Mordrak list 2k suggestions

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Mordrak list 2k suggestions

Post by Athelor on Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:50 am

Hello brothers!!

I want to test Haunted Knight of Mortain a.k.a Grand Master Mordrak as I 've never played him...So this is the list so far and I humbly ask for your ideas and suggestions

Hq:
Mordrak + 5x Ghostly Bodyguards w/ halberds 400

Troops:
10x Terminator Squad w/ 2x psycannons + 8x halberds + 2 hammers + psybolts + Justicar Thawn 545
10x Strike Squad w/ 2x psycannons + 7x swords (Justicar included) + 1x hammer + psybolts 250
10x Strike Squad w/ 2x psycannons + 7x swords (Justicar included) + 1x hammer + psybolts 250

Heavy support:
1x Dreadnought w/ 2x Twin-linked Autocannons + psybolts 135
1x Dreadnought w/ 2x Twin-linked Autocannons + psybolts 135

These units come at 1715 points ..Everything except Mordak is let's say my core units that I use in every game ... I want to stay pure GK if possible ... I 'm thinking that I should include a Dreadknight (even though I don't really like him as a unit) or some purifiers (7x halberds + 2x incinerators in rhino) ... I don't know if adding a Libbi with Mordrak with codex powers really worth it and if I should also include a Flamernought

So any suggestions are welcome !! Keep in mind that I don't know what army I'm dealing with and that Flyers are not included

Thanks in advance

Athelor
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Re: Mordrak list 2k suggestions

Post by Corennus on Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:13 am

I'm not sure the Ghost Knights really need Halberds. I think you'd be better off equipping them with swords to take advantage of the 4+ inv save in CC.

Personally I would add a libby to Mordrak as it makes his unit a little bit more survivable.
I really don't think Justicar Thawn is worth the points he is at. 75 points would get you a banner for your Ghost Knights (auto pass force weapons!) and then a banner for your terminator squad.

If you want to go with purifiers incinerators are nice, but psycannons out of a rhino hatch are much better.

My problem with MOrdrak is if he's deep striking in where does he go so he doesn't get shot to pieces on opponent's turn 1...

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Re: Mordrak list 2k suggestions

Post by Athelor on Thu Jun 06, 2013 7:40 am

Thanks for your reply!!

Ok what you said about Thawn is probably right I wanted him for an extra troop choice (after he has shielded my termies first) so I could spent Grand-strategy elsewhere and for that lvl2 mastery so he could cast hammerhand + activate force weapons if needed...Now you got a point that a 25 points banner is better and cost effective!!

So taking out Thawn I have 75 points more to spent + 285 I had before for a total 360 points

Taking under consideration your suggestion about the Libbi and banners I think I should add the following to my list :

1x bro-banner at Termie Squad (25)
1x bro-banner at bodyguards (25)
GK Librarian w/ sword + storm bolter + 2x servo skulls + 3x codex powers ----> might of the titan , shrouding , summoning (175)
1x Dreadnought w/ Twin Linked heavy flamer + Close Combat weapon with built in heavy flamer + psyflame + warp stabilization field (135)


So for tactics I 'll have Strike squads and dreadnoughts on the table at the start of the game ... First round I Deep Strike my Mordrak+bodyguards+libbi bomb into cover (a 4+ cover ruin or out of enemy's line of sight ) while moving Strike Squads to take points and dreadnoughts shooting at enemy vehicles ...Second round I Deep Strike the termies , summoning the flamernought , move-shoot-assault if possible with Mordrak/guards/Libbi

How does this looks?? I know it's not a competitive list or something but I think it'll be fun to play and a good test to see how Mordrak's alpha strike will goes ..

Athelor
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Re: Mordrak list 2k suggestions

Post by volvoe on Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:54 am

The problem with Mordrak by himself is that if he dies the whole squad goes with him. That's why I usually pair him with an IC just incase for challenges. If you get into cc and mordrak gets challenged.. he's striking at I1 and he can get instant deathed! I really like a librarian but you don't have to take codex powers. Just note that a Libby can give +1 to their coversave which they already have stealth. If you don't like the libby take a GM, BC, or even Draigo! I was thinking about dropping a GM/BC with a flamer for turn 1 flaming goodness! Draigo would just be a monster to drop on someone on turn 1 (too bad you can't assault the turn you come in though). Also with 2 GM's I think you can have 2 Grand Strategies, just you have to use the special rules on different units. On another note I believe the Libby is the only IC in our codex that can take a teleport homer.

