Looking for some advice to round off my 2000 points list

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Looking for some advice to round off my 2000 points list

Post by TheCrimsonGlass on Sat Jul 23, 2011 10:55 am

Hey everyone, I feel like this list has the most potential compared to any of my other lists. I've got the core of my list pretty solid. I'm not seeing changing up what I have more than minor changes unless their are some very good points as to why some part of it is just plain bad. I am really just having trouble with the last 495 points. So here's the list so far (I now realize that it may seem as though I'm trying to turn a 1500 point list into a 2000 point list, but I'm not; The fact that what I currently have in this list adds up to 1505 points is pure coincidence):

HQ
GM - 220
Rad, psychotroke, and blind grenades, MC sword, digital weapons

Elites
7 Paladins - 485
MC psycannon & halberd
MC psycannon & hammer
Brotherhood banner & SB
Warding Stave & SB
MC halberd & SB
Halberd & SB
Hammer & SB

Troops
10 GKSS - 270
2 Psycannons, 1 hammer (on justicar), rhino

10 GKSS - 270
2 Psycannons, 1 hammer (on justicar), rhino

Heavy Support
LRC - 260
Psybolt ammo

The GM and Paladins would get in the LRC. The only major change I can think would make sense would be to remove 1 or both of the GKSS's, add Coteaz, and add a bunch of henchman, because I feel like that would synergize relatively well with the high points cost of the Paladins. Thoughts on this switch would be appreciated.

So I've got a few options from this point. I could add 2 ven psyflemen with 105 points left over to spend on something else. I could add 1 ven psyfleman (although I don't see this as being a good idea) and add Coteaz with 200 points worth of henchmen. I could add 1 stormraven as a high strength support gunship that can pick up models if needed (maybe even add hurricane bolters and psy-ammo for more fire power) then add Coteaz and 190 points worth of henchmen (or just 190 points worth of something else). I think my best bet would be to add the ven dreads. Thoughts and opinions are all welcome.

Note: This is a cross-post from BoLS.

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Re: Looking for some advice to round off my 2000 points list

Post by nevek on Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:51 pm

well id get rid of the gm and put in draigo...he really adds durablity to them and makes them a troop choice so u can use the gm ability to give them something else

psy dreads, normal or venerable would really help out...

psybolt ammo on the lrc is kinda pointless as it turns the tornado bolters into non defensive weapons...best to leave it off so u can fire them more often

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Re: Looking for some advice to round off my 2000 points list

Post by Rivan on Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:20 pm

Interesting that you didn't give your pallies 1 or 2 special weapons. I can understand the reasoning since they're in the LRC until they assault. But the fact that they're Relentless is too good to pass up. Also, in the event that their ride gets knocked out before they get to assault, they can do some real damage. Just my two cents on that.

If you're considering psyflemen dreads, why not just regular psyflemen, that saves you a total of 120pts. I think you may still have enough to get a 10-man squad of purifiers or go with Coteaz and a war band.

While I do like the SR, I think adding all the extras to it might be a waste. It is not resilient enough have all the upgrades IMO. I'm actually seriously considering removing it from my tourney list.

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"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: Looking for some advice to round off my 2000 points list

Post by Souba on Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:23 pm

i really dont understand the reason to switch to draigo. sure scoring paladins are nice but their job is not to stand on objectives, he wouldnt buy a LRC then. draigo is good for footslogging pallys.

i would give the GM a incinerator, 5 points for a S6 template before charging into combat? yes please!

i would say go get 2 psyrifle dreads and grab a 7 man squad interceptors with one incinerator, give the juisticar a hammer.
the psyrifle dreads do the job they are destined for and the interceptors are there to thin out infantry and vehicles (from behind of course) and to give your unit an additional speed factor the army is missing right now. landraider are not slow, but they arent fast either. interceptors make great gap fillers to adjust if the enemy switches tactics.


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Re: Looking for some advice to round off my 2000 points list

Post by Rivan on Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:39 pm

Concur, a GM w/ rad & psychostroke grenades gives a whole lot more to the pally squad they're attached to. Draigo is good for absorbing instant-kill wounds when you're footslogging.

