New GK's 2000 pts

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New GK's 2000 pts

Post by Rivan on Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:26 am

I'm starting to think of a viable GT list to put together for an upcoming GT in May. It is literally frustrating that I can't fit all the cool units I want to use w/ 2000 pts. So this is the first list that stays true to my personal flavor (all GK's). I really wanted to use a SR but I personally feel it's too flimsy until I test it out more. So even though it's costing me an extra 45 pts, I went w/ a LRR.

HQ Grandmaster (260)
- Psycannon, rad grenades, blind grenades, 3 servo-skulls, master-craft

HQ Librarian (170)
- Summoning, Warp Rift, Quicksilver, Might of Titan

TR GKSS (260)
- 10 x GKSS
- 2 psycannons, 6 halberds, 1 hammer

TR GKT (225)
- 5 x GKT
- 1 psycannon, 1 hammer, 3 halberds, 1 sword

EL Paladin Squad (265)
- 4 x Paladins
- 1 psycannon, 2 halberds, 1 hammer, 1 sword, 1 brotherhood banner

EL Purifier Squad (308)
- 10 x Purifiers
- 2 incinerators, 1 hammer, 4 halberds, 3 falchions, rhino

HS Land Raider Redeemer (250)
- Psybolt ammo

HS Nemesis Dreadknight (260)
- Heavy incinerator, greatsword, personal teleporter

The GKSS will for split up into combat squads so I can spread out the Warp Quake goodness Razz This will give me a minimum of 3 scoring units + possibly some more due to Grand Strategy. I have several options of who to put in the LRR: GM+Libby+paladins, or Libby+purifiers, or Libby+GKT's. Whichever unit stays behind can always be "summoned" by the libby anyway. If the purifiers go in the LRR, one of the GKSS combat squads can take their rhino.
The NDK is pricey but I think this is the best load out for it. The personal teleporter just gives it so much more threat value. And with the greatsword, I have a choice b/w a S6 re-roll to hit, to wound and armor pen force weapon or a S10 DCCW.

Thoughts?

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"Though we face the power of hell, and death is at our side, we fear not, for the Emperor is with us through it all. If we live, we live for the Emperor. If we die, we die for the Emperor. So whether we live or die, we are the Emperor's. We are Grey Knights and this is why we came to be." --Grandmaster Rivan

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: New GK's 2000 pts

Post by NemesisForce on Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:55 am

The only weakness I see is the lack of long-range heavy a/t. At 2000 points there's gonna be some heavy armor out there. This is really an in-your-face army and you'll have to get warm and cuddley real quick. You might want to think of giving units Scout instead of Scoring to get the boys upfield quicker or even to outflank. Looks good though.

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Re: New GK's 2000 pts

Post by Rivan on Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:02 am

I know. No lascannons, that's a first for me Razz

Some changes I need/plan to make:
-have to fix the paladin unit. Slind pointed out I need at least 5 to take a psycannon
-thinking of replacing the LRR w/ a godhammer LR (but can only fit 5 or 10 in there) or a SR - cheaper, very mobile but a little flimsy.

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"Though we face the power of hell, and death is at our side, we fear not, for the Emperor is with us through it all. If we live, we live for the Emperor. If we die, we die for the Emperor. So whether we live or die, we are the Emperor's. We are Grey Knights and this is why we came to be." --Grandmaster Rivan

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: New GK's 2000 pts

Post by Rivan on Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:26 am

Ok, list A replaces the LRR w/ a LR and it gave enough points to give the purifier squad 2 p-cannons instead.