I think halberds are fine, though technically swords would increase their survivability. Most things that are AP2 strike at I1 and so swords would be better. It's just preference, imo.

I also like running Interceptors so I shunt them in to support Mordrak.

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Re: Mordrak list 2k suggestions

Post by Athelor on Fri Jun 07, 2013 4:56 pm

So I played today with the list as it stands (+ the "improvements" I told you in my later post) and it was against Blood Angels .. We played second mission "Purge the Alien" (an annihilation game) with deployment "Vanguard Strike" ..

I'll first mention what my opponent's list was (approximately) :

Dante
5x sanguinary guards w/ 1x power fist + 1x power axe + 3x swords + angelic bolters + 1x Inferno Pistol + sanguinary priest w/ bolt pistol + chainsword
10x Death company w/ lemartes + Jump packs + 1x power fist + bolters (not bolt pistols + chainswords because he wanted 2x shots for each + assault as they are relentless or something like that)
10x Assault marines w/ 1x flamer + 1x power fist + 1x plasma + bolt pistols and chainswords + sanguinary priest w/ bolt pistol + chainsword
6x Assault marines w/ 1x power fist + bolt pistols and chainswords (this unit without Jump packs taking a razorback as dedicated transport see below)
10x Tactical marines w/ 1x plasma cannon + 1x flamer + bolters
1x furioso Dreadnought w/ frag cannon + close combat weapon built in storm bolter/flamer (I can't remember right now)
1x death company Dreadnought w/ 2x Blood talons + meltagun?? (not multi melta but build in melta if this is correct)
2x Razorbacks w/ assault cannons + storm bolters

So the game went like this :

Dante works his magic so Mordrak has -1 Wound / -1 Weapon Skill / -1 Attack / -1 Initiative (irrelevant) just before the game starts and I'm like WTF??? Shocked

Mordrak's Grand Strategy give's only my Termies re-roll to wound for "1s"

Warlord traits are irrelevant as they require objective points

Deployed the 2x servo skulls one at the middle of upper half dead zone (inside a 4+ cover terrain piece) and the other in the middle of bottom half of it (also inside a 4+ cover terrain piece) . Imagine that we had a big terrain piece in the middle which was some icy crystals providing 4+ save and as the deployment is diagonal it separates the terrain in two

I get first turn so I deploy from the left bottom side .I put 1 dreadnought so it can line of sight the upper half of terrain and the other one had line of sight of the bottom half of terrain .. near the first Dreadnought was a 5+ cover terrain piece where I put inside my one 10-man Strike Squad ..The other Strike Squad was a bit side and behind (close to my center of deployment zone ) of my second Dreadnought and my 10-man Terminator Squad was deployed in front of it (they were right inside another 5+ cover -a crater- looking the bottom half ) .The servo skulls are both just 12" from my units just for the record cause I wanted to Deep Strike Mordrak/Guards/Libbi bomb on top of them them (wanted to use Libbi's summoning power near them actually) ..Note that my Flamernought is behind all of them about 7" from the corner of the table

He deploys (cleverly) most of his army to the upper half of his deployment zone so I can't line of sight him much..He puts there the Assault Squad with Jump packs the death company below them the tactical inside a crater with 5+ cover the Furioso below them with Death company Dreadnought Just behind it and finally the 2x Razorbacks behind terrain pieces (both +4 cover) which are at the bottom half of the terrain ..He has Dante and Sanguinary Guards at Deep Strike

We roll Night Fighting and it's an "1" so I fell kinda lucky cheers but then he seizes the initiative and I'm again No

First Turn for the Blood Angels :
He moves 12" or so , both Assault squad and Death Company ( the Death Company in front of the Assault squad cause there is the terrain piece I had my servo skull which leaves play ) .. the assault without Jump Packs move 6" as his Dreadnoughts hiding behind that big terrain piece .. The Razorbacks move a little ..but not totally out of cover in order to shoot my Dreadnought and the Termies (which are at the bottom of my deployment zoneas said befpre)....the shooting starts with 1 of them and the Dreadnought takes a penetrating hit from one rending shot ..Hopefully it's a "2" no worries Psychic Pilot FTW . The other scores another rending hit + 2 normal hits at the Termie squad ,I have a "6" at the rending a "4" at one hit and an "1" at the other....what are the odds really?!? (at least die from the rending hit man Razz ) .. Death Company shoots my Strike squad but it's no good at all ( he wounds 3 and I save them all ) so no losses Very Happy ..Then the last shooting option of his the Plasma Cannon of the Tactical Squad fires at them too but the blast scatters onto my other Psifleman and it's a glancing hit

