OUR SUGGESTION FOR THE NEW DAEMONHUNTERS-GREY KNIGHTS CODEX

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OUR SUGGESTION FOR THE NEW DAEMONHUNTERS-GREY KNIGHTS CODEX

Post by SIRSEAN on Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:27 am

I have no idea when GW is going to release the new book (some rumors talk about a new Inquisition codex, with all the options, just like the demons codex or the chaos codex)

But we can post our dreams and hopes... what do you like to see in the new book?

I like:

-bikes and jump packs, we need more fast attack

-and if they don't give us that, drop pods!

-heavy weapons: maybe a psycannon with AP 3

-all the storm bolters with AP 4 for free

-venerable dradnoughts, but really good ones!

-rhinos for our GK

and if you think that is too much...

-JUST MAKE ALL THE GK CHEAPER! imagine that the cost of GK, terminators etc is 5 points, just five points less...

-

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Re: OUR SUGGESTION FOR THE NEW DAEMONHUNTERS-GREY KNIGHTS CODEX

Post by NemesisForce on Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:30 am

There's only three things I'd like to see:

1) The Hero Brother Captain having two wounds instead of one. I'm ok with the BC as part of a Termie Elite choice still only having one wound.

2) Termies having 'True Grit'.

3) Assault Cannons having the same stats as Space Marine ones.

Maybe I'm also leaning for the Justicar to come down in price a bit. An extra 25 points for an additional attack and power weapon seems a bit hefty.

I agree we need more Fast Attack options SIRSEAN but (my humble opinion of course) having bikes, jump packs and rhinos would just make us too much like other Space Marines. Just more expensive. I like the simplicity and majesty that the Grey Knights convey now. Even if it means less tactical options and choices. I like the drop pod idea though.

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Re: OUR SUGGESTION FOR THE NEW DAEMONHUNTERS-GREY KNIGHTS CODEX

Post by Brother-Captain Validi on Wed Feb 27, 2008 12:44 pm

Termies already have two attacks and I think the extra attack in close combat with True Grit (in power armour) is because the Gauntlet-Mounted Storm Bolters makes it easier to move around in close combat, and having termie armour makes you less mobile, so I would rather they kept the termies not having True Grit

You don't need drop pods, if you wanted you could deep strike 30 GK in P A and 40 GK Termies (points permitting!!!)

The GK do need heavier weapons, so changing the psycannons AP to 3 would help a lot against CSM and lowering its cost a bit too along with the justicars cost

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Re: OUR SUGGESTION FOR THE NEW DAEMONHUNTERS-GREY KNIGHTS CODEX

Post by Klomster on Wed Feb 27, 2008 2:44 pm

5 points less for all models.

Or.

Shrouding 1d6 x 3 or 4 or 2d6 x 2

Now it just never work, it has worked like... twice for me.

Brother-captain with 2 wounds.

All greyknights +1 wound (Hehe, maybe not)

As it is now, a Chaos terminator costs 5 points more than a grey knight.
Oh, i forgot, a POWER ARMOURED grey knight.

And

More anti-chaos and deamon skills.
Now it's just OOOOOOh we remove inv saves.... awesome...... not. It is useful but all.... ALL enemies with inv save have 3+ save or better, and if they don't, they have funky rules that kill you anyway.

Better everything, kinda.

Some things are just broken, and i mean enemies.
Eldar hit first with their ugly puny 10 point or less Über-overpowered fancy pants.
Chaos have free(almost, compared to our stuff) upgrades that pwns our outnumbered awesome knights.

And everyone else is either very cheap and swamps us or have fancy, kill-deamonhunter rules that are just plain broken.

Or both.

How much does a khorne berserker cost?

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Re: OUR SUGGESTION FOR THE NEW DAEMONHUNTERS-GREY KNIGHTS CODEX

Post by SIRSEAN on Thu Feb 28, 2008 7:39 am

you have nice ideas, brothers...

