Grey Knight Codex Wish List

thats the thing. salvo also prevents your unit from assaulting. like heavy weapons you have to use relentless units in order to be able to assault after firing. for a army like GK that is apart from the psilencer all assault thats one big step.

hang on hang on hang on hang hang on.

Psilencer:

Assault 6 Str 4 AP-

Heavy 3 Str 8 AP 3

Cost: 35 points

Simple.

I want Grey Knights to be the true masters of Deep Strike they purport to be in the text.

If Blood Angels are able to scatter only D6" I want GK able to scatter only D3".


anything else.....

Make Crowe able to go with Purifiers!!!!

That would make it quite close to a cyclone launcher for normal terminators so you could probably base the cost off of that.

The only issue I would see is that as far as terminators are concerned it possibly makes the psycannon a little redundant, though the points difference seems fair.

Good plan  

no the psycannon still has rending and if in assault the psilencer would only be good against infantry.

I still think psilencers should be profiled against the psychic might of a squad.

Strike Squad/Terminator Squad: Assault 6 Str 4 AP5

Purifier/Purgator Squad: Assault 6 Str 5 AP4

Paladin Squad: Heavy 4 Str 6 AP3

Grey Knight HQ: Heavy 4 Str 7 AP3

no the psycannon still has rending and if in assault the psilencer would only be good against infantry.

I suppose it depends on the enemy. A terminator being able to shoot space marines with AP3 guns and charge sounds better than hoping for rending. It probably balances out.

Rending only really helps with vehicles when you get to armour 14 I think. Otherwise you may as well just take strength 8.


The last set of rules based on psychic power sounds good. What about the gatling silencer?

Get codex deamonhunters.

Fix some points costs.

Done.

I know i'm a bit of "nothing is as good as the old times" kind of guy.
But here i am right.

Nothing good came in the "grey knights" codex. (Or silver ultrasmurfs as i like to call them.)

None of the new units struck me as particularily deamonhunty. All the models got a downgrade in quality. (Except the justicar.)

And the fluff got SCHEIT!!!
And not just bad, but über scheit.

The halls of titan for example.
In the old fluff, they were empty, save a servitor or a tech adept here and there milling about taking care of things.
It was mysterious, it was simple and it was fitting. Even though the grey knight umbered 3000 they didn't have time to stay in their fortress monestary. They were always needed elsewere and that was cool.

Now, it's a space wolf mead hall, with ultramasilversmurfs and deamon chandalers.
DEAMON CHANDALEERS! That... no, that shit won't fly.
Why do they have a deamon head there? So they can brag and taunt it?....... Bragging and taunting?
That's ultramarines, and space wolves. NOT deamonhunters!

Another example.

Command structure.
In the old fluff, every single squad was self sufficient, led by at least a justicar they were able to do missions all on their own all over the galaxy.
At times, and dire times indeed were they, a few squads were formed into a strike force.
Multiple units of grey knights working together against impossible odds.
That was cool.

Now, they are ULTRAMARINES!
Only 1000 dudes, and always in companies.
Coz nowadays, we have a magic batman phone that the poor scared imperials can instant call with and the magic silver smurfs will save the day!!!

And all the kids get ice-cream!

And my favorite hate object in the new dex.
Purifiers.
Oh how i hate the purifiers.
Gw made me hate burning grey knights...... that takes skill.

Just think of it.
Here is the purifier order. Super grey knights, that are extra holy.
Extra holy???...... How are you more incorruptible than.... INCORRUPTIBLE!!!

All grey knights are very thoroughly tested for incorruptibility. And all of them have passed.
Making them a closely knit brotherhood that all trust eachother. None of them have fallen to chaos and as such, get that little extra incentive to be incorruptible since no one wants to be the great shameful one for being the first.

But purifiers are distrustful of "normal" grey knights. They are far better than those phonies. Purifiers are so holy they can BURN!!!
What can we call this, other than arrogance, pride, and unbased mistrust.