First Turn of my Guys :

It's like I have no losses (1 termie +1 hull point at each Psifleman) at all but his army have gone from the upper half of the table and his Death company is real close ... I firstly activate my Warp Quake ..First the upper Strike Squad and it's A DOUBLE "1" so it's activated but my Justicar is no more (NICE) ..Ok , now the Strike that is at the heart of the army and it's a total "11" !! NICE AGAIN .. I move a bit (something like 3") my termies (still in that crater) into the cover of the big terrain piece and also move 6" straight ahead my Psyflemen .. I'm panicked!! What Mordrak bomb should do? Defend? Offend? .. I'm lost to my strategy and I don't know where to throw it .... i know I should not do it ...but then again I say to myself : "How much punishment can he really take?? , Isn't this list made to test him actually??" So he goes right behind his Assault with no Jump packs and from above of his tactical which still hides in that crater.. Shooting starts with my Psyfleman every time I play so , the upper can (now) see the Death company Dreadnought and scores 2 glancing hits at it .My bottom Psyfleman scores 2 glancing + 2 penetrating hits to one Razorback but with the cover he saves the penetrating hits...No First Blood for me in this game is what crosses my mind... 6x Termies (1 Psycannon) and 5x Strikes (whose at the heart of my deployment) can reach the Death company + the whole upper Strikes..They shoot and with a lot of "1s" plus his saves and Feel No Pain I take down 3 of them ....Morbrak bomb shoots the no Jump packs Assault and kill no one...

Second Turn of Angels:
Dante comes 6" behind Flamernought (i knew I would not see this unit performs No ..AGAIN) . Death Company and Assault move 6" on foot. They are 8" and 11" away from my upper Strike . Tactical + Assault without Jump packs + 2x Dreadnoughts + the razorbacks surround Mordrak affraid (Not really shocked as I was looking for trouble) ..Dante and his unit blast the Flamernought to smithereens (That's First Blood for him) , the Death company kills 4 from my upper Strike which is the cause he can't reach me and in overwatch I take out two of them (WOW really lucky with phycannons there - 4 wounds saves only 2 of them ) . After a long long long long shooting from everything Mordrak has still his 3 wounds (1 taken away from Dante if you recall) Libbi has still 1 wound left and the curtain has fallen for the 5x Bodyguards... He gets charged by everything , 4x snap shots have no effect at all (and why whould they???) and tactical squad and Death Company Dreadnought are in close combat (the others could not reach) ..In close combat only Mordrak takes two wounds from my side and I destroy the Dreadnought (unfortunately even though I have had cast 2x hammerhands + might of the titan , Libbi had double "1" to wound) .. I roll for Mordrak's wounds and two bodyguards pop-up Cool

Second Turn Grey Knights:
I move the Phyflemen , the upper back at the edge of the table pointing my guns at Dante and his unit (the Razorbacks are far away + no line of sight) and the bottom 6" straight ahead and I can see the Furioso at the rear Twisted Evil . The Strike at the heart of deployment moves to confront Dante and his unit (they are at 3.3" away and I want to lock him in combat to gain some time) . I' m finally out of difficult terrain with my Termies which shoot along with the remains of the upper Strike the Death Company. I exterminate them and my opponent is MAD!! Evil or Very Mad the upper phyfleman kills one Sanguinary Guard (the one with Inferno pistol) and the bottom scores two glancing and one penetrating to Furioso destroying it. The Strike kills one Sanguinary Guard (the one with the axe) and fails to assault them cause I roll 3" (and it was 3.3) OMG!!! lol! ..In the close combat I kill 6x marines of the Tactical no losses for me with Mordrak+Libbi+2xBodyguards still alive!!!

Third Turn Angels:
Dante is dispatched from his unit and goes to the meet upper Psyleman ..The Sanguinary Guards move to meet my Strike next to them the Assault Squad only 2" from my upper Strike. The Assault with no Jump packs joins the close combat..Shoot shoot shoot and I loose the Psyfleman (to Dante's inferno pistol) , 3x Strikes from the bottom one and the remains of the upper Strike. The Razorbacks give another glancing hit to my bottom Psyfleman. In close combat only Mordrak stays alive and kills only one marine Sad ( a lot of "1s" there both defence and offence ) .The Sanguinary Guards kill another 3x of my Strike in Close combat I do nothing + I try to hammerhand and Justicar suicides with another double "1s" Evil or Very Mad

