My Local Metagame Favors the 2000 pts Games

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My Local Metagame Favors the 2000 pts Games

Post by TheCrimsonGlass on Sat Jun 11, 2011 6:13 pm

I made a 1500 point army that can be found here: [1500 point army link]

I have since realized what this topic's title states, so here is essentially the same army with changes for 2000 points:

HQ
Draigo@275

Troops
10 Pallies@655 w/ 4 Psycannons, 1 BH Banner, 2 hammers, 1 sword, and the rest halberds
10 GKSS@265 w/ 2 Psycannons and a Rhino w/ a 5-point option equipped (haven't decided which one)

Fast Attack
10 Interceptors@260 w/ 2 Psycannons, and 1 Hammer

Heavy Support
Dreadnought@135 w/ 2 TL Autocannons and Psybolt Ammo (aka Psyfleman)
Dreadnought@135 w/ 2 TL Autocannons and Psybolt Ammo (again, aka Psyfleman)
Dreadknight@245 w/ Heavy Incinerator, Hammer, and Personal Teleporter

Comes to 2000 points on the nose.

I am considering removing the Psybolt Ammo from the Interceptors in favor of giving the Paladins 1 extra Psycannon, thoughts and opinions on that proposal?

The additional Psyfleman is there for obvious reasons. The dreadknight can lay down some serious hurt while taking the attention away from the other squads as I imagine something that large would be subject of some real attention. I decided the SS needed to be in a rhino because they would be pretty vulnerable on foot, especially at the 2000 point arena within which all the stops have been pulled for essentially every army. I added 2 psycannons and a banner to the paladins for that extra "umph". Let me know what you think!

Most sincerely,
Brent


Last edited by BrentK on Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:00 pm; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : Removed psybolt ammo from IS to add an additional psycannon to pallies.)

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Re: My Local Metagame Favors the 2000 pts Games

Post by Aubec le noir on Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:47 am

a strong one here !
if you combat squad it makes you 4 operational units or only 2 KP in annihilation games ... good points
in place of 2 dreads i would have prefered a LR cause it gives you more mobility option, and a pal unit in it can charge and that is what they are born for !! ... but that's my choice, if you love dreads go with them Wink
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Re: My Local Metagame Favors the 2000 pts Games

Post by TheCrimsonGlass on Sun Jun 12, 2011 9:56 pm

I think the pallies will be able to footslog effectively, but we'll just have to wait and see for when I actually play with them. Also I feel like those 2 dreds are some well-needed long range fire support. I'll certainly give an update on how the army performs ASAP.

Brent

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Re: My Local Metagame Favors the 2000 pts Games

Post by DonFer on Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:38 am

I too consider you are lacking mobility. Palies might be tough but not inmortal, and any AP2 Pieplate or rapid firing squad can make your day before the even lay down the first CC attack. A clever opponent will focus fire on your squads before going to your heavy support. Remember, @ 2000 pts most armies pack 50+ models and tanks, which often means a lot of dakka, speacially AP2 and AP1 shots. An in this list, loosing even one paladin, will hurt you greatly (50+ points per model is nothing to laugh about. For comparison, 1 rhino costs 40 points).

Also 7 psycannons for this kind of points game is low, which means you're relying heavily on your dreads to kill tanks. Keep in mind those AV14 tanks, which will be a pain in the butt to remove.

Consider that while 2000 pts allows you a lot more options to put in your army, your opponent too has the option of putting something nasty in there.

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Re: My Local Metagame Favors the 2000 pts Games

Post by TheCrimsonGlass on Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:34 am

DonFer wrote:I too consider you are lacking mobility. Palies might be tough but not inmortal, and any AP2 Pieplate or rapid firing squad can make your day before the even lay down the first CC attack.
Would DSing the pallies help make up for the mobility issue a little bit, Or would that be too risky without the use of a homer/skull? Also on the note of DSing, if I DS Drago, do I still activate Grand Strategy at the beginning of the game? Also would I still be able to manipulate reserve rolls with him if he himself is in reserve?

I really just feel like I would be lacking some well-needed fire support without the dreds...

DonFer wrote:Also 7 psycannons for this kind of points game is low, which means you're relying heavily on your dreads to kill tanks. Keep in mind those AV14 tanks, which will be a pain in the butt to remove.
I suspected this was the case, so I will remove the psybolt ammo from the IS and put another psycannon on the pallies. Thanks for the advice.

