knights in terminator armour.

fight evil with evil? Them daemonprinces are the reason I love our outdated or just mistyped forceweapons.
No but seriously, in your suggestion of HQ's there isn't enough difference between the grandmaster and commander to make them 2 separate choices.

I don't see "furious charge" as appropriate because i see GK as calm and methodical warriors, but the possibility of charging after a deepstrike would be great, and of course 3 attacks + 1 for the charge, assuming that the PAGK have 2 full attacks and not true grit anymore.
Aubec

I wouldn't present them as seperate choices though, its just on the forum you can't post in a table format.

I actually hate that the 5th ed. SM codex and CSM codex has sooooo much space wasted. Like Chapter Masters and Captains are exactly the same thing except that one of them has orbital bombardment and they are listed as seperate HQ choices (WHY!? how unecessary) and an armoury section that tells you to refer to what the wargear on the unit says (whats the point of having an armoury section then?). The 4th ed. codices have a MUCH better layout, it balances fluff with information. The 5th ed. codices have WAY too much fluff for the ammount of info, and most of the info is repeated at least twice (excluding the summary sheet)
+++ END 5th ed. codex format hate +++

My presentation would be much similar to what you see in the 4th ed. codices where you have a standard commander and a supperior commander listed in the same table, so that overall you have a one table with two choices (like the Tau and 4th ed. SM codex)

As for furious charge, I've always imagined that a Grey Knight terminator charge would be them smashing their NFWs into the enemy, like a really epic charge. Grey Knights terminators in a charge should be likened to medieval knights on horse charging into peseants. Whilst methodical and controlled there is a sheer amount of mass behind them in their charge, unlike SM terminators who doodle around with powerfists and hammers before attacking.

Also it is explicitly terminators not PAGK, since termies don't get true grit. Giving PAGK furious charge is overpowered. But I definately agree that PAGK should get 2 base attacks and scrap true grit.

2 base attacks plus an attack on the charge would be quite a buff, and encourage people to play them as shock troops instead of being more of an all rounder.
I doubt we would see it happen without major nerfs in other areas.

i don't know ... i think it would be the best translation of true grit in the 5th edition... after all GK are suposed to be the cream, the bests of the bests and so on ...
Well all of this is just dreams and hopes until GW edit a new GK or inquisition codex....
Aubec

I'd like for them to all be able to have 3 attacks each, regardless of charging or not. It only makes sense that they would have should skill, looking at our numerous enemy's who all have 3 or more bloody attacks off the charge >_>.

BY THE WAY-> I heard that Dakkadakka has an update on our codex!!! I am not 100% sure if this is true, but I am going to go check it out here and let you all know.

yeah they have something on their site...not that that really confirms the rumor...

Dakkadakka ??
Aubec

DakkaDakka: http://www.dakkadakka.com/

Website for more general hobby stuff

(Am I allowed to link other sites?)

ok thanks
EDIT : and what does say the rumour of update ??
Aubec

I don't see an update happening any time soon... but probably before dark eldar!

The update for the daemonhunters codex and witch-hunters codex is expected to arrive by the 41st millenium

and a half !!
Aubec