HQ Grandmaster (260)
-Psycannon, rad grenades, blind grenades, 3 servo-skulls, master-craft

HQ Librarian (170)
-Summoning, Warp Rift, Quicksilver, Might of Titan

TR GKSS (260)
-10 x GKSS, 2 psycannons, 6 halberds, 1 hammer

TR GKT (225)
-5 x GKT, 1 psycannon, 1 hammer, 3 halberds, 1 sword

EL Paladin Squad (245)
-4 x Paladins, 1 halberd, 1 hammer, 1 sword, 1 brotherhood banner

EL Purifier Squad (328)
-10 x Purifiers, 2 psycannons, 1 hammer, 4 halberds, 3 falchions, rhino

HS Land Raider (250)
-Psybolt ammo

HS Nemesis Dreadknight (260)
-Heavy incinerator, greatsword, personal teleporter

List B replaces the LRR w/ a SR and it gives me 47 pts to play around with (rhino for the GKSS squad? another GKT?)

HQ Grandmaster (260)
-Psycannon, rad grenades, blind grenades, 3 servo-skulls, master-craft

HQ Librarian (170)
-Summoning, Warp Rift, Quicksilver, Might of Titan

TR GKSS (260)
-10 x GKSS, 2 psycannons, 6 halberds, 1 hammer

TR GKT (225)
-5 x GKT, 1 psycannon, 1 hammer, 3 halberds, 1 sword

EL Paladin Squad (245)
-4 x Paladins, 1 halberd, 1 hammer, 1 sword, 1 brotherhood banner

EL Purifier Squad (328)
-10 x Purifiers, 2 psycannons, 1 hammer, 4 halberds, 3 falchions, rhino

FA Stormraven (205)

HS Nemesis Dreadknight (260)
-Heavy incinerator, greatsword, personal teleporter

Thoughts/suggestions on which list?


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"Though we face the power of hell, and death is at our side, we fear not, for the Emperor is with us through it all. If we live, we live for the Emperor. If we die, we die for the Emperor. So whether we live or die, we are the Emperor's. We are Grey Knights and this is why we came to be." --Grandmaster Rivan

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: New GK's 2000 pts

Post by NemesisForce on Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:45 am

Personally, I'd wouldn't run both the Libby and GM. That's almost a quarter of your army tied up in HQ points. Even though I understand you want to use his shiny new powers, I'd use list A, drop the Libby and Rhino and truck the Purifiers around in a Stormraven. Sure the SR is potentially fragile, but at 2000 points I don't think your Rhino is going to last long especially if people know what's in it.

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Re: New GK's 2000 pts

Post by Rivan on Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:58 am

I considered that. But the libby also brings the only psychic hood I can take. That's his primary role for my list since we don't really have any other real psychic defense.

You're right though, 430 pts for HQ's is a big chunk scratch

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"Though we face the power of hell, and death is at our side, we fear not, for the Emperor is with us through it all. If we live, we live for the Emperor. If we die, we die for the Emperor. So whether we live or die, we are the Emperor's. We are Grey Knights and this is why we came to be." --Grandmaster Rivan

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: New GK's 2000 pts

Post by DarkRonin on Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:59 am

I like the Librarian, but I think it might be wise to upgrade it to a Level 3 Psyker to spam the spells a bit more if you have the points in List B. If your going to rely on "The Summoning" then you should try to spam it as much as possible. Especially ups the chances of managing to bypass a Psychic Power denial item.

Also, quick question because I haven't actually seen the codex yet (Not until Friday when the local hobby store gets its preview copy), but do the Psybolt Ammunition give a +1 to Strength of Heavy Bolters as well? So that would make it like the old Psycannons then?

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Re: New GK's 2000 pts

Post by Rivan on Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:09 pm

DarkRonin wrote:I like the Librarian, but I think it might be wise to upgrade it to a Level 3 Psyker to spam the spells a bit more if you have the points in List B. If your going to rely on "The Summoning" then you should try to spam it as much as possible. Especially ups the chances of managing to bypass a Psychic Power denial item.

Also, quick question because I haven't actually seen the codex yet (Not until Friday when the local hobby store gets its preview copy), but do the Psybolt Ammunition give a +1 to Strength of Heavy Bolters as well? So that would make it like the old Psycannons then?

