1750pt Grey Knights at the Welsh 3 Feathers tournament

Just back a couple of hours ago from the 3 Feathers tournament (theres only 12 players at this heat instead of 16 unfortunately).

I've taken the same 1750pts that I did at the European Championships but Nemesis Force Weapons have to be treated as normal force weapons with regard to Eternal Warrior, Synapse, etc

My army is:

Grey Knight Grand Master
+ Psychic Hood
+ Sacred Incense
4x Grey Knight Terminator retinue
+ Psycannon
Total = 384pts

Grey Knight Justicar
+ Frag Grenades
4x Grey Knights
Total = 151pts

Grey Knight Justicar
+ Frag Grenades
4x Grey Knights
Total = 151pts

Grey Knight Justicar
+ Frag Grenades
4x Grey Knights
Total = 151pts

Grey Knight Justicar
+ Frag Grenades
4x Grey Knights
Total = 151pts

1x Grey Knights Land Raider Crusader
+ Smoke Launchers
Total= 258pts

1x Grey Knights Land Raider
+ Smoke Launchers
Total= 253pts

1x Grey Knights Land Raider

TOTAL: 1749pts

So far I've only drawn all 3 of my games today (VS Space Wolves, Daemons, and Nurgle Plague Guard marines) and it's been suprisingly tough going for such a small tournament, though the opponents have been really friendly. I've had 2 great games and 1 good game so far, with the daemon game being one of the most fun I've ever played - with both armies being almost totally wiped out with the exceptions of the land raiders and his 2 soul grinders.

I know my next game tomorrow morning is against a space marine army with some drop pods (I've bought the space marine codex to try to brush up on the new marine rules but I've also come home with a 100+ model sisters of battle army that I swapped for my tyranids so they keep distracting me!).

During a practice game on friday night I played against daemons and came against something I'm not sure about and would really appreciate your opinions on how it should be playe (or even better - a page reference to the solution!). This is what happened:

Herald of Tzeentch on a chariot assault a knight unit. I asked for a difficult terrain test for it to assault and expected it to be iniative 1 for the first round due to it being daemonic. My opponent then explained that the model moved like a jetbike and was required to take a dangerous terrain test instead and, because he didn't have to take the difficult terrain test the herald would be striking first as it was initiative 5 on the charge. After reading the rules I could understand what he meant but it just didn't make sense! How do you/would you play this situation?

That's a tuffy since both of you have a case. Personally I don't make my opponent strike at Initiative 1 as the Difficult Terrain rule is specific to the defender being actually in terrain and 'setting an ambush'. I see the roll the Daemons have to make is just because we're really hard on the eyes. By the way, how does your smaller GK squads make out?

They take a 'difficult terrain test' purely for assault range, (Rites of Exorcism rule I'm assuming) I can't see how you would get the attack at initiative 1 thing from that, and by the same count even models who don't need to take difficult terrain tests would have to take that assault range test anyway (they are just clarifying a point as far as I read it not actually making it the referenced test) if they are daemons because it represents the daemons reaction to grey knights which is a reaction of almost physical pain and of fear, something daemons would rarely experience.

That being said I don't know any players with daemons nor have ever met one, so I don't know if thats the generally accepted use of that rule

You were totally right to question this, Brother!

You can play it however you like in Friendly games, but most tournaments use rules as written, and here are the rules on page 36 of the Big Book:

"If an assaulting unit had to take a difficult or dangerous terrain test during their assault move, all of it's models have their initiative lowered to one when attacking, regardless of other modifiers"

It seems pretty clear that YOU would strike first, no matter why the test was taken. I checked the bike and jetbike sections to be sure, and nothing contradicts this clear cut rule - whenever your enemy has to be extra careful approaching you and your already set up in an area, you can lunge out and strike first! I'm sure he thought he was right and just remembered the difficult terrain part and wanted to cleverly use what he thought was rules knowledge, but if it happens again, point out this rule and let him know he thought your grey knights were so ugly he flinched, and then you struck him first! or you can go with the "we're so holy it hurts fluff" if you must. Just let him know his DAEMONS flinch at your mighty knights, no matter what!

I can't see how you would get the attack at initiative 1 thing from that,

Re-reading the rules for the rites of exorcism and the going back to the rulebook regarding assualting through difficult terrain I can see that maybe I've been playing it wrong but I'm a little confused because it states that the daemons assaulting grey knights "must roll dice for their assault range as if they were moving through difficult ground" and in the rulebook (p36) it states that "...To represent this, if an assaulting unit had to take a difficult or dangerous terrain test during their assault move, all of its models have their initiative valued lowered to 1 when attacking..."

So if the daemons are repelled/slowed by the rites shouldn't they also suffer the initiative penalty for being slowed as they would if they were slowed by going through difficult terrain?

and by the same count even models who don't need to take difficult terrain tests would have to take that assault range test anyway

Chariots of tzeentch have the jetbike rule and this allows them to make a dangerous terrain test (which doesn't affect their assault movement) instead of making a difficult terrain test so (and I could be wrong about this) wouldn't they be immune to having to make to make the difficult terrain test?

If I have been playing it wrong then I've got 2 daemon playing friends that I'll have to apologise to and (if I see them again) 3 daemon playing tournament players!

This is really an interesting scenario because it can go either way. By the spirit of the rules, you would think that the chariots of tzeentch would also be slowed because they are repelled or whatever by the GK's holiness. However, to take the rules to the letter, since they don't have to take a difficult terrain test, one could argue in their favor.

It's been a while since I emailed my buddies the GW Rulesboyz. I'll send this scenario to them and see what they have to say

Mighty list there Brother Khargor; I wish you much luck in your trials at the Welsh Tourny!

I'd imagine that do to the Grey Knights aura that everything our other Brothers have said to be true. Difficult terrain test at the least.