Girls?

I´m totally aware that he was just yoking. That´s why i had posted the link.

It gives the word "fluff" in relation of 40K a new meaning.

Dark Bjoern wrote:Who said that 40K is not pink enought for a girl? Take a look here: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/uploads/1179408516/gallery_17365_1193_27151.jpg

OMG!!! That's so awesome...

It looks like a deranged puppy

Dark Bjoern wrote:Who said that 40K is not pink enought for a girl? Take a look here: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/uploads/1179408516/gallery_17365_1193_27151.jpg

PURGE IT WITH FIRE!

LOL! Gotta give her credit thats done really well too.

The thing about political correctness, is that the more people do it, the more human stupidity wins.
Plus I have found you can be being as nice as possible to someone, and if they want a fight they'll turn it all around and it'll be a huge shitfight no matter what.

This way I'm honest and can back up my comments
But yes the pink comment was very tongue in cheek (foot in mouth too)

I'm with you on that Zealadin. Personally I'm not a big fan of political correctness. Plus I don't find it very fair or equal... I was going to give a massive spill as an example, but that would be going off topic a fair bit.

Yea, might get in a bit of trouble if you fall off the topic train.

That being said anyone else notice the irony. Discrimination? No Discrimination?

You can't discriminate against discrimination, thats discriminatory!

Lol

Its like in Australia, we have legislation which allows 'positive discrimination', so that the government can help certain 'groups' of people.

Now seriously, I'm really not sure why this is needed because positive discrimination against on group is simply discrimination agianst EVERYONE ELSE!
If they want to do something for that particular group have a law stating that the need for this kind of focus should be well founded, rather than just based on some stupid law.

Also what about the massive discrimination against young people in almost all aspects of Australia life... seriously all young people should sue the government.

Oh and yea the topic.. girls...

Zealadin wrote:Its like in Australia, we have legislation which allows 'positive discrimination', so that the government can help certain 'groups' of people.

Now seriously, I'm really not sure why this is needed because positive discrimination against on group is simply discrimination agianst EVERYONE ELSE!
If they want to do something for that particular group have a law stating that the need for this kind of focus should be well founded, rather than just based on some stupid law.

Also what about the massive discrimination against young people in almost all aspects of Australia life... seriously all young people should sue the government.

Oh and yea the topic.. girls...

I'm not sure which group you are refering to so whenever I write "Girls" substitute what you meant .
In order for Positive discrimination laws to be put into effect there is more than likely a substantial history of thase "girls" being oppressed, by the larger portion of the population that you feel are now being discriminated against. IMHO we need to have more laws that assist "girls" that are oppressed by Society, even young people. What kind of discrimination do the young face in OZ? I'm sure a little historical research will clear things up for you in regards to how laws have come to be in place. It's actually kind of scary, as a whole we (humans) are a pretty hateful bunch

Aboriginals.

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=22tVz6_oS5U&feature=related

Yeah I do have to admit that I never understood the positive discrimination act. Especially when it doesn't seem to work.... How many aboriginal lawyers or doctors do you know??? no racism here, just an observation, like I observe a lot of people having so many advantages, wasting them and doing sweet eff all with their lives. Trust me when I see someone from a "minority group" doing something with their life it makes me happy. But they are far too few in between. I don't blame the race, but the mentality in which they are brought up. It is hard to break away from that mentality and when I used to see black people at death metal gigs in the UK and the US, I was life: "EFF YEAH! YOU ROCK!" There's not many of them and they tend to be brought up in a hip hop/rap environment in general.

I guess the same could be applied to girls, the click, and the environment they are brought up in: Bring up a girl in a boys environment and chances are she'll kick your *ss!

True that altho there seems to be a huge increase in guys brought up in a female environment which is leading to these emo's who don't see any distinction between men and woman, and are just freeks (cutting themselves, dressing like girls, etc). Sorry I can't see a way to sugar coat it, but they are really just strange strange barely male men.
Of course if you don't see certain social and cultural traits as being male you probably don't beleive this, but society has evolved over a a very long period and shouldn't just change overnight in ways which may have serious consequences, equality is good, but it needs to be real equality.
Women brought up in a male environment are generally alot tougher, but they also seem to hold a much stronger sense of self and what it is to be a female. Guys just seem (generally) to lose that in the same circumstances.