If any grey knight would fall, it would be a purifier, since they are all prideful bastards with a WEAKNESS.
Yup, they are the only grey knights with a weakness.

And i hate them. Just so you know.

There is really no need for the dreadknight either.
Oh my, bloodthirsters are large, so we can't fight them! (Yup, that's the explenation for their existance.)
Because grand masters aren't at all mighty psykers, able to battle the will of the greater deamon and as such get an upper hand against the monster.
A grey knight grand master is the ultimate deamon fighting weapon in the entirety of the imperium. And he would still be (although hampered) the best weapon only dressed in his underpants and armed with a butter knife.

But nope, large robots are cool.
Plus, let's have them really hard to control so it is more cool OooOoooh!!!
Or the mechanicus has similar machines controlled by...... servitors.

How hard the dreadknights are to control is all out of proportions.
Titans are the hardest machine spirits to wrestle with in the imperium. NOT a baby carriage suit for terminators.
All i could think of when reading that description on the dreadknight is how much more badass a princeps had to be than a GREY KNIGHT TERMINATOR!

And the guppy airship.
I can't remember its name, but you know which one i mean.

A chibi thunderhawk.
Why oh why does the grey knights need that?

It's smaller, true. That would be useful if the fluff was that they still mainly fought in squads.
But now an entire company blows down every time something goes wrong so that doesn't make sense anymore.
Let's just use proper thunderhawks, they carry more men and more firepower.

Oh wait. I forgot.
Grey knights are second only to one in teleporter technology!
Who is the only one that beats them? ORKS!!!

Since orks are awesome that way.

Grey knights don't need chibi thunderhawks. Just teleport down instead!

Another feature that doesn't make sense.
The chibihawk is custom made to carry a dreadnought in the back.

Do you know what the only chapter in 40k who would need that is?
No, not GK, not blood angles, not ultrasmurfs.

Don't know it?
The iron hands.
By far the most dreadnought heavy chapter in 40k. Since every single iron hand aspire to become a dreadnought. Since flesh is fallible.

Grey knights barely even have dreadnoughts. In the old fluff dreadnoughts were rare since knights were often given the honor of resting in the halls of titan instead. The walking tomb was reserved for only the most noble ones, whom still felt they had a fight to win in this life.
Since as we all know. When a grey knight dies, he goes to the side of the emperor, and awaits the final battle!

Bet they skipped that part of the fluff. It's not like it's major or anything.

Is there anything else?

Dunno, letting me in charge of the fluff would be a good thing.
I at least care about the ongoing story-line.

And don't even remind me of "how good new fluff is" It all SUCKS!
Necron and mechanicus is a prime example.

Making a horus heresy book. Which is canon. Go completely against the codex lore.

Just read "Mechanicum" and tell me necrons have good fitting fluff and i'll personally find you and smack you in the face.


[I apologize for my sour mood. But i was in a severy bad mood when i began to write this but raging about this has helped a lot. Have a good evening.]

I do quite like the terminus decree. And Thawn is OK for the tortured everliving and dark destiny thing. Crowe would be cool if he wasn't a purifier. But otherwise I'm mostly with Klomster with regards to the background. I had to convert the dreadknight and interceptors to fit in with my strike force's xeno focussed background and I still feel slightly cheap when the dread knight takes on most of the enemy army single-handed.

The storm raven isn't so bad. We'd be buggered for AA without it. I'm not saying it couldn't be redesigned...

Well I can't tell if Klomster hates the Codex or is it just me?  

I don't think the Daemonhunters Codex is a good way to go. It's in fact a terrible choice to go back to. The main fact being that there was actually only one way to field GK as an army. That codex was thought as what the Inq. Codex is now: An ally to whatever Imperial forces you had, with the added bonus that there was actually GK in PA and a Terminator Armour too. For the GK to be an actual army, there had to be a full revamping of the forces. It had to allow the player to use multiple choices that weren't present in the DH codex.

