THE LORDS OF TITAN HAVE ARRIVED!!!

At least I hope so... The more I think about it the more I like it: an assaut lead by Draigo with a pals retinue, and a purifiers squad ... The first in a SR, the other in a LRC... Expansive but suite deadly I guess!

we finally have an army with a lot of mobility ... motion is the key
Aubec

To be honest, the onlygood stuff 'bout the new gk's are (for me):

- some HQ units
- termies
- codex cover

The pagk are just too plain and sm like, the dreadknight is just awful and there's nothing more to say 'ugly and fcked up' to...

I don't mind the DK but I think I'll have to mod it quite a bit.
Above all else I like how it works, even though the model is a bit meh.

I like the rules that I've seen so far, but alot of the new models are actually worse than the old, particularly all the helms. They took away proper GK helms and gave them ugly SM helms instead.

Its a mixed bag from a purist pov

Many people dislike change. With the regards to the GK Venrable dreadnought, they missed the target. A BA Librarian dreadnought with halberd arm would have sufficed. I agree with the helms and it seems like cut corners.
A mixed bad indeed... a bag of d's nuts!!!

yeah i went to my local and had a flick through one thing i hate is how GK can have a halberd, sword, hammer or stave this just means having to buy more models to have these weapons repesented which of course is more money for GW

I'm usually one of the first guys in line callin' GW money-grubbers but I have to hand it to them that they at least didn't make our existing models obsolete to sell new ones. That's what I feared most. I'll pay a bit more money for the new NFW's models because at least they have decent upgrades that we can use.

Not to mention the normal GKPA box give you tons of other weapons to swap onto our old models. I.E. Halberds/Swords/Hammers. In one box you cant use half of the extra bits.

I haven't seen the sprue for the NDK yet in person, but does it look like the hands that carries the melee weapons (Sword and Hammer) can be swapped on the go?

Just looking at the image of the NDK on the page, and going between picture one and picture two, they look exactly the same (paint and model position) with the only difference is both the camera angle and the melee weapon (both images have psycannons on the right left arms).

I'm not sure if they are swappable, I saw it in the shop today holding the sword, but couldn't tell if each weapon comes with a hand attached.

NemesisForce wrote:I'm usually one of the first guys in line callin' GW money-grubbers but I have to hand it to them that they at least didn't make our existing models obsolete to sell new ones. That's what I feared most. I'll pay a bit more money for the new NFW's models because at least they have decent upgrades that we can use.

I don't see how this is true in the least. Only justicar models are useable now, since halberds (current generation GK weapons) are a special upgrade which is expensive on basic PAGK, and possibly not what you want on GKT.
Who would want to rip arms off completed models and try and match the paint coat just to change weapons.... its just totally stupid.
The weapon choices is a direct marketting attempt to force people to buy more models than they need to represent different things, and ESPECIALLY to force people to upgrade to all new models.

I would say the exact OPPOSITE of what you said is true. The new model lines, which are certainly good in some ways but not so much in others are a particular attempt to force older players to upgrade and everyone in general to buy more models than necessary simply so they can have different weapon choices and fulfil the WYSIWYG rule, which sucks since all my old PAGK's have mixed weapons so they look unique.

Zealadin wrote:I'm not sure if they are swappable, I saw it in the shop today holding the sword, but couldn't tell if each weapon comes with a hand attached.

NemesisForce wrote:I'm usually one of the first guys in line callin' GW money-grubbers but I have to hand it to them that they at least didn't make our existing models obsolete to sell new ones. That's what I feared most. I'll pay a bit more money for the new NFW's models because at least they have decent upgrades that we can use.

I don't see how this is true in the least. Only justicar models are useable now, since halberds (current generation GK weapons) are a special upgrade which is expensive on basic PAGK, and possibly not what you want on GKT.
Who would want to rip arms off completed models and try and match the paint coat just to change weapons.... its just totally stupid.
The weapon choices is a direct marketting attempt to force people to buy more models than they need to represent different things, and ESPECIALLY to force people to upgrade to all new models.

I would say the exact OPPOSITE of what you said is true. The new model lines, which are certainly good in some ways but not so much in others are a particular attempt to force older players to upgrade and everyone in general to buy more models than necessary simply so they can have different weapon choices and fulfil the WYSIWYG rule, which sucks since all my old PAGK's have mixed weapons so they look unique.

I would have to say i am with Brother NF on this one.
It's kinda arogant to think that GW just wants to stick it to old GK players, We are after all SERIOUSLY underrepresented at all tournaments and events which means that there aren't a lot of us to begin win. Focusing a whole release on making a minority upgrade is not good business. And you said yourself Brother Z that GW is all about business.

Bringing out a cool new range of figures is more likely an attempt to increase interest in the army and attract NEW players. OF COURSE GW wants to increased sales, if they don't continue to do so we will no longer have a hobby to enjoy. I really don't feel like they have done anything wrong here, IMHO they have done us a favor and revitalized our army and breathed life back into it with new models and rules.

I understand your frustration with the weapon options, but I don' think the codex weapon options were writen with the intention of making old GK players havr to but new weapon sprues, I think it was/is intended to improve the army.

Of course I could be totally wrong and GW IS out to fu*k us but I just thought I would share my perspective.

Well concerning the use of the older Grey Knight models I was in the same boat a few days ago as Brother Zealadin. I was frustrated that many of the axe conversions that I had made were now completely useless, and that I would have to figure out a way to convert all of the PAGK Grey Knights weapons to swords- and where could I possibly find all of those bits.

As I thought about it a bit more and I finally saw the sprues I figured out something. With the new PAGK (can we still call them PAGK?) boxes- there are a plethora of bits- all of the different weapon options and extra items.
Here's my current thinking:
You can take a squad of 5x standard Grey Knights. Cut the halberds off and replace them with a sword (if lets say for example your building a purifier squad with halberds). Or you can replace the weapons on the old metal models with the two swords (don't remember the name), or even the hammer.