Third Turn Grey Knights:
The remaining Psyfleman pivots and points Dante..4x hits --> 4x wounds ---> 3x saves and he is down as I have str8 Auttocannons!!!! cheers The Termies march 6" from the Assault squad .. kill 4x at the shooting assault and before even he lands a hit I killed all of them with halberds!!! (No Feel No Pain in my auto activated force weapons from the banner which also gave me 4attakcs x 7termies = 28 attacks ) ..the Remains of the Strike Squad die without inflicting any wound and finally Mordrak who went against half of the Angels army is down Wink

Fourth round Angels:
He consolidated with the Assault with no Jump packs and now he put them inside a Razorback and he's moving it but it's too far to shoot anything.The other tries to hurt my hero of Phyfleman but it only scratches it .. Sanguinary Guards move towards it though and the one with the power fist destroys it at last. Then the cowards consolidate and move behind cover of a ruin ...Unfortunately his Tactical has still the plasma cannon and it sees and reaches my Termies blasting 5x of them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fourth round Grey Knights:
Only 4x Termies are left on my side and I'm trying not to accept defeat and be total annihilated .. I move 6" behind the cover of our central terrain piece.. I shoot the Sanguinary guards and I take down three of them leaving only the Sanguinary Priest that they have with them

We roll Night Fighting again and the darkness never comes pale

Fifth round Angels:
The tactical can't see me and moves only 2" as it goes again in that crater ..The Sanguinary Priest flies away into a Razorback as he moves both (Razorbacks) so he can see me. Shoots everything and only two Termies remaining ..I pass Leadership test !!!

Fifth round Grey Knights:
I have nothing to do except shoot at that Razorback which has one hull point left (The bottom Psyfleman had scored two glancing hits on it if you recall) ..I have a psycannon and Justicar left and I score two penetrating hit's on it !!!!!!! Explodes!!! But everyone inside it (this one has Assault with no Jump packs) still lives ..

He roll's in order to see if we continue playng and it's an... "1" ...Thewwwwwwwwwww Very Happy I'm not totally annihilated Very Happy

We start counting Victory Points and he informs me that Sanguinary Priests are Independent characters (What?? Didn't know that scratch )
and we see that the score is.......

...... 9 Vps for him and

...... 9 Vps for me too!!!

It was a tie but overall a very interesting and fun game !!

I understood that Mordrak worth it even though I was a bit lucky with him but he proved to be more resilient that more people tend to believe !!!

Hope you enjoyed and sorry if this wasn't the place to post the battle report and if I confused you with so many details !!!!!





Athelor
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Re: Mordrak list 2k suggestions

Post by volvoe on Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:03 pm

Great battle report! Yes Mordrak is very resilient and it's tricky on where you want to place him. I think I can guarantee that his unit should survive at least a turn to assault in. Don't forget that his hammer is master crafted (I usually do). You should also try to add Warp Rift to the Libby. Twisted Evil He could do a lot of damage to anything bunched up! That's pretty awesome that you instant killed Dante. Reading that made me smile. Very Happy

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Re: Mordrak list 2k suggestions

Post by Rion on Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:53 pm

Good game. Making me relook at Mordrak as an HQ choice. Hmmmmm

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Re: Mordrak list 2k suggestions

Post by Athelor on Sat Jun 08, 2013 3:50 am

Hopefully I didn't forgot his re-roll(s) with hammer Very Happy .. I think that Mordrak is a good Hq overall worth taking him as he pulled half of my opponent's army on him , giving time to my other units to perform ..At start , when he threw everything he could on him (Mordrak) I thought to be a strategic mistake on his behalf but then again I would have eliminated a lot of his units from behind so maybe that was the only thing he could do..That's the main utility of Mordrak in my humble opinion -to disorientate your opponents strategy- ..Also he is a Grand-master himself and has better stats for only 25 more points ..Of course there are differences from army to army that you should consider .. But probably against the new Tau he's the Hq you should be picking in my opinion ..

I also got my hands on my first Dreadknight yesterday so I 'm considering to build him with Heavy Incinerator + Greatsword + Teleporter which comes at 260 points ..
My Flamernought (135) won't do me any good (even though I love it so much Smile ) so DK takes it's place on the list .. So I need to find another 125 points in order to include him and two options come in my mind :

1st) One of my Strike Squads goes from 10man to 5man w/ 1x psycannon + 1x hammer + 1x halberd on Justicar (from 250 ----> 125 points)

2nd) I take out Libbi (175-125=50 left points) I add a Rhino (40) for one of a Strike Squad of mine and both Justicars of my Strikes get master-crafted close combat weapons

3rd)Your suggestions for anything I should change in order to get the Dreadknight in there ...