As for the fluff, well that's a matter of personal taste. I like it, a lot. It's fiction and it actually doesn't have to make too much sense. Raging about what you dislike is just raging about something you don't have any control over. That doesn't make the codex utter rubish. It is actually one of the best codexes out there. And the fact that you can still see GK in th top 10 of every major tounrament worldwide can show you how well written the codex and the rules really are.

Raging about what you dislike is just raging about something you don't have any control over.

So like a wish list then

The army did need more rounding from Daemonhunters to open up options and stand a chance against a standard army... but the dreadknight...


By the time the next codex comes around we might see some more Great Crusade technology coming through, though tanks should be very limited. Jetbikes could possibly work. They can even give them a dumb 'knight' name.

'Knight Errant units are the scout forces of the chapter, specialising in pinpointing the positions of potential warp rifts so as to teleport the remainder of the strike force directly to the target. To this end they employ swift jet bikes to ensure they find their objectives before the daemonic can find a foothold in the material realm.'

i agree 100% with klomster here. the new book made me turn my back on my GK. all the reasons i started them for where washed away.

there have been fanmade codizes, one on Bolter and Chainsword for example, that where based on the Daemonhunters book back them. those things where so much better than the current stuff we got.

So what was in these fan made codices that you would like to see in our next codex?

Perhaps i should try to make constructive critizism instead of raging?

Let's try.

Purifier fix.
´To combat the ever growing hordes of lesser deamons that were unleashed whenever a major incursion occured. The purifier order was formed.
The purifiers were, and is, designed to fight the horde of lesser deamons, and by doing that keep their brethrens backs clear while they fight the bigger and more single-handedly dangry foes upon the deamon encrusted battlefield.

To become a purifier, is not a simple task. You need to show more psychic potential than your brethren and have a mindset more set on wanton destruction than other grey knights.
Many purifiers as they progress through the brotherhood become powerful psykers, able to cast fire and burn deamons and heretic alike to cinders.
Purifiers are almost always pyromancers, but a select few have been allowed the brotherhood without the flaming soul.
The most noted is Castellan Crowe, whom is a powerful telepath.

To be a purifier though is not easy. Always outnumbered and always pushing their psychic might to the limit. Many fall upon the battlefield.
But they have time and time again held firm and let their brehtren fend of the bigger threat and as such close the rift, destroy the leader or otherwise win the day.
Because of this, the purifiers are respected and it is seen as an honor to become one.´


Dreadknight fix (Couldn't come up with a better name in 10 seconds, so i'll just go on. Plus i don't remember the name of the mechanicus psyker experts, so i'll just skip them, but they should help build this thing.)

`Dreadknights are a marvel of technology, created by skilled legio cybernetica artisans of the adeptus mechanicus, these suits are given to the grey knights by a select few magos whom are allied to the ordo malleus.

Unlike myrmidon war engines, the dreadknight is controlled by a single grey knight whom sit atop the machine in a cockpit with a complicated system that connects to the driver via MIU, the cockpit is constructed with psychic sensitive alloys which acts as capacitors for psychic powers.

Much like a knight titan, albeit smaller it is only controlled by a single pilot.
With its psychic capacitors, and grey knight purifier controller, this monster of a machine is a helping hand to the ever outnumbered purifiers.

Able to cast psychic powers and fight from a massive frame of armour. With both ranged weapons and massive close combat weapons constructed to fit the frame, this warmachine can turn the tide of battle.

Some dreadknights are mounted with powerful graviton cannons, to combat the ever growing threat of flying deamons.
(Stats = Good AA, can pull flying units to the ground so others can engage it. Here's you bloody AA.)

Castellan Crowe fix.
`Being a rather peculiar purifier, since his psychic school is that of telepathy instead of Pyromancy. His petition for the order of the purifiers was questioned at first.

His powers were more suited for singular combat the grand masters said, being able to wrestle with the minds of deamons, or sense the future was not the purifier way.
But Crowe plead and the grand masters decided to let him test his prowess as a purifier. If he could fight like the other purifiers, he could join them.