Also they applaud the tiny % of the minority groups for succeeding and act as though the 1 in a hundred, or even thousand makes up for the other tens of thousands wasting everyones time and money.
The small percentage succeeding shouldn't be the hero's they are just doing what every other normal person HAS to do to survive.
I don't see awards or rewards for the normal people, and they defiantely don't seem to need them to succeed. So why give them to the groups who only fail with greater ease when they have a system to take advantage of.

If no one has any advantages the people who EARN and DESERVE the final rewards will generally get them. Its not a perfect system but its far better than all the preferential treatment that goes on, and the total bias against the 'normal' person in favour of those who apparently need assistance

*Edit: Just want to add my usual disclaimer that I'm not trying to insult anyone, and my views can be quite extreme, but I'm happy to hear any feedback or arguements otherwise, or even just a "your an idiot" (not too often though)*

Zealadin wrote:If no one has any advantages the people who EARN and DESERVE the final rewards will generally get them. Its not a perfect system but its far better than all the preferential treatment that goes on, and the total bias against the 'normal' person in favour of those who apparently need assistance

This is a valid point brother. However, even though you may not think you (as a white male) are given preferential treatment over others, you are. It is the way of our Patriarchal capitalist society, as men we are given higher wages and preferential positions in the labour market, and do not face any real dicrimination (but are the perpetrators of discrimination on others). I agree that those who work hard should achieve, it is just that society is set up in such a way (like it or not) that there "needs" to be oppression in order for it to "work" ("work" meaning the rich men staying rich).
Just take a look at globalization, do you think that would work if we didn't exploit the heck out of the global south? definatly not.

I am not saying that there aren't free loaders, of course there are. It's just that we need to look really closely at what we take for granted or consider normal, and evaluate our lives from a different perspective.

This is a very deep and potentially heated topic, and I would like to thank you for your maturity in adderessing it in a respectful way and ask that none of you take offense to what I believe.

As Zealadin states, I to am willing to hear feedback/arguments but ask that they are presented respectfully.

Constantine wrote:However, even though you may not think you (as a white male) are given preferential treatment over others, you are. It is the way of our Patriarchal capitalist society, as men we are given higher wages and preferential positions in the labour market, and do not face any real dicrimination (but are the perpetrators of discrimination on others). I agree that those who work hard should achieve, it is just that society is set up in such a way (like it or not) that there "needs" to be oppression in order for it to "work" ("work" meaning the rich men staying rich).

We do get some preferential treatment in Australia, but not from the government. More from the average Joe... to a certain degree. I know a lot of orientals over here who seem to do really well. Head of publishing, banking, etc... So the white male preferential wouldn't apply here.

Either way, I understand the compassion and humanity behind trying to help a minority, but when it doesn't seem to work all it does is create a division between cultural groups as one who works his *ss off to feed his kid and pay for school, etc, becomes bitter when they realise that a lot of people take full advantage of free housing and benefits and don't bother working for it when they actually could get priority and free school or Uni.

Personally I'm not bitter, but annoyed at the fact of seeing a people who get these advantages and ignore them in preference of alcoholism and drugs. Plus the parents do it, so why not the kids. How do you stop a circle like that? Stop all benefits? Maybe put in place a reward scheme... such as stay off the drugs and make sure your kids go to school and don't vandalise the town, and we'll let you have benefits and housing. If you fail, well you become a bum and we take your child into foster care... hey actually that's not bad. Or is that too close to the stolen generation??? Zealadin, help... I'm not sure if I'm touching taboo subject here...

I hope I'm making sense, and once again I'm not trying to insult you if you are a hard working person. The rest of you.... get a job!
Joke!

I'm not pointing fingers, or accusing people but alot of Americans are totally 'behind' the support of aboriginals in Australia, and when they come here go out of their way to praise groups that purely support them or provide services, etc.
The problem is I think they just assume our Aboriginals are similar to the native indians in America, who needed a fair go and once they got that they worked to fit in and lead meaningful lives.
Now I'm not saying all of ours don't do that, but the way the government has handled support has simply led to a situation where generations simply rely on the support and only do the work necessary to receive it, rather than using it as a transition to mainstream society.