Thanks for your comments and replies brothers!!!

Athelor
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Re: Mordrak list 2k suggestions

Post by volvoe on Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:08 pm

I don't think master crafting for justicars are worth it. I mean they are the first to fall due to perils. if anything I would keep the librarian. I'll post my list later.

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Re: Mordrak list 2k suggestions

Post by Athelor on Sun Jun 09, 2013 10:54 am

On second thought if I go with second choice I'll give both Strike Squad Justicars halberds (for challenges) instead of master-crafting their swords ..Thanks for the tip friend!!

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Re: Mordrak list 2k suggestions

Post by DonFer on Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:51 am

Gerat Report!
I also play one Mordrak list with Librarian attached, and I found that a Vortex of Doom in your opponents backfield really does increase Mordrak's survibability. You just put him where he does most damage, activate Vortex and see units start droping like flies With careful positioning you can also destroy vehicles from behind if you 're lucky, but that's a free Hull Point for each vehicle hit.

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Re: Mordrak list 2k suggestions

Post by Athelor on Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:53 pm

Thanks for your appreciation !!

I've been thinking some things about the list and I've concluded that the bro-banner in Mordrak's bodyguards doesn't worth it .
Without banner the unit has 4 + (2 x 5) = 14 attacks ( 20 attacks when assaults)
With banner the unit has 5 + (3x5) = 20 attacks but from them 17 are with force weapons (26 attacks when assaults 22 of them with force weapons)

So the actual benefit is 3 force weapons + 3 normal attacks (2 force weapons + 4 normal attacks when the unit assaults) ..Doesn't worth it for 25 points in such an elite army in my humble opinion

Second thing that doesn't worth it's points is the Greatsword in the Dreadknight ..The reason is that with or without the Greatsword the Dreadknight has 4 attacks (5 when assaults) at strength 10 ..The Greatsword provides the "beast" with re-rolls to Hit ...the beast has Weapon skill of 5 , re-rolls to Wound ...the beast wound's + instant kills (if they don't have eternal warrior special rule) units with a lot of wounds and toughness of 5 at +2 , re-rolls to Armor Penetration...best Armor Value is 14 and we don't really see it those days a lot .. Re-rolling "1s" doesn't worth 25 points ..


So 50 point's available to spend cheers ...

In addition , everyone talks about exchanging a Strike Squad with one Interceptor Squad for more flexibility and mobility..

Now my list should look something like this :

Hq:
Mordrak + 5x Bodyguards w/ Halberds 400

Troops:
10x Terminator Squad w/ 2x Psycannons + 7x Halberds + 2 Hammers + Bro-Banner + Psybolts 495
10x Strike Squad w/ 2x Psycannons + 6x Swords + 1x Hammer + 1x Master-Crafted Halberd (Justicar) + Psybolts 260

Fast Attack:
10x Interceptor Squad w/ 2x Incinerators + 6x Swords + 1 Hammer + 1x Master-Crafted Halberd (Justicar) + Psybolts 340

Heavy Support:
1x Dreadnought w/ 2x Twin-Linked Auttocannons + Psybolts 135
1x Dreadnought w/ 2x Twin-Linked Auttocannons + Psybolts 135
1x Dreadknight w/ Heavy Incinerator + Personal Teleporter 235


I have spend a lot of points at upgrades for Strike Squad and Interceptor Squad though .. Maybe some of these aren't needed?? I can always take out "Master-Crafted Halberds" for a "Warding Stave" at Terminator Squad ..Don't know which is better

Thoughts on the "new" list overall?

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Re: Mordrak list 2k suggestions

Post by Corennus on Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:46 am

I don't think the single mastercrafted halberds on the justicars are really needed. just give him a sword instead. Psybolts are nice since you're shooting with a lot of Str 5 bolts (pity psycannons don't get upgraded to str 8!).

The Dreadknight w/ heavy incinerator and personal teleporter..........up to you but personally I think if you're going dreadknights you need to take 2 of them. I would drop him and get a third psynaught instead.

With the interceptor squad I think the incinerators are a bit too expensive (20 points per template!). i'd either give them psycannons or give them all halberds and hammers.

so let's say you change them for 2 psycannons and more halberds and hammers, how many points have you got left to play with:

Strike squad losing the halberd and MC: 10 points
Interceptor squad losing the incinerators and mc halberd but gaining 2 psycannons and  5 halberds etc:25 points

Dreadknight changed to psynaught: 100 points

135 points. still not enough really for a nice librarian.... but you have enough for another interceptor squad. or a 5 man strike squad w/ a psycannon...

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