Crowe took this opportunity with joy and proved that his powers of telepathic confusion and illusion was much of use to the purifiers. His ability to single-handedly combat a deamon champion also proved useful when he locked in a duel of the mind, allowing his purifier brethren to combat many foes, and later save Crowe from the deadly mind-lock.

Crowe became a purifier. And a succesful one at that.
After (reasonable time) he was dubbed Castellan, and safeguarded his purifier brethren by their side so the purifiers in turn could safeguard the other grey knights.

Year (reasonable) though, a terrible fate befell the Castellan. And in a massive battle, the assault team was lost on the comms. Confused and knowing the mission was crucial, the purifiers saught to learn the truth of the silent comms.
The terror of the situation was revealed when they saw the summoning circle of the cultist leaders.
There a chaos champion stood with a monstrously poweful deamonblade, laughing as he ripped the soul from the last knight in the assault force.

With great anger, Crowe realised that the champion was controlled by the powerful deamon within the sword. The very reason of this incursion, and the fall of several worlds already.
The only way they could save the souls of their brethren was to stop the blade.
The vile deamon blade was visibly trying to consume the wayward spirits of the fallen knights as Crowe charged the leader and begun single combat.
The other purifiers was held up by a full cadre of deamon princes and could only watch as Crowe fought the powerful champion.

The battle was fierce and unable to lock with the mind of the champion, nor the sword at distance he suddently saw an opening and a plan.
He jumped in and as the champion laughed and thrusted the deamon sword into the body of Crowe, he to late understood the situation.
Crowe had let himself be skewered on the blade, to open up a chance to meld with both the champion and the blade with a hand on each.
The champion was as thought weak of mind and was instantly destroyed, his burning mind slumping to the ground.
But the blade was too powerful and Crowe was stuck in a constant mind duel.

As the bond of the blade vanished, so did the power bestowed upon the deamon princes, and they were slaughtered easily without their powers.
Crowe had even saved the fallen assault team, by locking in a mind duel with the blade, the wayward souls returned to their proper places.

The battle was over, but Crowe was forever stuck like this. As he was returned to Titan the entire chapter tried every way they possibly could to destroy the blade, but with no success.
Crowe was placed deep within the fortress monestary, with a team of medical and combat servitors always tending his wounds. Crowe himself had to keep the blades power from ever reaching out to anyone.

At times the blades powers prove to great for a moment, and it reaches out. But Crowe always manage to regain control a little, but a ghostly apparition of Crowe and a greater deamon can be seen fighting. Crowe at times manage to steer the battle to where his brethren are fighting so that they might help him fight the apparition, but mostly the battle takes place over his body. Hence the reason why the combat servitors are near his body.´

(This gives room for some cool rules, and they can be done so the enemy is provided with a deamon model, and crowe is on the knights side. And they will both have a bunch of cool rules. The deamon boosting a unit for the enemy and crowe needing to fight the deamon but gets bonuses and stuff, and weird abilities.

Teleportation, fast sprinting and illusions that he can cast on the boosted unit. Cool stuff.)

The halls of Titan fix.

They are frakkin empty. And no feast halls.

The rest is fine i guess. But let's just say we skip it and go back to mystery. It's cooler.

Codex army list fix.
Codex grey knights should have what? Grey knights that's right.

Not xeno inquisitors, not strange aliens (jokaero, back to the labs where you belong, only IDIOTS put jokaero on the battlefield.) nor deamonhosts unless the rules are a bit more interesting than. "Meh, boosted infantry." Deamonhosts are powerful being reluctantly created by inquisitors.
Grey knights never approves of deamonhosts. And penalties in lists with both should exist.

Make codex grey knights. With grey knights and ordo malleus.
Or make NO FRAKKIN CODEX AT ALL!!!!!

The other inquisitors? Codex inquisition thank you very much. With sisters of battle and stormtroopers. Plus karamazov and deathwatch.
There is more to make an army of there than grey knights, and that they didn't take the opportunity once more proves GW is dumb.


