2000 pts vs Blood Angels New List Advice Needed

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2000 pts vs Blood Angels New List Advice Needed

Post by Nemesis356 on Fri Dec 30, 2011 10:10 am

Well, I've got my first two games under my belt after a 9 year hiatus from 40k, and I got beat both times. First time was due to not playing in about 9 years, and deploying poorly as well as forgetting over half my beneficial rules. Second time I likely would have won except for forgetting a few more rules and quite frankly, the dice gods hated me. I had two psyfledreads unload on a stormraven in two turns and not even land a glancing hit. Ugh. 32 shots and not one glancing hit even. He had the dice of The Gods, and managed to roll everything he needed. Anyways, I took a look at my list and what was and wasn't working, and have come up with a few early thoughts:

1) Dreadknights look sweet, can be sweet, but are pretty situational. If I were playing a horde army that had alot of S3 T3 models I would certainly include a DK to tarpit and drown them. Against something like BA it's not mobile enough without the teleporter and by the time you add that onto a Sword or Hammer and a Heavy Incinerator, I just can't shake the feeling I could be spending the points on something better. So I dropped it in favor of a Land Raider Redeemer. I went with it due to the Flamestorm Cannons - my BA opponent always takes at least 1 and usually 2 squads of scouts. Sniper rifles with rending and pinning, puts them in 2+ cover save, etc, always rolls sixes for rending, real pain in my ass. So I figure if I'm going to drop the DK for a transport for my Paladins, I should still hold onto some template cover ignoring flameage.

2) Draigo is awesome. Will include whenever possible.

3) Everyone I read that includes purifiers in their army, claims they're the best unit in GK codex. I don't know about those guys, but I find my purifiers to be nigh useless. Maybe I roll crappy, maybe I need more practice, but I find that with a 2 foot range, once I get them in there, they just don't have the time to lay down the shots before they get into CC. My tactic then was to include a razorback with a TL Lascannon (For a little extra anti-tank, my BA opponent runs a stormraven and a Baal Predator). I then combat squaded my Purifiers and sent my hcc weapon armed group of 5 to footslog it whilst my 4 psycannons and a CC were put in the Razorback to get them where they need to be and if need be get them back out of harms way should any of his jump pack troops or the arseholeish sanguinary guard start to close in. If he elects to move instead of shoot, he can actually cover the entire two foot range of my psycannons in one turn if he rolls a 6 in the shooting phase to run. Anyone have any suggestions on things to do different? I can see against Necrons or any other army that can't move that fast that purifiers would be really awesome, but against BA I really feel like I could spend the points on more terminators and take the fight into cc. Every CC battle I got into I rolled over him between power weapons (force if i want them to be too) and quite frankly, Draigo is just a disgusting beast.

4) Given that I had such terrible luck with my psyfledreads and im considering dropping the Purifiers against BA, should I spend some of those points and make both my Psyfledreads venerable or at least one of them? Hitting on 2's instead of threes worth another 60 - 120 points? You would think you wouldnt need it, but man...



HQ

To Be Determined

Elites

Paladin Squad x 5
Psycannon (MC) / Halberd (MC)
Psycannon (MC) / Sword (MC)
Storm Bolter / Halberd (MC)
Storm Bolter / Hammer (MC)
Storm Bolter (MC) / Halberd (MC)

Troops

Terminator Squad x 5
Jstcr Strm Bltr / Hammer (MC)
Psycannon / Halberd
Storm Bolter / Halberd
Storm Bolter / Halberd
Storm Bolter / Halberd

Terminator Squad x 5
Jstcr Strm Bltr / Hammer (MC)
Psycannon / Halberd
Storm Bolter / Halberd
Storm Bolter / Halberd
Storm Bolter / Halberd

Heavy Support

Dreadnought
Twin Linked Autocannon (Right)
Twin Linked Autocannon (Left)
Psybolt Ammo

Dreadnought
Twin Linked Autocannon (Right)
Twin Linked Autocannon (Left)
Psybolt Ammo


Land Raider Redeemer
Psybolt Ammo
Psyflame Ammo

TOTAL POINTS = 1350

Alright, now here's what I want for the core of my list. So far, all terminators. CC should be in my favor against just about anything, and I have decent shooting with my Psyfledreads (I call them my Rollin 1's, out of spite), some psycannons. My Land Raider is there to transport my HQ and my Paladins to the fray.

Now, for the advice I need. How would you fill this out, especially against Blood Angels? He has been talking about getting more mechanized, so I may want to include more anti-tank. Should another Land raider to transport one squad of terminators plus the two lascannons be added? Or should I max out my "NeverRoll" Psyfledreads?

Purifiers? Do I just suck with them right now and need the practice? Or are they really maybe not that good against fast moving troops?

HQ Choice. Need alot of thought into this one. As I understand it, I can only use 1 power per turn. Now, does that mean per overall turn, or per player turn?
IE can I use Holocaust before assaulting in my turn and then use Hammerhand when he's in his assault turn? Or is it one or the other until my turn again? Also, if I take Draigo, can I use my paladins power to activate their force weapons and then use his mastery level 2 to activate his force weapon and then use his Hammerhand to up the S on the whole unit, or does his Hammerhand only work on him? I'm also debating swapping Draigo for a Libby with Might of Titan. If I can use his MoT and Hammerhand to increase the whole squad to S 6, even without activating force weapons, the Nemesis are still power weapons that will ignore armor saves. That's crazy cc power. Hit on 3, wound on 2, no armor saves. Bam.

Anyways, this is getting really long, so look forward to hearing some suggestions.

