750pts Tourny GK Army - Need Advise

I current have 2 lists which I have made. Take a look and feel free to comment and improve in any way. I'm new to gaming and this is my first 40k army and first 40k games coming up.

HQ Units
Grand Master - 190 pts
Wargear - Term armour, Storm Bolter, Nem force Sword, Frag/Frak & Psk grenades, Iron Halo, 3 Servo skulls.

Troops
Strike Squad Alpha - 125 pts
1x Justicar / 4x Grey Knights
Wargear - Power Armour, Storm Bolters9 (x4), Nem Force Halberd (x4), frag/krak & psy grenades, targeters, Psilencer (x1).
Deep Strike

Strike Squad Bravo - 105 pts
1x Justicar / 4x Grey Knights
Wargear - Power Armour, Storm Bolters (x4), Nem force swords (x4), frag/krak & psy grenades, targeters, Psilencer (x1).
Deep Strike

Heavy Support
Nemesis DreadKnight - 195 pts
Wargear – Dreadknight armour, 2 Nem Doomfists, Gatling psilencer, Heavy incinerator.

Dreadnought - 135 pts
Wargear – Smoke launchers, 2 Twin-linked Autocannon's, Psybolt ammunition.

Second List

HQ Units
Librarian - 205 pts
Wargear - Term armour, Storm Bolter, Nem force Sword, Frag/Frak & Psk grenades, Psychic hood, 3 Servo skulls. The shrouding, Vortex of Doom, Sanctuary.

Troops
Strike Squad Alpha - 105 pts
1x Justicar / 4x Grey Knights
Wargear - Power Armour, Storm Bolters9 (x4), Nem Force Swords (x4), frag/krak & psy grenades, targeters, Psilencer (x1).
Deep Strike

Strike Squad Bravo - 105 pts
1x Justicar / 4x Grey Knights
Wargear - Power Armour, Storm Bolters (x4), Nem Force Swords (x4), frag/krak & psy grenades, targeters, Psilencer (x1).
Deep Strike

Heavy Support
Purgation Squad – 200 pts
1x Justicar / 4x Grey Knights
Wargear – Power Armour, Frag/ Krak & Psyk-out grenades, Psycannons (x4), Nem Force sword & storm Bolter (justicar), Psybolt ammo.

Dreadnought - 135 pts
Wargear – Smoke launchers, 2 Twin-linked Autocannon's, Psybolt ammunition.



All Advise is very welcome

They're great starts, but i think something a lot of new players understimate is the importance of a lot of bodies. GK definitely need a cool HQ and supporting units, but because they're so expensive it's best to build a good core and only have a minimal of good support.

Might i suggest dropping the DK/purge squad for larger strike squads? I think you'll be happier with the performance. you'd have a nice solid core of around 20 troops, some anti tank in the dreadnought, and extra survivability in the libby, instead of being a very fragile force of few models.

Also, psilencers are a heavy weapon with a short range - so you can't use it when deep striking, and people will either move out of range or just absorb a few more bolter shots the next turn. I'd try and skimp on a skull or two, or the short ranged, small blast of vortex, to get some psycannons or leave out special weapons alltogether.

At this points level it is going to be hard to get a lot of models on the field.
Your H.Q choice is takeing up over a quarter of your points in one model.
If you want to go the pure G.K way at this points level then I would look at the Brotherhood champ. The grand master a great buff for your units, but you have so few models on the board that he will not help much. If you want to look at a cheaper option then an inquisitor is the way to go (this is the one that I would take, the Ordo herecticus one as he can still have 3 skulls, and they are only three points each.)
The psylancer is free for the G.K strike squad, there is a good reason for this, in this squad this is one of the worst options for you, it means that you have a scoring unit that cannot move and shoot. Take the psy cannon, I think is is one of the best things that G.K have going for them in the new codex.
Dread knights at this point level are going to be hard to beat, your opp has to fire all of his heavy weapons at it and it will take the heat away from your other units. The Dread nought, whilst providing great fire support, can be taken out by one shot, not so with the dread knight.
Weapons for the dreadknight, change the psylancer and the incerator in on a heavy psycannon (optional) and a Nem great sword. The reason that I say the psy cannon is optional is that if you are looking to kill vech with him then the psy cannon may take them out before you get there and you cannot charge, the charge gets you closser to the opp and if you are left standing there in the open, you may die, so you will find yourself not shooting with it in order to get that extra 6" up the field. He is a beast, let him off the chain.
The dreadnought can be added in as the points level of your games go up.
Larger strike squad will help, and the points should now be free to get them.