I think that all the rules could be the same, but we could have another nice thing besides WS 5...

-maybe the same but with 5+ ward save for all?
-maybe 2 wounds for everyone, 3 for BC, and 4 for GM?
-maybe feel no pain?
-maybe more movement for all?

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Re: OUR SUGGESTION FOR THE NEW DAEMONHUNTERS-GREY KNIGHTS CODEX

Post by Klomster on Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:48 am

5+ inv save standard? Me likes.

Same points, same stats and a 5+ inv save for all, and upgrade the wargear inv saves 1 step.
F'ex making icon of the just a 3+ inv save. *Sadistic grin*

Or 6+ inv save for all and keep the wargear. Adjusting the points.

I personally don't want cheaper knights, that's just gonna make them fancy marines.
I want GREY KNIGHTS, not fancy marines so the knights should get better for no points increement.

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Re: OUR SUGGESTION FOR THE NEW DAEMONHUNTERS-GREY KNIGHTS CODEX

Post by NosMo on Fri Mar 07, 2008 5:44 pm

NemesisForce wrote:
3) Assault Cannons having the same stats as Space Marine ones.
.
Umm you might want to pick up Wargear. It fixes the Assault Cannon for the Grey Knights


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Re: OUR SUGGESTION FOR THE NEW DAEMONHUNTERS-GREY KNIGHTS CODEX

Post by Angelus Mortis on Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:03 pm

Absolutely, positively get rid of the stupid Daemonic Infestation rule. It was intended to balance Chaos a bit vs. DH, but in effect, not only balanced, but wiped out any advantage they would of had. Granted its not so much an issue now with the nerfed Daemons in C:CSM, but when C:Daemons comes out, its going to get stupid again. In that case, its going to be extremly stupid.

Also, I think the shrouding needs a serious buff. I dont even bother rolling it anymore as its only worked maybe 3 times in all the years since the codex came out.

I would also like to see Deepstrike as standard for all GK models (just Grey Knights, no IST, Inquisitors, etc). Perhaps a similar rule to the DAs Deathwing assault would be fluffy as well.

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Re: OUR SUGGESTION FOR THE NEW DAEMONHUNTERS-GREY KNIGHTS CODEX

Post by Justicar Dionitas on Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:43 pm

DS as a standard would be nice but teleport homers need to be aa free add on. All Ravenwing bikes have teleport homers built into the to basically get rid of the chance of scattering.

Demonic infestations is pure crap now that daemons don't have to take instability tests anymore.

If you saw my post about force weapons in 5th ed, you'll see they're getting hit with the nerf bat as well i.e. chaged to insta-kill (Adamantine mantle anyone? Demonic immunity to insta-kill?)

Some of the psychic powers need a revamp. Holocaust, Sanctuary, scourging

Of course the point costs need to be reduced


As it stands, the only place you can get away with having fast attack w/ grey knights is by using another SM chapters fast attack in an apocolypse game. I know that's what I did

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Re: OUR SUGGESTION FOR THE NEW DAEMONHUNTERS-GREY KNIGHTS CODEX

Post by Pyriel on Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:16 pm

Troops:
As they are now they are very overpriced and not up to date with the new CSM codex.
Troops should either:
-Get a point reduction.
-Get far cheaper psycannons (taking a 30p glorified heavy bolter that not only costs way to much but also utterly nerfs your GK in close comabt is plain stupid).
-Get more customisable justicars.
-Get Feel No Pain to justify their to high pointcosts.

Elites:
Terminators MUST be made competitive with otehr armies elite units. As tehy are today tehy are the best looking minis in the GW range but that´s it. To expencive for their fragility in close combat.
Either:
-Get them potent shooting upgrades that can have them stand toe to toe with SM and CSM terminators.
-Get them FnP.
-Get them +1 attack.
-Decrease their point cost significantly.

