Allies or no allies?

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Allies or no allies?

Post by Rivan on Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:41 pm

Wanted to get a feel for how you guys feel your lists are going to be now. I've read the rules and have a good general idea on how 6th ed works--will have to hone that with actual game play.

Do you guys think getting allies is a must now? Or do you think we can still be competitive on our own? Will your lists drastically change from how it was in 5th ed?

I love running Paladins and I'm still trying to figure out how to make a paladin-themed list (without Draigo). While I'm tempted to use allies, the GK purist in me wants to try and see if an all GK list can still be competitive.

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"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: Allies or no allies?

Post by Constantine on Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:57 pm

Part of the allure of being a purist GK player is the extra challenges that it creates! I say stick to the all GK list cheers

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Re: Allies or no allies?

Post by Tiger10 on Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:04 pm

I have a general understanding of the new rules, even though I don't have the rule book. I'll only stick to pure grey knights in my low point games, since the highest points I use is 1500, the main allies being inquizitors Smile
But I might use allies just for the fluff feel between my SM and IG armies, ( even though I don't have the models).
I've always loved paladines without Drago, (mainly because I prefure the GM or inqizitor).
I say to my friend when he mensions 1000-750pts ,"Well looks like I'll have to resort to using normal termies." Razz

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Re: Allies or no allies?

Post by Bewareoftom on Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:23 pm

yeah, but my LGS is going to more 2k for average games, so I'm thinking about adding some tau with broadsides and suits, and a small firewarrior squad sitting back Razz

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Re: Allies or no allies?

Post by Dark Bjoern on Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:12 pm

Bewareoftom wrote:yeah, but my LGS is going to more 2k for average games, so I'm thinking about adding some tau with broadsides and suits, and a small firewarrior squad sitting back Razz
Exactly that makes me sick. The new allies rules will change the gaming style to a more power gaming level then ever. And this destroyes the fun for me. I donīt wanna join this bandwagon. I like my fun list but will now be forced to go power gaming too, just because everyone else do it. When i talk to the guys from my LGW (Souba maybe can confirm) most of them donīt know the background of their codex. They only know the rules for their army and how to get the most competive out of it. For them it would be okay if the dex would contain only the rules part. And all their care about is how to optimize their list.
For me that kills the fun. I love fluffy/themed armies.
I say: Do not suffer the alien to live! Burn them all. No allies for me!!! Evil or Very Mad

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Re: Allies or no allies?

Post by Rivan on Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:18 pm

Dark Bjoern wrote:I say: Do not suffer the alien to live! Burn them all. No allies for me!!! Evil or Very Mad

Lol! I like that DB. Like I said, I'm still a die hard GK and will develop an all GK list (meaning no allies). The normal tourneys I attend usually have their games at 1750-1850. I hope it stays that way.

In larger friendly games, I may use some of my sons SW to ally with Smile

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"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: Allies or no allies?

Post by Jonathan on Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:25 pm

Dark Bjoern wrote:I say: Do not suffer the alien to live! Burn them all. No allies for me!!! Evil or Very Mad

Right on brother! Very Happy

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Re: Allies or no allies?

Post by Constantine on Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:29 pm

I am all about the fluff too Brothers. I could see making an Exception to allying if it was with a SM chapter, IG, or other loyalist force, but allying with ANY xenos forces is out of the question IMHO!

At the end of the day though it comes down to what YOU enjoy most about the game. SO the sky is the limit really. I can't wait to see those Nid/Ultramarine, or Eldar/Slanesh builds Razz

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Re: Allies or no allies?

Post by Sai on Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:09 am

I've got my old inquisitorial army sitting around so I can use the imp guard rules to bring them along but they certainly won't be part of my regular army. Like Sgt Elias, they work faster alone.

The only real change is that I'll maybe add a bastion but that's more to do with the fact that I've got drop pod and manticore parts lying around which I think will make a pretty sweet conversion for a drop-bastion which conceivably fits with the style of the army.

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Re: Allies or no allies?

Post by Dark Bjoern on Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:19 am

Constantine wrote:I can't wait to see those Nid/Ultramarine, or Eldar/Slanesh builds Razz
Luckyly both Thing will not happen cause nids can't ally with anyone and Elder not with Chaos.
But for the case i have to ally i have something more nasty then Tau broadsuits in mind Twisted Evil something much more nasty.

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Re: Allies or no allies?

Post by flaxis on Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:14 am

Brother Dark bjoern,

Now your just going to have to share... GK pure I say, but if you need to do it to compete with others it will need to be done., a shame really, but in order to be able to compete at the same level. I have no problem with losing, but I do not want to get tabled. So what is this devious plan Brother DB?

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Re: Allies or no allies?