Thanks for putting up with my wall of text, brothers. Remember, Wall of Text only wounds on a 5+. study

Nemesis356
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Re: 2000 pts vs Blood Angels New List Advice Needed

Post by Sai on Fri Dec 30, 2011 10:34 am

I really like interceptors. If you get 10, you can combat squad them so one team has 2 incinerators and the other has a couple of hammers. The incinerators can jump 30" and fry the scouts early in the game rather than having to trundle up to them. If you're sneaky the hammers can get the drop on an enemy vehicle.
Also, they have the psychic disruption thing that messes with deepstrike- i imagine that would be useful against the angels.
I'd say they're pretty useful no matter which opposition you have- being in the right place at the right time is more useful than an extra attack.

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Re: 2000 pts vs Blood Angels New List Advice Needed

Post by Nemesis356 on Fri Dec 30, 2011 10:38 am

Surprisingly enough, he only deep strikes one unit. Everything else gets rolled in the stormraven or has jump packs. And he didn't deep strike anything in the second game.

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Re: 2000 pts vs Blood Angels New List Advice Needed

Post by Rivan on Fri Dec 30, 2011 10:39 am

First off, your rules questions:
-you can use 1 psychic power per player turn...so yes, you can cast holocaust in your shooting phase and then cast hammer hand during his assault phase.
-As long as Draigo is attached to the paladins, his Hammerhand will apply to them also. When he activates his force weapon though, it only applies to his attacks and vice versa (the paladins' force weapon activation only applies to their attacks).

If you're using Draigo, I would suggest bumping up to a full 10-man paladin squad since they count as TR anyway. As for power armored GKs, I always like having a unit or two of Strikes so I can get a RB or two.

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"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: 2000 pts vs Blood Angels New List Advice Needed

Post by Nemesis356 on Fri Dec 30, 2011 11:01 am

Correct me if I'm wrong, but terminator models take two transport spots, right? So if I wanted to move them around in transport the best I could do is take the Land Raider Crusader and put Draigo and 7 pallies in, correct? The reason I have stuck with 5 in the new list is that I discovered that 5 paladins with Draigo will wipe out a full squad of jump pack space marines and then demolish Dante and a full compliment of Sanguinary Guard with no issues, and all whilst me forgetting to use Hammerhand and not taking my +1 attack from the banner I had equipped at the time. I would think 10 paladins would kind of be an overkill waste of points? Also, that many paladins just gets way too confusing trying to mastercraft this and that and different weapons and whatnot and blabadeebloo. So Rivan, what about the thought of a libby with the 5 pallies? Hammerhand and Might of Titan? Eh? EH? That's alot of str 6 power weapon attacks!!!

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Re: 2000 pts vs Blood Angels New List Advice Needed

Post by Nemesis356 on Fri Dec 30, 2011 11:03 am

And, also clarify this - A Nemesis weapon is a force weapon, but if you do not activate the force weapon, it is still considered a power weapon that will ignore armor saves, correct? The only reason one would want to spend the psychic power to activate the force weapons would be to take down a multiple wound unit such as other paladins, etc, right?

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Re: 2000 pts vs Blood Angels New List Advice Needed

Post by Rivan on Fri Dec 30, 2011 11:10 am

Yes to your question on force weapon being power weapons.

And yes, a model in terminator armor takes up 2 slots in a transport.

A libby is always a good support character that makes your units a lot more effective. Getting a libby and staying w/ 5 pallies leaves you a lot of points for another unit or two. I think a unit of Interceptors will complement your list well because it will give you more mobility to match the BA's mobility. Plus, like Sai said, they're the bane of scouts sitting in cover Razz

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"Though we face the power of hell, and death is at our side, we fear not, for the Emperor is with us through it all. If we live, we live for the Emperor. If we die, we die for the Emperor. So whether we live or die, we are the Emperor's. We are Grey Knights and this is why we came to be." --Grandmaster Rivan

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: 2000 pts vs Blood Angels New List Advice Needed

Post by Nemesis356 on Fri Dec 30, 2011 11:30 am

I think I'm almost sold on the librarian. I love Draigo, but man he is a ton of points. I think in a 2500 point game I couldn't go without him, but with the high cost of GK's even in a 2000 I'd like to cut the number of points in my HQ. How would you load out a Librarian to complement the Paladins? Here is my take:

Librarian
Storm Bolter / Sword (MC)
Might of Titan
Quicksilver

I'd like to give him a psychic attack too, but not sure if I should go with Smite, Vortex of Doom or Warp Rift. Any experience with those?

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Re: 2000 pts vs Blood Angels New List Advice Needed

Post by Rivan on Fri Dec 30, 2011 11:37 am

Warp rift definitely. Automatic pen on a vehicle hit and potential to remove ANY model (including eternal warriors) with no save cheers

You might want to consider Sanctuary too. Very useful against units assaulting you.

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"Though we face the power of hell, and death is at our side, we fear not, for the Emperor is with us through it all. If we live, we live for the Emperor. If we die, we die for the Emperor. So whether we live or die, we are the Emperor's. We are Grey Knights and this is why we came to be." --Grandmaster Rivan

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: 2000 pts vs Blood Angels New List Advice Needed

Post by Nemesis356 on Fri Dec 30, 2011 11:48 am

I think after watching Draigo and 5 pallies maul 12 space marines and then poontanging his Dante and Guard wonder unit without losing a single model I've put the fear of god into him when it comes to asaulting me. He pretty much ran the rest of his units away and let me poorly roll myself to death the rest of the game. I would have thought that two psyfledreads and a razorback with a lascannon could deal with one stormraven and one baal predator, but apparently not. Now trying to decide what else to take with the extra points of not going with Draigo.

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Re: 2000 pts vs Blood Angels New List Advice Needed

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