HQ:
We are the most accomplished hth fighters with the best traiing of all chapters yet ANY otehr SM and CSM HQ is far better at killing our HQs and terminators.
These changes MUST be implemented:
-Get +1 wound for the captain.
-Get +1 Initiative for both captain and grand master.
-Get upgrades for them so that they cannot be instant killed.
-Get +1 WS so that together with the initiative bonus they can at least be competitive with CSM HQs in close combat. As it is not GK HQs are a simple joke!!!

Fast:
Fast are perfectly ok as is. Bikes and JPs would make us to another SM chapter and honestly, somewhere there must be a penalty.
-Decrease point cost for psycannons.

Heavy:
Ah, this is a sore spot.
Both dreads AND LRs are taking up the same extremely valuble slot and that is as should be, it IS a kind of army penalty that also adds character and challenge.
However...ord dreads are a joke compared to CSM dreads.
Changes should be:
-Give dreads +1 attack.
Additional changes should be either:
-Give dreads option for a second DCCW (and an additional +1 A).
-Give dreads the shrouding special rule (for an extremely competitive heavy slot they are far far to fragile and non-lasting).

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Re: OUR SUGGESTION FOR THE NEW DAEMONHUNTERS-GREY KNIGHTS CODEX

Post by Guest on Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:32 am

Ok here's my 2p:

An improved (2W) Brother captain.

Re naming the Squad bought brother captain into a Justicar (I just cant see 4 Brother Captains turning up).

True Grit for GK termies (it fits with the fluff).

Holocaust s standard for GK termies bought i squads of 5+.

Psycannon bolts as a squad option for gk termies.

Attack bikes with appropriate weapons.

That's in for now.

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Re: OUR SUGGESTION FOR THE NEW DAEMONHUNTERS-GREY KNIGHTS CODEX

Post by Klomster on Sun Mar 09, 2008 2:16 pm

The only thing gk's need is serious un-nerfing.

As grey knights are far more expensive and far worse than any, yes ANY other troop type out there.

As for the elites, we are actually getting alot of deescent ideas here.

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Re: OUR SUGGESTION FOR THE NEW DAEMONHUNTERS-GREY KNIGHTS CODEX

Post by Guest on Mon Mar 10, 2008 2:21 am

I hear what you're saying about expensive troop types and up untill the adbent of the chaos codex would have agreed whole heartedly.

Now compare what we get for 25pts:

WS5, S6 (H2H), Storm Bolters, Aegis, Shrouding, Fearless, etc

To: Plague Marines, Ksons, Noise marines, etc

We're pretty balanced points wise with these and to be honest we don't have to spend more then 100pts on our compulsory troop choices in the first place.

Where we fall down is in the options we get to support our elite troops - either the best tank in the game or dreadnoughts. Nothing else. I feel our weakness lies in our lack speed (strange for a strike force) and hitting power. Our best ways to achieve these 2 things in mu opinion would be attack bike squadrons for things like multimeltas and land speeders.

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Re: OUR SUGGESTION FOR THE NEW DAEMONHUNTERS-GREY KNIGHTS CODEX

Post by SIRSEAN on Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:11 am

Land Speeders?

could be a nice model and nice addition to the army...

But I think that we need more movement... we are an assault army!

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Re: OUR SUGGESTION FOR THE NEW DAEMONHUNTERS-GREY KNIGHTS CODEX

Post by Guest on Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:21 am

Ahhh there's the rub.

Are we really an assault Army? Do we get frags? Do we get a bonus attack when we charge? Are we kitted out to close with the enemy?

I think we're a manouver army not an assault one.

Firstly we have storm bolters - a weapon designed to be fired on the move. Then we have the shrouding - this allows us to section off our opponents, picking on the peripherls of their force whilst hopefully keeping their heavies out of range.

Then we have Psycannons - a fire support weapon that we can manouver with when the opposition gets too close. Gk see no benefit from getting bogged down in assault - why give the daemon a chance to hit back? Move a few more inches away and a difficult terrain test can make all the difference. Our strength is that no one really wants to tangle with us in assault either.