Chibi thunderhawk fix.
I added AA dreadknight, give the flier to the iron hands where it belongs.
In their delicious mechanised list. With terminator sargeants and dreadnought squads.
That's a codex that should have been done AGES AGO!


That's raging plus constructive critiszism.

If you do not agree this is better fluff. Then i will hate you.
No really. I have standards and a low tolerance for people who not agree with me.
At times i am wrong, but when i'm right i am right and everyone who does not agree with me is wrong and therefore i hate them.

Yup, a bit aggressive and boasting. But that's me.

+1 to Constantine's question. Anything worthy of saving for the next codex?

i am currently running through my second harddrive where its saved at. to give you some examples. may take a bit


EDIT: okay i found it. note that all of those changes are based on codex: daemonhunters. i also only mention the GK part. not the ordo malleus inquisitors, assassins, etc wich are in aswell.

so here are some examples based on codex: daemonhunters that should have worked great with grey knights:

universal special rules

Homing Device: a GK army starts with 1 Homing device. you can buy up to 2 additional homing devices for 20 points each. a homing device is placed before deployment. place it on the board and let it scatter like with the deepstrike rules but with 3d6 . if it passes on impassable terrain or scatters off the board move it back the minimum distance possible to be placeable. units from the codex : Daemonhunters that deepstrike within 6" of a Homing device dont scatter.

true grit. same as codex: daemonhunters but allows the "pistol bonus" all the time instead of the turns your unit does not assault and terminators can use it aswell.

fearless, Full army Deep strike with 2d3 scatter. the shrouding and the aegis stay the same as in codex: daemonhunters


incinerator: S 6 ap 4 ignores invul
psycannon: 36" S 6 ap 3 assault 3, rending
heavy psycannon: 36" S 8 AP 2 Assault 1, pinning.


Nemesis Force Weapons:
GK - S +2
Justicar & Terminators and knights of the circle - S +2 force weapon
Brother Captain - S +2, force weapon, reroll to wound or to hit.
Grandmaster - S +2, force weapons, reroll to hit and to wound.

please note that those force weapons are back in the day "ignore armour saves" like in 5th edition.

HQ

grandmaster same as codex: daemonhunters but some changes: 160 points. comes with iron halo standard and gets +1 WS can get a stormshield for +20 points can trade nemesis force weapon for a force weapon thunder hammer for free. psyker level 2 with acess to 3.

brother captain: same as codex: daemonhunters, 100 points base, iron halo included and gains a additional wound. can get a stormshield for +20 points can trade nemesis force weapon for a force weapon thunder hammer for free. psyker level 1 with access to 2.

Elite

terminators: 45 points each WS 5 still access to true grit. can get stormshields for the stormbolter for 5 points. Brother captain is psyker level 1. 1 heavy/special weapon for every 5 members of the unit

knights of the circle: GK Statline but with WS 5. 2 attacks base and artificer armour. 35 points each. unit size 3-10 the champion is psyker level 1 2 heavy/special weapons at all times.

Troops

Grey Knights: 20 points, WS 5. justicar is psyker level 1. 1 heavy/special weapon for every 5 members of the unit

fast attack

Grey Knight jetbikers (didnt had a name): 35 points each. WS 5, T 5. 1 attack base. Nemesis Force Javelin is like a GK force weapon with +2 S and + 2 S force weapon on the justicar. in the turn they assaulted they gain + 1 S and count as powerweapons. Justicar is psyker level 1.

heavy support

purgation squad: same as normal GK but they can have 4 special/heavy weapons instead of 1 for 5 man. each one comes with a teleport homer base.


thats all for now to share some ideas i have read back in the days that i think would have fit better than the current ones. some point scaling may be off but well i just posted what was written here for back in the days.

Hey, I made up a name for those jet bikers earlier.
I didn't give them strength 7 on the charge though.

Giving everyone an extra attack is a bit over the top maybe.
Stormshields just feel wrong to me. That might be coloured by the fact that only one Grey Knight has a shield and his background is a crime against internal cohesion.

that extra attack was always with them they dont got force weapons standard aswell though

and stormshields. back in the day our terminators could use them. aswell as our brother captain and grandmaster. they used the 3rd edition ruleset though

I suppose it makes them better at killing daemons than marines which makes sense. I think 'normal' true grit would do though.