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"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: Looking for some advice to round off my 2000 points list

Post by Zealadin on Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:47 am

Yea you only take Draigo if you absolutely need him to make Pallies troops, ie in a draigo wing army. The pally squads are too expensive to include much else and have to fill your troop slots, or your army isn't legal.

My new 1500 point list is 15 Pallies, Draigo, Lib. If I could get rid of Draigo I'd be happy but not really possible without a total change in the list.

Should also take incinerators at the very least on pallies. In some situations (hordes) it will be better to be able to do some massive damage straight up. You do have holocaust but Incins are pretty deadly. (Like against say banshees or incubi, or even TH/SS pallies.)

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Re: Looking for some advice to round off my 2000 points list

Post by TheCrimsonGlass on Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:10 am

I do have special weapons on the pallies: 2 MC psycannons. Incinerators are good, but I think I like the psycannons better. The reason I didn't put the incinerator on the GM was because he's BS 6, so I felt like I was wasting his good BS haha. I'll definitely trade the psybolt ammo on the LRC for a 'cinnie on the GM (I forgot about making them not defensive weapons). I'm thinking I'll add 2 regular psyrifle dreads for sure. I'd like to add another vehicle from there (I'm no good at using interceptors wisely; I think my playstyle is "slow and steady wins the race"), and I don't really have enough points for Coteaz and a bunch of henchmen after adding the dreads. With that in mind, an Ordo Malleus =I= with termie armor and psycannon inside a chimera containing a jokaero and 3 MM servitors seems to give me some well-needed melta fire in addition to another vehicle so that the rhinos don't get obliterated turn 1. From there, I think I'll go with MC'ing the hammers on the GKSS's (I've found that I really want those hammers to not miss, and they often do...) and adding a multi-melta to the LRC for some more melta fire. I feel like some servo skulls would help out against infiltrators and scouts more than digital weapons on the GM would, so I'm going to trade the digital weapons for 3 servo skulls.

I'm agreeing that Draigo really doesn't add as much to the paladin squad as much as a GM with grenades.

So here's the list as it stands now:

HQ
GM - 220
Incinerator, rad, psychotroke, and blind grenades, MC sword

Ordo Malleus Inquisitor - 89
Terminator armor, daemon hammer, psycannon, 3 servo skulls

Elites
7 Paladins - 485
MC psycannon & halberd
MC psycannon & hammer
Brotherhood banner & SB
Warding Stave & SB
MC halberd & SB
Halberd & SB
Hammer & SB

Henchmen Warband - 120
1 multi-melta servitor, 2 heavy bolter servitors, 1 jokaero weaponsmith, chimera

Troops
10 GKSS - 270
2 Psycannons, 1 MC hammer (on justicar), rhino

10 GKSS - 270
2 Psycannons, 1 MC hammer (on justicar), rhino

Heavy Support
LRC - 270
Multi-Melta

2xPsyfleman - 135 each

Total: 1999

I guess I can slap a searchlight on one of the rhinos.

Let me know what you think and if there's anything you see that needs changing.

Thanks everyone Smile


Last edited by BrentK on Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:13 pm; edited 3 times in total

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Re: Looking for some advice to round off my 2000 points list

Post by Rivan on Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:41 am

@BrentK: My bad, not sure why I didn't see the psycannons in there the first time...I guess it comes with old age Razz

I like your list a lot! I may want to try it out myself Smile

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"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: Looking for some advice to round off my 2000 points list

Post by TheCrimsonGlass on Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:45 am

Go for it! I often wish this forum had a "thumbs up" emoticon, like now for instance! Instead, I will just use this one: cheers

On a related note, I forgot to change the psybolt ammo/'cinnie, so I've edited the post to reflect the addition of the 'cinnie on the GM and the lack of psybolt ammo on the LRC.