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Re: OUR SUGGESTION FOR THE NEW DAEMONHUNTERS-GREY KNIGHTS CODEX

Post by Klomster on Mon Mar 10, 2008 2:44 pm

Ummmm, chaos beeing pointwise fair enemies...... riiiiiiight!!

Here is our power armoured grey knight, he costs 25.

Here is the chaos terminator of slanesh with power weapon.

30 (dunno if pw costs) or 32. pts.

What does a pw terminator initiative 5 do to our brave knight?
He kills him! No question about it.

As i always said, everyone else has better special rules and cheaper troops. There is no way you can make me think in another way!

And attack bikes..... am i the only one here that thinks that bikes don't fit elite troops that hunt deamons?

I can't think of a grey knight on a bike, it's wrong.

Oh and you iamnothere, we are that on paper, if we try to do that (or i try to do that) i get shot to bits, eaten by aliens, chaos space marines, eldar.

And then a snotling jumps on what is left of me.

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Re: OUR SUGGESTION FOR THE NEW DAEMONHUNTERS-GREY KNIGHTS CODEX

Post by Guest on Mon Mar 10, 2008 3:24 pm

Apart from that chaos termy is an elites choice where as plague marines etc arn't. So points wise we're roughly equivalent.

As much as you don't think that bikes fit GK, I think that attack bikes do - rapid deployment, fit in a thunder hawk, with the right options they would provide a nice touch to the list.

Looking at the other recent codei(?), the only way I can see us getting a points break is in bigger squads rather than per model. I really think we're going to get e bastardised version of combat squads, somthing like:

Justicar +4GK =150pts. May take 1 special weapon.

May add up to 5 GK at 20pts each. A squad of 10 GK can take a second special weapon.


Btw I like the glowing eyes on your Avatar.

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Re: OUR SUGGESTION FOR THE NEW DAEMONHUNTERS-GREY KNIGHTS CODEX

Post by Klomster on Mon Mar 10, 2008 4:29 pm

Oh, that one, stole it (;D)

I've seen another avatar that shows more of the same picture.

And for the thing you think will happen.

It would suck.

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Re: OUR SUGGESTION FOR THE NEW DAEMONHUNTERS-GREY KNIGHTS CODEX

Post by belissand on Mon Mar 10, 2008 4:33 pm

Analyzing stuff I would say:
General:
Psycannon Cheaper, maybe rendring or ap3
Shrouding like Night fight (that may be too much)
Not loosing your NFS when getting a special shooting weapon.


HQ:
-Better psy powers (so that we can have an excuse to use an Inq Lord)
-Rearrange cost of weaponry for the Inq
- Brother captain with 2 W and Ini 5
- GM possibly with WS 6 (as a chaos lord)
- Make the Inq and the retinue able to go HtH with better odds.

Elite:
- Termies with aditional weapon options (combiweapons?)

Troop:
- Inq Storm troopers with option to infiltrate or deep strike as IG do.
- A rhino-ish tank for transportation (maybe take a fast attack slot like the old Death Guard Rhinos). I have mixed feeling about this because we have storm bolters for shooting while moving, not to shine them in a rhino, however it would be nice sometimes to get to the Frigging middle of the table once in a while.

- lower cost on psycannons + the upgrade mentioned above.

Fast:
- 1 Rhino per 1 FA slot?... where do I sign?
- Not many ideas here that would distinguish us from a marine army, maybe some gravitic low armor stuff.

Heavy:
- Purgator squad with real heavy weapons, maybe an improvement of the psycannons (something autocannon like or maybe missile launcher like but with assault rule Very Happy). but you are already paying like an LC for a lousy Psycannon there.

- dread, if they move you to elite then we are doomed because you are our only ,overpriced, nearly decent, hellfire config, anti armor unit.

- Could someone talk to those on the ship and teach them how to AIM!