Post by bigbri on Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:38 am

Personally I think GK can still be competitive without allies, but like most armies allies it will obviously make you strongerif you ally in stuff to cover your weaknesses Personally I'm thinking of allying in some SW at bigger points values, as some of my fav fluff ever is the first war for Armageddon where Logan called in the GK for backup. The big question is, since SW have the Leaders of the Pack rule that lets you take up to 2 HQ's per FOC slot does that mean if you ally in SW you can take 2 HQ's?

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Re: Allies or no allies?

Post by DOMIN4TRIX on Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:55 am

I know the argument for remaining a pure force but as I have tau broadsides/suits and leman russ demolishers hanging around gathering dust the temptation may be too great!

A demolisher squadron with melta sponsons wouldnt help my army range but would certainly solve the ap1 shortage and make a mockery of fortifications and TH/SS Terminators.

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Re: Allies or no allies?

Post by Constantine on Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:39 am

bigbri wrote:Personally I think GK can still be competitive without allies, but like most armies allies it will obviously make you stronger if you ally in stuff to cover your weaknesses Personally I'm thinking of allying in some SW at bigger points values, as some of my fav fluff ever is the first war for Armageddon where Logan called in the GK for backup.

This is one of my favorite stories also!

I was just thinking (yes it still hurts! Razz )..... Fluff wise, GK are never really alone are they? IG, SM, Mechanicus, =][=, Eldar, etc... have all had their place by the GK's side in varying degrees throughout the Black Library adventures.

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Re: Allies or no allies?

Post by Sai on Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:44 am

Fluff wise we have to shoot our allies or wipe their brains right after the battle. How can you look the little guys in the eye?

Obviously not the Space Wolves though. They'd kick Grey Knight asses all over the place so they avoid mind wipes.

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Re: Allies or no allies?

Post by bigbri on Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:56 am

Sai wrote:Fluff wise we have to shoot our allies or wipe their brains right after the battle. How can you look the little guys in the eye?

Obviously not the Space Wolves though. They'd kick Grey Knight asses all over the place so they avoid mind wipes.
There's no point trying to force the Space Wolves to be mind wiped. Give them enough booze and they'll do a fairly admirable job of forgetting everything themselves lol

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Re: Allies or no allies?

Post by Newtpow on Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:23 pm

I thin kfluff wise the new allied system is nice and fits especially to GK very well. Smile

But i dont think that pure GK lists have an disadvantage of some kind. We only have sec. allies (cant join unit, cant use friendly psy forces on each other). But that is whats great about this ally system, that u can synergies with other codices.
Without that we only could get more firepower from allies. But i think with the right strategy GK wont need that.

Its a bonus option but it ll not be mandatory to win. Cool

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Re: Allies or no allies?

Post by Tiger10 on Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:14 am

If I ever use allies it won't be for power gaming. And I would prefer to use BIA instead of other armies.

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Re: Allies or no allies?

Post by MJSwasey on Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:51 am

I will certainly use allies to make my army better.

I dont understand the opposition. The GK Dex's were built on allies. The GK fluff is full of times where they temporarily faught alongside almost anyone who WASNT chaos to defeat chaos (then killed their allies) It's super de duper fluffy.

also, last codex I REALLY wanted to build an exterminatus force, a deathstrike and a bunch of GK valiently defending it while they get ready to blow the world up. now I can!

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Re: Allies or no allies?

Post by Eldar88 on Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:33 am

Currently untill my Grey Knight Force bulids up enough, I'm joining them to my Deathwing army, just a solid wall of termy armour is funny, especially with power weapon nerfing.

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Re: Allies or no allies?

Post by DonFer on Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:42 am

Eventually yes I will use allies. More possibilities and more fun, of course this can also add up to collecting a new army....

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Re: Allies or no allies?

Post by duncndisorderly on Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:37 am

For my two pennorth i'm all for allies, i just don't understand why we don't get any brotherhood allies, even if its only with Sisters of Battle. yes I understand the fluffy mind wipe etc and don't get me wrong the reason i choose knights is because of the fluff but I still wouldn't have thought it beyond the realm of possibility for Vanilla Marines or Sisters of Battle in particular to be brotherhood.

Having said that I will be running a small IG ally contingent, for the longest time i have coveted the Death Korp of Krieg models from forge world but the cost involved in making a full guard list was prohibitive, now I have the opportunity to use a small contingent i will be and from a cohesion perspective I feel the IG will bring some much needed long range firepower to my list.

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Re: Allies or no allies?

Post by itsuperslug on Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:11 am

IMO the fluff indicates that grey knights go in to battle either on there own or to help others. Vary rarely, if ever, do they ask for help themselves. They're the best, if they cant get the job done who can!

This is why my grey knights never take allies, that and I can't find spare points!

My Ultramarines though do take a strike squad (painted as deathwatch) as allies.

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Re: Allies or no allies?

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