You have to try to look at the positives at this situation. If you have some existing metal models- you can basically build 2x squads (if not more) with a single box of the new plastic GK's.
When April comes I hope to have some of my old Gk's converted up in this fashion- hopefully this will inspire you/ convince you that GW really was not trying to screw us over on this one.

-Cease

can anyone tell me what the point is for having sword armed PAGK over halberd armed PAGK.

As far as I'm aware the sword only gives the ++1 CC save if you already have a ++ save, where as the halberd gives +2 I whatever

Apart from saving points is there any benefit to NOT swap out the sword!

also as I've got 20+ unmade codex PA dudes unmade I'll be able to utilize the whole PAGK box!

ha ha ha, who's laughing now GW!

Brother Ceas, I'm definitly with U!

itsuperslug wrote:can anyone tell me what the point is for having sword armed GKPA over halberd armed GKPA.

5 points per model for GKSS?

If I end up taking some GKSS I'm thinking a squad of 10, 2 Psycannons, 4 halberds, 1 hammer. Combat squad them out so I have 5 man (4 halberd + hammer) CC squad, and 1 squad for cover.

However, might be cheaper point wise to just load up on Purifiers?

Yes, the point savings on the sword are the only thing. However, there are a lot of desirable 5-10 point other goodies in the dex that we may want to take and can take because we shaved a a few points here and there by not upgrading to halberds.

Just saw that 2. wave GK's have been added to preorder: Castelan Crowe and the Jakero. How, go add to basket :-)

5pts difference? That's 50pts of swords for a 10 man squad. I plan to take Inq Corteaz with 3- ten man squads (total 120pts at 4pts each), tie them up for the GKTs to waltz in and kakoow-boom!

Funny how you can suddenly see a GK painted LR, SR and Dread too :p

Also your calling me arrogant to assume that GWS's main goal is to make money? Well that makes you naive.

It isn't -just- about screwing old players, its about screwing everyone, and honestly apart from the DK the new model lines have good detail but aren't that crash hot.
The weapon options are simply there to drive sales, the reason the army is underrepresented is because like all the other underrepresented armies it hasn't had the support is deserves in a very long time.

If GWS actually cared about making armies good and playable they could release updates to keep them all on an even keel. They don't however and prefer to use a system of releasing codexes with one-up rules (on the last release) to drive massive sales.

It's like feeding us small quantities of laxatives... it all ends up crappy.

Zealadin wrote:Funny how you can suddenly see a GK painted LR, SR and Dread too :p

Also your calling me arrogant to assume that GWS's main goal is to make money? Well that makes you naive.

It isn't -just- about screwing old players, its about screwing everyone, and honestly apart from the DK the new model lines have good detail but aren't that crash hot.
The weapon options are simply there to drive sales, the reason the army is underrepresented is because like all the other underrepresented armies it hasn't had the support is deserves in a very long time.

If GWS actually cared about making armies good and playable they could release updates to keep them all on an even keel. They don't however and prefer to use a system of releasing codexes with one-up rules (on the last release) to drive massive sales.

Like I stated above, I was just expressing my opinion. I have no desire to get into a name calling thread. Your opinion is valid in that it is your opinion, it is no more right or wrong than anybody else's .
You just seem to be coming across very negatively in regards to everything about GW. I just think that if you feel everything about GW is soo bad why continue to support them? There are plenty of other gaming systems out ther that would be more than happy to rip you off

I definitely did not mean to come across as calling you names brother Z. Please don't take my posts so seriously. This is all just about a game afterall.

I wasn't taking it seriously, and naivity is a two edged sword, it means beleiving the best in people, which can be as equally true as it can be sometimes dissapointing. I don't think its a bad thing.

I'm very cynical, and I do marketing units at university and I tend to analyse whats being done, its only my opinion of course, but I see alot of marketing behind not just how they create codexes and models, but also how many things are done that really don't do the hobby many favours.

It also annoys me because alot of newer business practices have moved on from ripping people off blind and the many less than satisfactory techniques that GWS uses, because they have recognised that being honest and supporting of your customers can net a better result than the concept of prying the money out of their wallets.

I probably come across as negative, but to me its just being realistic. My own opinion of course.

Zealadin wrote:I wasn't taking it seriously, and naivity is a two edged sword, it means beleiving the best in people, which can be as equally true as it can be sometimes dissapointing. I don't think its a bad thing.

I'm very cynical, and I do marketing units at university and I tend to analyse whats being done, its only my opinion of course, but I see alot of marketing behind not just how they create codexes and models, but also how many things are done that really don't do the hobby many favours.

It also annoys me because alot of newer business practices have moved on from ripping people off blind and the many less than satisfactory techniques that GWS uses, because they have recognised that being honest and supporting of your customers can net a better result than the concept of prying the money out of their wallets.

I probably come across as negative, but to me its just being realistic. My own opinion of course.

Thank you for providing more perspective as to where you are coming from brother. Your posts make a lot more sense to me now I know your background
It is only fair then that I tell you where I am coming from............ I am an addictions counselor, and I spend my days believing that there is good in the people I work with ...........

I do agree that treating people well will get better results than exploiting or forcing them, It is what I base my practise on afterall. But I also know that nobody is forcing us to buy GW products.
Do I wish that GW would adopt a more modern approach and stop "ripping us off"?...............YES! Do I think they will?.....................NO!!!

Haha very true

I'm a teacher. I start the day believing there is good in people, I end it with the clear intention of letting the galaxy burn.

I know there are good people in GW. Then I remember there're shareholders.