Attempts to end this generally lead to massive campaigns about stolen generation and discrimination, and make all of the normal australian's who want our tax money going to educate ALL our children not to line bludgers pockets (no matter what their race, class or previous social status).
Sadly the stolen generation an attempt to HELP the aboriginals (misguided perhaps) failed, and the current generations are paying the price, which can't really be claimed sits on their shoulders... You can't say crimes are transmited through generations, otherwise you have a serious issue, especially when these 'crimes' where an attempt to help a group of people who seem to have enormous issues joining mainstream society to do just that...

There is definately discrimination, but it generally goes both ways, and often the stuff that goes the 'other' way is just taken as being normal, there are lots of jobs that women are far more suited to filling, and thats seen as normal, there are also jobs men are more suited too.
These are just generalisations, and sure the people from outside the preferred groups may get discriminated against, but it happens everywhere....

Just working in the service industry I can tell you generally guys get the bad end of the stick when your boss is a female and there are female workers. If the same situation applied with a male boss and male workers, there would be law suits and government involvement, but most male bosses know how society works and make sure there is equality, while alot of female bosses don't seem to realise the preferential treatment of female staff is discrimination no matter the reasoning behind it.
Its probably less common than the discrimination against women but its still 100% there.

Discrimination should be closely monitored and kept in check, but it will ALWAYS exist, simply because humans are emotional beings and as such will always be influenced by this, in major business people have to declare this kind of bias, and acknowledge it incase it clouds their judgement.

It just doesn't seem that the 'majority group' ever gets a fair go because its NOT really a majority group its many many many smaller groups that have been forced together so that the people who feel they are discriminated against can say "us, and you".
If they want to the discrimination to stop then why extend the cycle by making themselves such seperate entities?

I see alot of discrimination against aboriginals based on their perceived worth in society, and the problem is a large group of them do live off welfare and take advantage of a system meant to help them and bring them through the hard times, and actively teach younger generations that that is what they are due...
Its just a self perpetuating cycle sadly...

And the worst part is that they acknowledge the fact they are doing this, and are proud of it... they let everyone know this fact as well. This may be a small group of the total, but everyone knows the behaviour of a few taints the perception of a group, and because of the situation they are treated with kid gloves to avoid any 'discrimination' instead of being made an example of so that everyone could see that the majority of the group are really trying to change.

WOOOW!!!

When did this thread begin speaking of aborginians?

This thread sure is popular.

What galaxy are these aborginians from?
We need more data! They could be a threat to Titan!

I believe thieese humans are a certain kind of tribesmen from before the dark age of technology, from holy terra itself!

But this kind of thoughts are absurd, we need more likely data!

Brothers ferrochrome669 and Zealadin, I can see your are passionate about this situation. I would like to point out however brother ferrochrome669 that no matter how much it may appear that a group of people "prefere alcoholoism and drugs" over "normal" life this is not the case. Alcoholism and addiction are considered by many to be diseases, and are usually turned to as a last resort/coping mechanism. To say it is prefered is to say that someone chooses conditions of poverty, disease, and abuse, which I know you are not saying. Also there is the influence of learned helplessness in which people who have been oppressed/discriminated against finally just give up and feel that they are powerless to make changes regardless of what they do. And this is definatly a mindframe that can be passed onto future generations creating a vicious circle. IMHO that is what these reverse discrimination programs are in place for, to help educate individuals as to the dangers of alcohol and drugs, make society as a whole aware of what it's government has done/does to perpetuate this situation, and give autonomy back to a people who had it stripped from them.

Zealadin, correct me if i'm wrong, but weren't the aboriginal peoples of ancient terra considered as floura/fauna by the government until not to long ago, and I believe it was legal to shoot them as a form of population control. You make a good point when you say that society is made up of many different diverse groups. However, by asking why "they" don't just conform to "our" ways it just further exacerbates the situation by promoting that rift. What makes our ways right? Is it because we colonized these peoples home lands and had more guns?