Yes, the psybolt ammo gives +1 to heavy bolters as well.

For list B, upgrading the libby to level 3 is definitely an attractive option. I'm just looking at an even higher HQ points spread...480 pts! Razz

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"Though we face the power of hell, and death is at our side, we fear not, for the Emperor is with us through it all. If we live, we live for the Emperor. If we die, we die for the Emperor. So whether we live or die, we are the Emperor's. We are Grey Knights and this is why we came to be." --Grandmaster Rivan

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: New GK's 2000 pts

Post by DarkRonin on Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:11 pm

That is true, but think of the benefits of having a NON-Special Character that can spam not one, not two, BUT THREE SPELLS a TURN!!! I'd be tempted to field one for myself if I can think of a decent way to model one.

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Re: New GK's 2000 pts

Post by Border on Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:29 pm

I personally think that that SR is underrated. The way I see it, is like this.

Turn 1 Move flat out to get that cover save, turn 2 disembark just the Libby and use the summoning at the full range to maximize its effect. Move the SR in to assault, while your libby and summoned squad brings up the rear shooting anything in their way.

The benefits for the libby are, the increased range that he can summon in turn 2, and potentially the more powers he can use in the game. Successfully maximizing his point cost, and putting tuns of pressure on the enemy early in the game. The question is, do you want them shooting at your DK or your SR first? Putting tons of pressure in the right places means you can control what the enemy is firing at.

I personally love putting so much pressure on my opponent that he has to rethink constantly about what he is going to shoot at. Also, people have had this mind set that Grey Knights always take LR's. So they are more than likely to take Melta weapons of some kind. The benefit of the S.R. again is that they don't get that extra dice with Melta's anymore, which affectively makes them worse than Las weapons.

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Re: New GK's 2000 pts

Post by Rivan on Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:53 pm

It depends on whether you go first or second I guess.

If I go first, I can start on the board and move flat out. My 4+ cover is probably not going to hold up vs. a significant amount of missile launchers, lascannons or bright lance shots. Any immobilized result = destroyed so that's a 50% chance of biting it if my cover fails.

If I go second, I'll almost be forced to start my SR in reserve because it'll be extremely difficult to provide it a cover save. While I can use psychic communion to semi-affect my reserve rolls, I'll be at the mercy of the dice just to get the SR in the game.

Don't get me wrong, I like the SR. Among our options, I think it is the fastest way to get a unit from point A to point B. It really just won't survive for very long. I guess being able to take out something significant w/ its multi-melta or TWLLC as well as deliver a lethal unit into CC would be enough justification Very Happy

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"Though we face the power of hell, and death is at our side, we fear not, for the Emperor is with us through it all. If we live, we live for the Emperor. If we die, we die for the Emperor. So whether we live or die, we are the Emperor's. We are Grey Knights and this is why we came to be." --Grandmaster Rivan

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: New GK's 2000 pts

Post by DarkRonin on Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:00 pm

How about this though, you scout before the game begins and it the Storm Raven bites the dust. Your Librarian is still alive with the rest of your gang on the other side of the table. It uses "The Summoning," and now you have MOST of your army with you on your opponents side of the table.

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Re: New GK's 2000 pts

Post by Rivan on Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:03 pm

DarkRonin wrote:How about this though, you scout before the game begins and it the Storm Raven bites the dust. Your Librarian is still alive with the rest of your gang on the other side of the table. It uses "The Summoning," and now you have MOST of your army with you on your opponents side of the table.

It actually won't be a Scout move because the SR can't be given Scout by Grand Strategy, but I know what you're saying. 205 pts just seems a steep cost for something that will probably not last more than 2 turns IMO.