i agree with my brothers for the body count, and for the psycannons : at 750 points the A/T possibilities of psycannons are enough in nearly any situations so you could drop the DK and maybe the dread to enhance your troops and body count. If you like dreads (as i do) then i suggest a more versatile one with one psycannon or autocannon and psyammo AND a nemesis doomfist to block and destroy units in cc that can't harm you or to fight MCs and vehicles.
finally i think that brotherhood champ is good but at that level of points i think the libbis is more versatile and offers you much more possibilities...
Aubec

As a GK purist I never thought I would agree that an =I= would be a good idea. Making only 1500+ point lists so far I'd overlooked how much most of our GK HQ choices suck up the points. You'll definitely need more bodies on the board so as stated by others, a cheaper HQ and only fielding one Dreadnought/knight will give you the points needed.

I have to say waking up to some great advise from you all is fantastic. Thank-you very much for your help in this. So I have taken into account everything you all suggested, and come up with this new list. While I lack long range fire power I plan on Deep Striking the Strike Squads or Dread-knight if needed to take out any enemy long range.

HQ Units
Inquisitor Valeria - 140 pts
Wargear – Power Armour, Laspistol, Grav beamer, Dagger of Midnight, Frag/Krak & Psyk out grenades, Forceshield, Hyperstone Maze, Runes of Destiny.

Troops
Strike Squad Alpha - 210 pts
1x Justicar / 9x Grey Knights
Wargear - Power Armour, Storm Bolters9 (x10), Nem Force Sword (x9), Nem Force Hal -MC (Just), frag/krak & psy grenades.
Deep Strike

Strike Squad Bravo - 210 pts
1x Justicar / 9x Grey Knights
Wargear - Power Armour, Storm Bolters (x10), Nem force swords (x9), Nem Force Hal -MC (Just), frag/krak & psy grenades.
Deep Strike

Nemesis DreadKnight - 195 pts
Wargear – Dreadknight armour, 1 Nem Doomfist, Heavy Psycannon, Nem Great sword.

If you combine the 4 squads to 2 you would have less kill points , and you could combat squad them to get the same thing you had, except two squads at lead 8

EDIT: thats better

The list looks a lot better now. The only things that you could look at changing is the inquisitor, I would still go cheeper, any of the unnamed inquisitors would do this and give you the servo skulls, this would also allow you to get a psy cannon in both squads and maybe a hammer on each of the justicars

HQ Group
Inquisitor Ordo Malleus - 57 pts
Wargear – Power Armour, Frag/Krak & Psyk out grenades, Daemonblade, Bolt Pistol, 3 Servo-skulls.

3x Death Cult Assassins – 45 pts
Wargear – Flak Armour, Two Power Weapons (Each), 5+ Invul Save

Troops
Strike Squad Alpha - 225 pts
1x Justicar / 9x Grey Knights
Wargear - Power Armour, Storm Bolters (x9), Nem Force Sword (x8), Nem Daemon Hammer -MC(Just), frag/krak & psy grenades, Psycannon (x1)
Deep Strike

Strike Squad Bravo - 225 pts
1x Justicar / 9x Grey Knights
Wargear - Power Armour, Storm Bolters (x9), Nem force swords (x8), Nem Daemon Hammer -MC(Just), frag/krak & psy grenades, Psycannon (x1)
Deep Strike

Nemesis DreadKnight - 195 pts
Wargear – Dreadknight armour, 1 Nem Doomfist, Heavy Psycannon, Nem Great sword.

I have gone for a close range HQ group which after watching everyone's pre-games testing there armies I feel will dominate against the Daemon Princes which are in 4 armies I will be fighting. I have to say I love the stats of the Death Cults.

I\'ve seen armies with death cultists and usaually they run a couple of crusaders with sheilds to take the hits for the death cultists makes them live longer

I\'ve never run this are crusaders or death cultists do i dont now if this is a good thing but the longer those deadly woman live the more dead

If your foot slogging, heading towards an enemy, I always find it handy to use a Rhino as a meat shield. It should be handy for getting your inquisitor across the battlefield safely and quickly.

Also I think it's a good idea you've decided to make most of the GK's deep strike ability.

I don't like your dread knight, with a personal teleporter it would make it alot more dangerous. It can also make effective support to them Strike squads which can get isolated after their deep strike using the 'shunt' move to get into a good position.