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Re: My Local Metagame Favors the 2000 pts Games

Post by DonFer on Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:02 am

While Deepstriking is always interesting to use, in our case it is more than a hit-and-miss issue. Without the help of Servo Skulls, we'll be scattering the hell out of our landing zone, which means there's a big possibility of landing just where our opponent wants (in front of his heavy guns). So deepstriking is not adviced if you're not packing Servos.

Still for deepstriking your unit should have the firepower to lay down a d-cent ammount of dakka, so that the shooting phase after deepstriking makes a difference. Remember pie plates are more effective on units that deepstrike. And most pie plates are AP2 or high strength.

Oh and no need of dropping the Dreads, you can just add some kind of transport for your palis.

PS. yes you can use the GMs abilities even when you deepstrike.


Last edited by DonFer on Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:17 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: My Local Metagame Favors the 2000 pts Games

Post by TheCrimsonGlass on Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:08 am

DonFer wrote:So deepstriking is not adviced if you're not packing Servos.

Still for deepstriking your unit should have the firepower to lay down a d-cent ammount of dakka, so that the shooting phase after deepstriking makes a difference. Remember pie plates are more effecting on units that deepstrike. And most pie plates are AP2 or high strength.

PS. yes you can use the GMs abilities even when you deepstrike.
Thanks and good to know.
DonFer wrote:Oh and no need of dropping the Dreads, you can just add some kind of transport for your palis.
But I'm already at 2000 points, so I would need to make up for the points cost of a LR in order to include one. The most obvious way of doing this is by removing the dreds (or maybe the whole IS? But that would change my entire strategy in addition to removing 10 whole models from the board).

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Re: My Local Metagame Favors the 2000 pts Games

Post by DonFer on Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:15 am

How about dropping 2 Palis? They're 50+ points each. That's a good 100 pts. right there. A chimera could be quite nice....

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Re: My Local Metagame Favors the 2000 pts Games

Post by TheCrimsonGlass on Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:20 am

DonFer wrote:How about 2 Palis? they're 50+ points. there's a good 100 pts. A chimera could be quite nice....
It would actually be 140 points: for every 5 pallies you get 2 psycannons, so I could only have a maximum of 2 psycannons with 8 pallies. This would remove 2 psycannons though...
On the topic of chimeras: Do terminator armor units count as taking up 2 slots in the chimeras? If so, then Drago would be stuck footslogging (which I guess isn't actually so bad).

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Re: My Local Metagame Favors the 2000 pts Games

Post by DonFer on Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:45 am

Yeah they take 2 slots. Not even then can you manage to put all your palis in one transport.

scratch mmmmh, try to add and Inquisitor then , minimum equipment and servo skulls. That way you can deep strike to your heart's contempt. You'll have to loose some equipment but nothing that hurts too much.

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Re: My Local Metagame Favors the 2000 pts Games

Post by TheCrimsonGlass on Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:53 am

DonFer wrote:Yeah they take 2 slots. Not even then can you manage to put all your palis in one transport.

scratch mmmmh, try to add and Inquisitor then , minimum equipment and servo skulls. That way you can deep strike to your heart's contempt. You'll have to loose some equipment but nothing that hurts too much.
Now that's not a bad idea! Especially since I was going to just run 1 HQ anyways. I'll obviously have to break out the Codex for that, and I'm at work for the next 5.5 hours. I'll handle that when I get home. Thanks for the advice!

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Re: My Local Metagame Favors the 2000 pts Games

Post by TheCrimsonGlass on Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:05 am

Okay so off the top of my head:

Inquisitor costs 25 points w/ 5 extra points for each skull up to 3 skulls max.
Would just taking 2 skulls still be viable? That would be 35 points for me to find. Otherwise I'm looking at 40.

I could take away the Banner and the 5-point add-on from the Rhino, and that gives me 1 skull. Not sure what else to get rid of. Maybe a psycannon from the SS? That gives me the 40 points I need for 3 skulls, but is it worth losing the banner?

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Re: My Local Metagame Favors the 2000 pts Games

Post by TheCrimsonGlass on Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:31 pm

DonFer wrote:PS. yes you can use the GMs abilities even when you deepstrike.
So after some googling, I've found that the general consensus is that you cannot use psychic communion while the psyker who possesses the ability is in reserve. This contradicts the quoted statement. Unless you were only referring to Grand Strategy of course... Could you shed some light on the subject?

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Re: My Local Metagame Favors the 2000 pts Games

Post by TheCrimsonGlass on Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:22 pm

Brothers after consulting that grey wrinkly thing in my head, I think I've figured it out!