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"Though we face the power of hell, and death is at our side, we fear not, for the Emperor is with us through it all. If we live, we live for the Emperor. If we die, we die for the Emperor. So whether we live or die, we are the Emperor's. We are Grey Knights and this is why we came to be." --Grandmaster Rivan

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: New GK's 2000 pts

Post by DarkRonin on Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:11 pm

Aye, something sturdier like a Land Raider is good to have. How can the SR not be given Scout by the GM? Did this change from the leak as well?


---EDIT---

Whoops, forgot about the specific unit type that the rule can be applied to.

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Re: New GK's 2000 pts

Post by Rivan on Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:05 pm

Ok, working on list 2 (w/ the SR), here's what I came up with: Still trying to work w/o dropping the libby so I took out the rhino and the 2 p-cannons from the purifiers (since they'll be in the SR, 'cinnies would be better), made some adjustments and I was able to bolster the paladin squad:

HQ Grandmaster (260)
-Psycannon, rad grenades, blind grenades, 3 servo-skulls, master-craft

HQ Librarian (180)
-Summoning, Warp Rift, Quicksilver, Might of Titan, 1 servo-skull, Master-craft

TR GKSS (260)
-10 x GKSS, 2 psycannons, 6 halberds, 1 hammer

TR GKT (225)
-5 x GKT, 1 psycannon, 1 hammer, 3 halberds, 1 sword

EL Paladin Squad (340)
-5 x Paladins, 2 psycannons, 2 halberds, 1 hammer, 1 sword, 1 brotherhood banner

EL Purifier Squad (270)
-10 x Purifiers, 2 incinerator, 1 hammer, 5 halberds, 2 falchions, Master-craft (Justicar)

FA Stormraven (205)

HS Nemesis Dreadknight (260)
-Heavy incinerator, greatsword, personal teleporter

The purifiers+libby will take the SR and hopefully gets to where it needs to. Libby can then summon whichever unit I want. NDK will do its thing. The rest can hold objectives or advance w/ a total of 6 psycannons. Again, big weakness is long range AT. I'll just have to do it from medium to close range. 4 servo-skulls and 2 warp quakes should do a good job of area denial vs. infiltrators, scouts and DSing units respectively.

Interestingly, since I'm already spending 260 pts on the GM, a few adjustments here and there and I can actually just use Draigo. Suddenly my paladins are scoring and my main HQ is freakin' CRAZY Razz

What do you guys think?


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"Though we face the power of hell, and death is at our side, we fear not, for the Emperor is with us through it all. If we live, we live for the Emperor. If we die, we die for the Emperor. So whether we live or die, we are the Emperor's. We are Grey Knights and this is why we came to be." --Grandmaster Rivan

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: New GK's 2000 pts

Post by DarkRonin on Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:12 pm

If your only a few points away from using Draigo, use him if you can tweak it. Other then that, you could get a similar result from using the Grand Strategy on the Paladin Squad, but you'll be looking at one less Psycannon. And as a Psycannon totting lover, I'm more partial to its use.

The lists looks solid for what has become of GK (Short-Mid Range) units. Spamming Summoning may help quite a bit to in getting across the table. I'm sure that if you can, you could probably cast it Twice the same way that Warptime is for CSM since both are used at the start of the player turn.

Though, I am curious how others will rage about a S10 Daemonhammer totting Grey knight. I can already hear complaints about that. Doesn't mean I won't use it, it'll be the way that any of us could destroy vehicles in CC with our units.

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Re: New GK's 2000 pts

Post by Border on Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:58 pm

Yeah, I think the move to Draigo would be a good one. You can rely on the paladins holding an objective for quite awhile.

I like the changes to Incinerators, makes sense putting them in the SR. I am also excited to see how well the Nemesis Dreadknight's incinerator does.

How many units can you split up into combat squads?

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Re: New GK's 2000 pts

Post by Nausaden on Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:13 pm

I'm likeing the lists Rivan! I'd like to see you incorporate Draigo at this point. I'd prefer the LR myself, it's durability and ability to deny LOS to units disembarking is very useful. Plus, if you can get warp stab on it, teleport it to the librarian (he can get a teleport homer, right?)