This is a HUGE issue, and I do not have enough knowledge surrounding the Aboriginal peoples of Austrailia's situation. I am however, very familiar with Canada's treatment of it's First Nations Peoples and it is from this knowledge that I am making my points. I appreciate that the two peoples are different as you stated, I am just attempting to point out similarities between our government's/societies approaches both historically and in the present day to these issues.


I think I have made it clear of my stance on the situation and I can understand where you are making your stance. My stance is one in which diversity is not only acknowledged but also embrased. Not everyone can/will fit into the cookie cutter ideal of the dominat societies norms, nor should they have to. As I said before I don't know enough about your countries situation to be to specific, and as you stated it is different from Canada's. I do see similarities though, and I hope you can to. We are on opposite ends of this topic, but I enjoy hearing other points of view. And what better way to reach soultions than to listen to all those involved. That being said, we don't know how the peoples we are talking about feel. And in order to address this issues effectively, all those involved will need to be heard and acknowledged.

That being said.........................

I still haven't seen any girls in my local GW store latly

My bad, definitely a wrong choice of word and not what I meant. I know that drugs and alcoholism is a last resort/coping mechanism. The problem got so bad in one Australian state, the government had to enforce an alcohol ban. I'm not saying the people are to blame for it, I'm just saying that the governments approach to the issue is not the right one. It hasn't worked in the past, so why should it now. And instead of an entire overhaul they just make quick little fixes that sort of solves the problem on a short term basis but not on a long term. And wether it's the right wing or left wing party, it still hasn't changed the problem.
See the problem has got so bad that people in Australia fear being un-PC. Cops had to hire Aboriginals in the force, because every time they would make a move against an aboriginal made crime (domestic violence, theft, etc...), they would be branded as racist. Now i know that this group is using this political correctness to their advantage as a survival mechanism, but on a day to day basis for me and others like me, it's a pain in the *ss and it's infuriating. And it only serves in dividing society further.
Funny, over here I think we tend to be more protective of Indian americans (or as you say 'First Nations Peoples' - is there a reason for that? PC?) as, in the American continent, people would feel more for the aboriginies. I think it might come down to glamorizing a foreign and exotic culture.
Anyway, the problem is not just restricted to the australian government and aboriginies, I have seen the same problem in France and the UK, both countries in which I have lived for many years. In Paris for example the problem was not what race you were but which suburb you came from (although it's a bit more complicated than that, and it's really too much of a big problem for me to even attempt explaining it). And in London, it didn't matter wether you were black, white, arab or whatever, I found that the government was too generous with it's benefits and created a generation of teenage single mum's who got free housing and benefits. What do you think the children of these single mums/parents are going to do with their lives when they see their mum/parents getting benefits for nothing, and their neighbours working hard and struggling to make ends meet? I think the majority would go for the easy way.
Bla... mental spew!

I just dont believe in favouritism and helping people so much that they become lazy. As the saying goes: "Help yourself and god will help you". Now I'm not religious at all, but there is a moral to this saying.... 'Get your sh*t sorted mate'. Lol

The world wont change, their are too many people, too many conflicting ideas and too many different cultures for us humans to work as one. Not too say we shouldn't try, at least that keeps things kind of stable as opposed to crashing down into Chaos... Argh! Chaos... I feel impure. Scourge me with fire brothers. Purge the sin from my soul.

Nope, no girls here... Argh! More impure thoughts. Brothers, help!

Readies 2 acolyte storm troopers.

Both with holy flamers.
One in each hand.

-Cleanse him! I say.

*Burnination sounds*

-Hmmm, he's still there, ok, burn him some more!

They ready the flamers again.

I think the idea of anyone 'prefering' drug use and alchohol abuse is often a bit misrepresented, I know lots of young people from very good families who definately fall into these catagories, but consider themselves just normal youths, having fun and doing what they want.

Most of them do however work for this money, and have had to pay for very expensive health bills from the consequences which in MOST cases have lead to them being more responsible.