If I remove 1 Paladin then I also must remove 2 psycannons. I then remove the BH Banner.
I then add an Ordo Malleus inquisitor with the terminator armor/storm bolter/NDH option, the psycannon option (replacing the SB), the psyker mastery level 1 w/ hammerhand option, and 3 servo skulls. All for a mere 119 points. My strategy would then be to attach the OM inquisitor to the pally squad, essentially replacing the paladin that was removed.

In summary the pally squad has lost 1 member with termie armor, 2 psycannons, and a BH Banner. It then gains 1 member with termie armor, 1 psycannon, 1 usage of HH for the whole squad, 3 servo skulls. The gained member also has one lower WS, S, and T, but one extra wound and one higher leadership. The best part is that this will be easy to model, as one of my pallies with a psycannon is holding a hammer Very Happy. I also don't have to drop $15 on an inquisitor (although I'm going to be changing the head at some point if I do this). Personally, I think this is worth it. The loss of the banner isn't the end of the world, so the only real LOSS is 1 out of 8 psycannons in my army. This, I believe, is overshadowed by the additional HH usage and the solution to the squad's mobility problems.

Additionally, I will be removing the 5 point add-on for the rhino in favor of making one of the halberds mastercrafted. This is not only a better usage of the 5 points, but it gives me better wound allocation as well.

Please provide thoughts and opinions on these changes!

Brent

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Re: My Local Metagame Favors the 2000 pts Games

Post by DonFer on Tue Jun 14, 2011 7:24 am

BrentK wrote:
DonFer wrote:PS. yes you can use the GMs abilities even when you deepstrike.
So after some googling, I've found that the general consensus is that you cannot use psychic communion while the psyker who possesses the ability is in reserve. This contradicts the quoted statement. Unless you were only referring to Grand Strategy of course... Could you shed some light on the subject?

Yes I was referring to the Grad Strategy which it is an ability, not a psychic power. You cannot use some Psychic power of a character that is not on the battlefield.

On the changes on your army I think you just nailed it. Now it's time to take the army for a ride. Let us know how it does in battle. Good luck. The Emperor Protects.

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Re: My Local Metagame Favors the 2000 pts Games

Post by TheCrimsonGlass on Tue Jun 14, 2011 7:55 am

DonFer wrote:On the changes on your army I think you just nailed it. Now it's time to take the army for a ride. Let us know how it does in battle. Good luck. The Emperor Protects.
Thanks, I actually got pretty darned excited when I thought of this. I'll be testing it this weekend.

Brent

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Re: My Local Metagame Favors the 2000 pts Games

Post by Corennus on Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:04 am

I'm thinking at 2000 points you could be easily overhwelmed by many (less powerful) enemy units that will wear your expensive paladins down. Without anything else to fall back on and your dreadnoughts targets for suicide melta without support.....I think Draigo list is a tricky proposition for anything under Apocalypse points.

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Re: My Local Metagame Favors the 2000 pts Games

Post by TheCrimsonGlass on Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:16 am

Corennus wrote:I think Draigo list is a tricky proposition for anything under Apocalypse points.
Maybe so, but I'm passed that stage... In my 1500 point army that I linked to I said that I am well aware that Draigo and his Paladins are expensive, but it just feels right. I like everything about them.

I mean, sure I could take out Draigo and the Paladins, but then I might as well just make a new list (which I actually have quite a few of).

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Re: My Local Metagame Favors the 2000 pts Games

Post by Aubec le noir on Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:44 am

I made a 1500 points full termies draigo list and till now it work pretty well even against Tau
i thinks it's pretty tough.
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Re: My Local Metagame Favors the 2000 pts Games

Post by TheCrimsonGlass on Tue Jun 14, 2011 2:26 pm

So I'm trying to think of a good conversion for the inquisitor. I want him to fit in with the paladins, but I also want him to stand out (he is and inquisitor after all). This is not only for obvious reasons, but also because I'm thinking up a backstory for him as well (which I will share when I finish it).

So here's what I'm thinking so far:

1. Have him wearing GK terminator armor. This will part of the backstory, as well as preventing me from having to purchase a terminator model when I already have the extra GK one.

2. The paladins all wear some manner of book, sword, or something like that behind there head (the part that sticks up; don't know if it actually has a name). The inquisitor will do the same, but I want it to be the inquisitorial =I=. Very much like the model below.