I'd like to see True grit Come Back, that was nice though as Sai says may be a bit too much.

I also see too many Strength boosts in the army. While nice, I think Initiative is much better than S. Striking first is way more useful than striking hard.

As for Psycannons, they are great for the fusilade they bring. Being able to glance to death any vehicle out there is really nice. While AP3 is nice to have, I rather have one more S7 shot and still have rending (mass S7 guns is way nicer than S6 marine killers).

And yeah a full DS army is really nice to have. I would like to see that happen in the next codex.

And no comments on my things

Oh well.

The 20pts extra beacons sound a bit cheap. Maybe 50 pts, and it's a HQ upgrade. So the commander buys them to himself. Or something.

I'm rubbish with points costs so i'll stay away from that.

I'd say grey knights need higher base initiative, and a spell to raise it perhaps.
And grand master with str 7 force weapon. Yum. I still want that.

Klomster wrote:I'd say grey knights need higher base initiative, and a spell to raise it perhaps.

ever since the 5th editiion book. GK players have become so spoiled because of those darn halberds. there is no reason for a marine like unit to have a higher initiative than 4. GK allready got discount powerweapons.

there is no justified reason for a simple GK to have a higher initiative than most other close combat specialists have.

The problem is that if we just keep improving things we become Matt Ward. We'll be those guys who win games because our stuff is better, not because we are better. (Figurative) Death before (games design) dishonour.

I remember being on a Alpha Legion Forum when they were trying to come up with rules to reflect the background. Instead of a handful of flavourful additions like infiltrating cultists they were coming up with super ninja assassins who had WS5 and BS5 plus shrouding and a couple of other things because 'that's what they can do in the books.' Everyone's army can do that in the books.

For Grey Knights WS5 would be welcome, but we already have preferred enemy against daemons and 90% of a Knight's training would be against the daemonic (I expect). Psyk-grenades also mean the knights hit first when they charge them.
As for I5, Grey Knights aren't as fast as an eldar.

I still win most of my games, I'm not sure if I need anything better. Having fewer, stronger troop choices wouldn't work, I've got up to six objectives to try to hold. It's hard enough to claim enough to win as it is.

I think you made a great point about all of us wanting our forces to be what we read in the novels. I would love that, but I also see that it doesn't really transfer into the gaming world.
Comparing stats between races (Eldar) is a great way of keeping things in perspective.

I would like to see teleporting take a more prominent role in the force, and perhaps some new characters.

Daemonbane - On a to wound roll of 6 the attack ignores invulnerable saves.

Pyschic Communion - Allows any deepstriking unit to re-roll scatter

Paladins - point increase. 1-3 per unit, Per 3 one can take a psycannon, psilencer or incinerator; another can take an incinerator. Can only be joined by Grandmasters. Draigo makes them troops.

Mordrak - remains the same except his ghost knights remain when he is removed as a casualty. However, they must remain within 3" of the spot Mordrak was slain. If they move more than 3" due to combat pile in, failed morale check, tank shock or voluntary movement they lose their connection to the mortal realm and are removed as a casualty.

Of course I'd want point costs adjusted to where everything is fair. Nothing "OMG awesome!" and nothing "This sucks I'll never play this unit".

I need to read the old Daemonhunters codex to see what the glory days you all speak of were like

Some may have already said this but I think an improvement would be to have a unique Anti-tank ranged weapon. Maybe a gun that freezes tanks or a psymelta.

I also agree with Klomster about inflicts penalties for deploying aliens and/or deamonhosts with the Grey Knights.

Now as for fluff I would like less of the wargear to be these irreplaceable relics that for some reason cannot be made again. Along with saying the Grey Knight Armor is still being made of their forge moon. I can't see the Inquisition just making a surplus of armor and then stopping. Matt Ward took the forgotten science/tech concept too far.