Add 1 or 2 more pyscannons to destroy armor.

Good luck!

While I dont current own enough troops to field the crusaders or rino right now, I can see a list like this being deadly for only 750pts... I will look to increasing my models after the tourny for a 1500 grey knight army.

HQ Group
Inquisitor Ordo Malleus - 57 pts
Wargear – Power Armour, Frag/Krak & Psyk out grenades, Daemonblade, Bolt Pistol, 3 Servo-skulls.

6x Death Cult Assassins – 90 pts
3x Crusaders - 45 pts ... 3+ Invul save
Wargear – Flak Armour, Two Power Weapons (Each), 5+ Invul Save

Troops
Strike Squad Alpha - 225 pts
1x Justicar / 9x Grey Knights
Wargear - Power Armour, Storm Bolters (x9), Nem Force Sword (x8), Nem Daemon Hammer -MC(Just), frag/krak & psy grenades, Psycannon (x1)
Deep Strike

Strike Squad Bravo - 125 pts
1x Justicar / 4x Grey Knights
Wargear - Power Armour, Storm Bolters (x4), Nem force swords (x3), Nem Daemon Hammer -MC(Just), frag/krak & psy grenades, Psycannon (x1)
Deep Strike

Dreadnought - 135 pts
Wargear – Smoke launchers, 2 Twin-linked Autocannon's, Psybolt ammunition.

Rhino - 40 pts - HQ Squad

Total - 742 pts, 3+ Invul saves to HQ squad, on a charge with good demonblade rolls at start around 29 dice, 24 of those ignore all armour rolls and wound with strength 5 hits. Bye Bye Terminator Squad maybe.

I think you included your Rhino's point cost in your crusaders. The list only totals 702.

You are on the right path now, after playing a few games you can find what works best for yourself, good luck

ditto what frost said

*Whispers so Brother MJS can't hear*
Hey, you got some spare points, give your Knight squads psybolt ammo!

aha, caught you!

actually, take a look at my 2000 pt bat rep list - everything that isn't an IC has psybolt ammo. In dakka lists, on deepstrikers, and in certain other cases, it's very effective!

and since someone said you seem to have an extra 40 points and two ten man squads....... perfect fit.....

Heheh, found again! Well there we go! And I see your entirely right Brother MJS!

Well guys, I took into account all the advise I recieved and have to say I am very thankful for it. I used standard military flanking tactics while playing and foung that it works in real life and on a game board lol. Ended up going with this army after buying a few more models.

HQ Units
Inquisitor Valeria - 140 Pts

Troops

Strike Squad Pegasus
4 Grey Knights, 1 Justicar - 145 Pts
Wargear
Power armour, Storm bolters, Nemesis force swords, Frag/ Krak and Psyk-out grenades
Transport – Razorback with Psy-bolt ammunition.

Strike Squad Para
4 Grey Knights, 1 Justicar - 145 Pts
Wargear
Power armour, Storm bolters, Nemesis force swords, Frag/ Krak and Psyk-out grenades
Transport – Razorback with Psy-bolt ammunition.

Heavy Support
Dreadnought Captain Vanguardio - 135 Pts
Wargear
Smoke launchers, Two Twin-linked Autocannons, Psy-bolt ammunition.

Nemesis Dreadknight Lord Autarch Savak - 180 Pts
Wargear
Dreadknight armour, Heavy psycannon, Nemesis Daemon Hammer

First Game was against the tourny favourate and it went very well. He deployed his chaos army in the centre of the board so I flanked both Razorbacks around the left side forcing him to move most of his army to engage. Turn 2 I pulled off a deep strike with my dreadknight next to his long range dread and then proceeded to pick apart his army from the rear with the heavy psycannon. My Razorbacks formed a screen allowing my troops to fire with relitive safety and I only lost 1 due to a demon prince. The match ended in turn 4 after I killed his Deamon prince with my Inquisitors hyperstone maze. He left with no forces on the field. My loses where 1 Razor, 3 GK's, and an imobile Dread.

The rest of the tourny went well and I ended in 3rd place out of 25 ppl. Not bad for a new guy. Have to say Eldar left me wanting big time. Couldnt counter there range.

You really need psycannons vs eldar, or several PsyDreads.
They now have to rely almost totally on mobility and denying engagement to win (which is why they are so boring to play imo) and unless your army can deal with that its a very crappy game.