How will a group who gets paid to do nothing, and then spends it all on alchohol and drugs ever learn not to do this when all their health expenses are in turn covered by the government.
Its defiantely a social and cultural issue.
I mean one of the major issues with said group right now, (as a proven fact based on research by the government) is that the money paid to the families (in general), sometimes with many children is not going to feed the children, it is going straight onto alchohol and drugs. These children grow up on a similar level as children in Africa who do not have clean water, reliable food or an education.
The one difference is that their families do have access to all these things, but they chose to spend it on drugs on alchohol, and even more amazingly the government pays them more for each child, meaning these people know they can have more children and get more money, not for their families, but for their habits.

Aboriginal's where not considered 'normal people' the same as indians where not in america, or people of african ascent for a long period.

A very contraversial view here is that aboriginals need to be basically forced into joining maintstream society (much like was attempted with the 'stolen generation') in order for them ever to do so.
They are currently represented as the highest group of unemployed in australia, they have the highest crime rate (even with special laws that generally let them off), they have huge issues with child abuse, and have the highest percentage of any group living below the poverty line.

They are also receiving a very very large amount of support compared to any other group, and have been doing so for quite some time, and have made little to no progress.

There is one major issue with saying "its because they where discriminated against" its just not an excuse, (yes an excuse not a reason) which can ever lead to a proper solution.
Most people struggle very very hard to lead a normal life, especially in the current world, and when it comes down to it they have to find their own beleif in themselves and their family and society to keep going, and to make their life what they want it.
These people never get a reward they haven't earned, they never get support for what they do, or become a hero for acheiving something above normal, or even just normal, and they pay their taxes for those benefits to go to people who do literally just waste them.

The real discrimination going on against them at this time is not from outside sources, its them basically descriminating against themselves in order to continue the lives they lead, and whats really really sad is they are teaching the newer generations to continue the cycle, instead of encouraging them to aspire higher.

For example... in the last year or so a group of aboriginal males where brought before court for raping a 11 or 12 year old girl (also aboriginal) the court(or more specifically the judge) let them off because they are aboriginal (they receive special sentencing in alot of states).
This girl was mentally disadvantaged.
A short period later all the SAME group where in court once again for gang raping the girl again, and they where once again let off.

The judge was brought before public scrutiny for this, and you know what she said? Aboriginals have been discriminated against, and I'm fully behind the movement to support them, I don't beleive in sending them to jail because it doesn't fix the problem and can lead to suicide.

I think its a common fact that rapists and pedophiles are basically always repeat offenders, but they are not just let off to go straight back and reoffend.
Its just morally incomprehensible for this to be allowed.

I'm not really passionate about the subject, I'm more passionate about the morals and reasoning behind this issue.

I agree not everyone can or will fit into the normal mould of society, but you definately can't say our society doesn't allow for that... the problem is the people from all groups who are starting to realise that they can live off the hard work of everyone else by taking advantage of a system meant to help them, and have the best of both worlds, they aren't trying to just be themselves, or live how they want, they are simply taking the easiest option which involves the least work.
Personally I would rather see no help for anyone so that this cannot happen, and in doing so probably see people who should be receiving the help and support go under, than see a ever increasing cycle of people moving towards this trend, which in the end will destroy our society.

No ones willing to make hard choices anymore, especially not the politically 'incorrect' ones, and really when it comes down to it those are the decision which shape the world, our society and culture, and if they aren't made we are steadily heading backwards towards the times such as Hitler being in charge, or the Communists.

Woow, that is some deep stuff (and completely off topic, but so am i)

That stuff about taxes going directly to the drug corrupted parents of many children can't be the average, it should be a minority (otherwise, it's pretty screwed)

In sweden we have alot of systems and tax-fueled money-packs (don't know word) for people without work, with children etc. etc.

I understand that some people are taking advantage of the system and don't do anything except getting money for free.

But here i don't think its that big of a problem, but i don't know about australia, and i certanly didn't know that about aborginians.

Why not 1) start a new thread for this 2) Just stop it.

I know of girls that like painting and looking at their models and stuff like that, but i don't think that they are as passionate about the game itself as us

Locally we have a female Grey knight player, Orc player, and dark eldar that are regulars.