Last edited by belissand on Mon Mar 10, 2008 4:38 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: OUR SUGGESTION FOR THE NEW DAEMONHUNTERS-GREY KNIGHTS CODEX

Post by Klomster on Mon Mar 10, 2008 4:38 pm

Don't make the lance firing officer feel to bad, he's trying!

And luckily it isn't as a lance strike would be in fluff.

Though it should be able to change targets.


Oh and hi belyssad.

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Re: OUR SUGGESTION FOR THE NEW DAEMONHUNTERS-GREY KNIGHTS CODEX

Post by HOBO on Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:53 am

A lot of my suggestions are the same or similar to most of the others -
HQ
GM: WS6, safe from Insta-kill.
Inq/Lord: Useful Psychic Powers that are more powerful than a fart in the general direction of the Enemy.
A Retinue that is capable of putting up a decent fight in c/c.
BC: 2W

ELITE
BC: 2W
our GKT's are 6 pts dearer than both the SM Termi and the CSM Termi Champ, for which we are minus +1A to the CSM but +1WS, +2S (NFW), & +1Ld to both of them - worth it or not?
Inq: I would love to see them been capable in c/c, and their Retinue as well, and even moreso than the Lord.
The Lord is for Psychic Powers imo and Ld, not the rough stuff so much.

TROOP
our GK's are 7 pts dearer than a SM w/TG, and for that we get +1Ws, +2S (NFW) - worth it or not?
The Justicar should only be 10 pts dearer than a GK at most to my reckoning. Mind you I think he is the points he is because, in the Fluff at least, a Justicar can commands Terminators, so there isn't really a reason to see multiple BC's anyway...not that we do because not many of us take more than a GKT retinue anyways Crying or Very sad

HS
I don't mind it the way it is, although our Dreads should have the Venerable ability if taken as Elites, just maybe not called Venerable as our GK don't really like the idea. The thing I fear about making them Elite is that the GKT's might see even less action, and I would hate that personally. I reckon we should be able to take dedicated Transports and not use a HS slot, or be given a 4th slot like IW.

Overall the one thing I don't want to see is GK's becoming just another Space Marine Army, so I don't like the idea of Bikes, Landspeeders, hand held Assault Cannons etc. All the Background and Novels I've read have no mention of such things. Cheaper Psycannons yes, and with better Stats.
I think that GW made us 'play different' so much they may have difficulty fixing the list, and they probably don't have much sympathy for us for choosing not to use Allies/Inducted, as is how they intended it.


Last edited by HOBO on Tue Mar 11, 2008 2:34 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: OUR SUGGESTION FOR THE NEW DAEMONHUNTERS-GREY KNIGHTS CODEX

Post by Dvil on Tue Mar 11, 2008 2:14 am

iamnothere wrote:Looking at the other recent codei(?)

Words ending with -us have a plural ending in -i. Genii, hippopotami.

Words ending with -x have a plural ending in -ices. Codices, matrices.

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Re: OUR SUGGESTION FOR THE NEW DAEMONHUNTERS-GREY KNIGHTS CODEX

Post by Dvil on Tue Mar 11, 2008 2:15 am

Sorry to be a bit of a grammar junkie.

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Re: OUR SUGGESTION FOR THE NEW DAEMONHUNTERS-GREY KNIGHTS CODEX

Post by Guest on Tue Mar 11, 2008 2:46 am

No probs, I always get that wrong.

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Re: OUR SUGGESTION FOR THE NEW DAEMONHUNTERS-GREY KNIGHTS CODEX

Post by Justicar Dionitas on Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:29 am

Dvil wrote:
iamnothere wrote:Looking at the other recent codei(?)

Words ending with -us have a plural ending in -i. Genii, hippopotami.

Words ending with -x have a plural ending in -ices. Codices, matrices.

Believe it or not GW actually used Codexes. Yes we all know it's wrong but if GW put's it out it's canon right?


Last edited by Justicar Dionitas on Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:41 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: OUR SUGGESTION FOR THE NEW DAEMONHUNTERS-GREY KNIGHTS CODEX

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