3. Along the same lines, I will attach a blank tilt shield to the inquisitor's shoulder armor and paint the inquisitorial =I= on the shield.

4. I want him to not have a helmet (which all of my other models do, including Draigo). This will help set him apart from the entire army. I'll have to do some figuring out for what head I want to use. I may end up decapitating one of the other inquisitor models! Twisted Evil

5. I would like to include a cape. Not a plastic cape, but one more like the capes that come with Lego figures. It's a rigid fabric of some sort.
-5.1. If I could custom make some manner of hood that worked with all this stuff that would be cool too.

So, brothers, those are my plans. It will probably be quite some time before this guy actually exists, but I think it will make for a nice project. I'll be proxying him in the mean time.

Let me know what you think!

Brent


P.S. Should I post this in a new thread? I mean, this is more of a comment on model making than the actual army...

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Re: My Local Metagame Favors the 2000 pts Games

Post by Torqameda on Tue Jun 14, 2011 2:55 pm

Just a word on the Paladin list you have: if your opponent has a ton of Plasma and AP1/2 weaponry, make sure to play conservatively (unless you plan on somehow using your Paladins as a ridiculously expensive diversion for your less specialized units...) with them. And if you find that they have AV14 that you simply can't seem to ding at range, you could replace a Psyfleman (135 pts.) for a Vindicare Assassin (145 pts) and remove 10 points elsewhere

From the past few games I have played (I've been focusing on whether or not I like a Purifier-ran game or not), I have come to realize how valuable the Vindicare Assassin can be versus vehicles (Turbo Penetrator: 4D6 Armor Pen.). Granted you lose an effective 12" in range, but you still have 36" with BS8 (so God forbid you roll a 1, you can still re-roll for that 4). Likewise, you can infiltrate him into a nice position if the terrain you have has specific choke points. On the down-side, you (of course) lose the two shots from the Psyrifle which will generally inflict instant death for regular infantry and pummel low AV vehicles.

Just a thought, anyways.

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Re: My Local Metagame Favors the 2000 pts Games

Post by TheCrimsonGlass on Wed Jun 15, 2011 2:56 pm

One of the reasons I included the DK was for AV. Additionally, the S10 hammer swings from the shunting IS is another option for AV. I know it's not a ton of AV, but I was going to test it out before trying to switch it up.

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Too Bold?

Post by TheCrimsonGlass on Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:19 pm

Okay, so this may be crazy, but I've thought of another solution to the mobility issue.

1. Make it 5 Paladins instead of 9.
2. Remove the 3 Servo Skulls from the Inquisitor
3. Add a Stormraven with TL multi-melta and and teleport homer.

Strategy: Have the Inquisitor in the same squad as the IS. Put the Inquisitor/IS and DK in reserve. Put Draigo and Paladins in the SR. Move flat-out in the beginning of the game. Drop Draigo/Paladins. Draigo will be using Psychic Communion to bring in the Inquisitor/IS and DK ASAP. the Inquisitor/IS and DK use the SR's teleport homer for an accurate DS. After the DS, the Inquisitor leaves the IS and joins the Paladins. All the while the Rhino with the SS and Psyflemen will be performing their standard operating procedures. It seems to me as though this solves both the mobility and the Anti-Vehicle problems.

So what do you guys think?

EDIT: This leaves me with the same amount of psycannons, full Wound Allocation with the Pallies, and 10 extra points to give the Justicar in the SS a fancy Hammer.

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Re: My Local Metagame Favors the 2000 pts Games

Post by Torqameda on Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:20 pm

Actually, that sounds like a pretty good approach to getting everything across the field. The only real problem is how easy it is to ding a Stormraven and destroy it, or so people claim. I have never personally used a Stormraven since I have usually preferred either relying on DS'ing my Termies/Paladins where I want them or using Chimeras/Land Raiders.

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Re: My Local Metagame Favors the 2000 pts Games

Post by TheCrimsonGlass on Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:27 pm

I thought about that, but I'm essentially guaranteed one flat-out movement by it. By that point, I'm at least half-way across the board. The pallies and Draigo are tough enough to survive the hit of being in an exploding vehicle pretty easilly, so I didn't think it would be an issue. Now the only problem then is I'll be stuck DS'ing a large chunk of my army w/out the teleport homer.

Hmm now that I think about it, if the SR were wrecked would its teleport homer still function? Obviously it wouldn't if the SR explodes...

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Re: My Local Metagame Favors the 2000 pts Games

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