Super glad your using the Dreadknight, thats how I see myself using him too. He's only Str 6 against vehicles, but the 2D6 and re-rolls make up for that by far.

Oh, what do the servo skulls do by the way? Very curious.

How do you intend to field the GKSS and the Purifiers? Teleporting them to the Libby? In fact, what is the main point of the GKSS? Aside from being a troop choice. *Laughs* I guess I am just super excited about fielding Termies; how are you going to use your 5? Foot slog or teleport? I am thinking the Daemonhammers +hamemr hand are your main anti-tank right?

All and all, I really like the lists, and the stormraven shows a lot of potential. I fear that rhino spam might be a problem, since you have to crack it only to get shot up.


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Re: New GK's 2000 pts

Post by Rivan on Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:28 pm

@Border: Both the GKSS and the purifiers can split into combat squads if needed.

@Nausaden:
-There's still debate whether a teleport homer will work with "the summoning"
-servo skulls: before the game starts, the servo-skulls can be placed anywhere on the table except in your opponent's deployment zone. they prevent infiltrators from setting up within 12" of one. They also prevent any scout moves within 12". Furthermore, when you fire any template weapons and the target is within 12" of a skull, it only scatters 1d6. Lastly, if you DS a unit within 12", it will only scatter 1d6. They cannot be shot at. But if an enemy unit moves to within 6" of one, it self-destructs and is removed from play.
-the GKSS will split into 2 combat squads so I can use Warp Quake and prevent any DSing units from arriving within a 12" radius of both units Very Happy
-the purifiers will most probably be w/ the libby in the SR. the libby will then "summon" the other units to his location when needed.

At least, that's the plan Razz

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"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: New GK's 2000 pts

Post by Nausaden on Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:49 pm

Very Happy Ah, VERY cool Rivan! Thanks for explaining all that to me.

So I take it that deepstriking enemys are very common with you? I like the servo skulls a LOT. Very handy.

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Re: New GK's 2000 pts

Post by Rivan on Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:54 pm

Nausaden wrote:Very Happy Ah, VERY cool Rivan! Thanks for explaining all that to me.

So I take it that deepstriking enemys are very common with you? I like the servo skulls a LOT. Very handy.

Drop pod assaults and DSing demons have always been a problem before. Not anymore, not w/ Warp quake anyway Razz

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"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: New GK's 2000 pts

Post by NemesisForce on Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:33 pm

Wow, the skulls do all that? What's the cost on those bone-puppies?

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Re: New GK's 2000 pts

Post by Rivan on Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:54 pm

NemesisForce wrote:Wow, the skulls do all that? What's the cost on those bone-puppies?

5 pts each. GM can take max of 3. Libby can take max of 3.

My list has 4. That should be enough coverage I think Razz

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"Though we face the power of hell, and death is at our side, we fear not, for the Emperor is with us through it all. If we live, we live for the Emperor. If we die, we die for the Emperor. So whether we live or die, we are the Emperor's. We are Grey Knights and this is why we came to be." --Grandmaster Rivan

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: New GK's 2000 pts

Post by NemesisForce on Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:15 pm

Can the skulls be targeted and destroyed?

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Re: New GK's 2000 pts

Post by Nausaden on Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:23 pm

Not targeted; if the enemy gets within 6" they self destruct. Still, fantastic. Especially the 1D6 for deepstrikes within 12", and the stopping of infiltrating monkeys like Shrike I imagine.

So Rivan, how do you intend to have your GKSS's spread out? Using cover, behind the LR, moving up towards objectives? I am very curious. And are your GK Termies going to deepstrike you think? I am a fan of lots of teleporting, especially thanks to the libby's Summoning power. I bloody hope the teleport homer counts, since it uses deep strike rules.

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Re: New GK's 2000 pts

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