Another reason I love the GM is that even though I've only got 2 troops choices, I know that at least the paladins will always be scoring. Having them bust through the enemy's defenses and hold their ground on an objective will just be awesome Twisted Evil

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Re: Looking for some advice to round off my 2000 points list

Post by Rivan on Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:56 am

BrentK wrote:Another reason I love the GM is that even though I've only got 2 troops choices, I know that at least the paladins will always be scoring. Having them bust through the enemy's defenses and hold their ground on an objective will just be awesome Twisted Evil

Yup it is! Very Happy


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"Though we face the power of hell, and death is at our side, we fear not, for the Emperor is with us through it all. If we live, we live for the Emperor. If we die, we die for the Emperor. So whether we live or die, we are the Emperor's. We are Grey Knights and this is why we came to be." --Grandmaster Rivan

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: Looking for some advice to round off my 2000 points list

Post by TheCrimsonGlass on Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:58 am

Well now that you've helped me get psyched up about running this list, you should buy me some of the models I still need for it Razz [kidding, of course]

On a related note, I don't see any individual MM servitors on the GW site. I don't really feel like paying top dollar for the techmarine/servitor finecast box, so what would you do for the servitor models?

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Re: Looking for some advice to round off my 2000 points list

Post by Rivan on Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:40 pm

I guess ebay would be the best bet.

Not meaning to hijack your thread by any means but I just wanted to show you my version (tweaked to my personal preferences). But its essentially the same list as yours in philosophy.

HQ - GM w/ NWS, incinerator, rad, P/S
HQ - OMI w/ TDA, hammer, psycannon, 3 skulls
EL - 6 x Paladins (2 psycannons, banner, NWS, assorted weapons)
EL - 4 x IHW (2 HB servitors, 1 MM servitor, 1 jokaero); chimera
TR - 10 x GKSS (2 psycannons; hammer, psybolts); RB w/ TWLLC
TR - 10 x GKSS (2 psycannons; hammer); Rhino
HS - LRC w/ psybolts
HS - Psyfleman dread
HS - Psyfleman dread

I wanted a little more anti-infantry shooting w/ the heavy blotters and also wanted another S9 lascannon in there.

Like I said, I love your list so I'm dying to try this list out!

EDIT: I think I may some more points left over too.

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"Though we face the power of hell, and death is at our side, we fear not, for the Emperor is with us through it all. If we live, we live for the Emperor. If we die, we die for the Emperor. So whether we live or die, we are the Emperor's. We are Grey Knights and this is why we came to be." --Grandmaster Rivan

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: Looking for some advice to round off my 2000 points list

Post by TheCrimsonGlass on Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:00 pm

No worries on the hijack. I'm pretty much done, and it's nice to compare our lists. With that in mind the differences are:

1. Stave instead of sword on the GM and removal of blind grenades.
2. 6 Paladins instead of 7.
3. 2 Servitors changed to heavy bolter instead of all multi-melta.
4. Psybolt ammo on 1 GKSS and transport changed to razorback w/ TLLC.
5. Multi-melta removed from LRC and psybolt ammo added.

So my analysis of the changes:
1. I personally feel like 35 points is too expensive to change a 3++ to a 2++ (especially since it's only in CC). Any particular reason you removed the blind grenades? I feel like they could be useful, and they are only 5 points.
2. I'm assuming you either wanted to save some points, you intend to put the OMI in the LRC with the rest of the group, or both. I can't argue with wanting to save points, but if you're putting the OMI in the LRC, then you'll have to worry about the servitors being mind-locked. My personal preference is to not have to concern myself with that. Also, if the OMI isn't going to be in the chimera, then you might as well find some room for 1 more cheap model to use all the chimera's fire ports.
3. I like this change actually. I'll probably make 1 of my servitors have a HB as well. Good call.
4. I tend to hide my GKSS's in their rhinos as long as the rhino isn't destroyed, so I don't take any psybolt ammo with them as it usually doesn't really get used. However, since you have changed to the RB, I'm assuming you'll be combat squadding the GKSS with half in the RB and half on foot. I'm not a fan of combat squadding my strike squads, but to each his own. I will note that throwing the lascannon in there is probably a good move if you're getting rid of 2 of the MM's on the servitors.
5. I removed the psybolt ammo from my LRC because I wanted the Hurricane Bolters to still be defensive weapons. I'm basically favoring shooting more at S4 over shooting less at S5. I also like the MM on the LRC because it allows for the LRC to pop a tank then the paladins can get out and mop up the tank's squishy insides. I would especially keep the MM on the LRC if I got rid of 2 MM's on the servitors.

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Re: Looking for some advice to round off my 2000 points list

Post by Rivan on Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:38 pm

Interesting analyses. Here are my thoughts:
1. I actually still have some points left over and the blind grenades will probably make it back in there. As for the 2++ save, I feel it just makes the GM a veritable beast in CC. It practically guarantees that he'll survive longer and the longer he survives, the longer the paladin squad remain an uber unit in CC. I've actually already experienced where my GM rolled double 1's for Hammerhand and easily made the 2 invul saving throws of 2++ Smile
2. The OMI will still stay w/ the IHW to negate mindlock (and to give them stubborn). I just reduced 1 paladin to make room for the the RB and NWS for the GM.
4. My plan for the 10-man squad w/ psybolts is to deploy them as normal, or come in from the board edge, or DS. However it is, I'll usually try to take advantage of unleashing all S5 shots + psycannon shots. I would rarely combat squad them.
5. Yeah, the MM on the LRC is probably worth it. That's probably where the extra points will go. As for psybolts, I reckon I'll be moving my LRC at cruising speed most of the time to get my HQ unit in the thick of it so I can only fire one weapon anyway. Might as well have the S7 rending IMO. When I do move 6", I can have up to 6 S5 shots w/ 1 sponson (assuming I'm within rapid fire range) in addition to the asscan. Lastly, if the asscan gets blown off (usually the first to go), then I'll still have heavy bolter equivalent shots to pump out Very Happy Howerver, if I'm getting a MM, then no psybolts. Just personal preference really.

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"Though we face the power of hell, and death is at our side, we fear not, for the Emperor is with us through it all. If we live, we live for the Emperor. If we die, we die for the Emperor. So whether we live or die, we are the Emperor's. We are Grey Knights and this is why we came to be." --Grandmaster Rivan

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: Looking for some advice to round off my 2000 points list

Post by TheCrimsonGlass on Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:52 pm

1. I also forgot that you've mentioned before that you already have a sweet GM model that has the stave. If this were the case for me then I'd always find room for the stave as well Wink .
4. This is probably not a bad idea as well. You get an extra lascannon, and you already have 3 skulls out there. I may have to experiment with this in the future. For now, however, I'm going to keep the rhino.
5. That's not a bad point about typically moving at cruising speed anyways. Especially since the S5 makes it possible to be anti-light tank. 6 S5 shots would have a much better chance of taking out an opposing rhino/RB. I may have to experiment with this in the future as well (provided I feel like I need to be able to pop more rhinos/RB than the dreads can on their own). Why no psybolts with the MM? Is it just because you don't want to put 15 more points into the LRC? You don't have to remove anything to add the MM.

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Re: Looking for some advice to round off my 2000 points list

Post by Rivan on Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:56 pm

Well, its more because if I move 6", I would probably want to fire the asscan and the MM so the S5 hurricane bolters will be useless unless I don't move at all. Might as well keep it at S4 so I can fire them as defensive weapons along with the MM and asscan.

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"Though we face the power of hell, and death is at our side, we fear not, for the Emperor is with us through it all. If we live, we live for the Emperor. If we die, we die for the Emperor. So whether we live or die, we are the Emperor's. We are Grey Knights and this is why we came to be." --Grandmaster Rivan

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: Looking for some advice to round off my 2000 points list

Post by TheCrimsonGlass on Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:58 pm

Aha! I didn't think of that. I guess that would be something you learn from the experience of actually using the LRC, which I have yet to do. I really need to finish building that darn model...

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