GK Rule Clarifications:

Only 4 pure gk choices?

Let's see, Grand master, brother captain, grey knight terminators, Grey knights, grey knight teleport attack squad, purgation squad, Grey knights dreadnought, land raider, land raider crusader.

Or have a missed some?

And are orks armour?

I don't understand.

Klomster wrote:
And are orks armour?

I don't understand.

I mean Orks struggle against armor was my point against nemesis force
I,e. their A.T. weapons suck, at least again AV14.

Yes, I should clarify. I was thinking in broader terms. No matter what you pick they fall in 4 categories: GKT's (GM, B-C, HQ/Elite GKT squads), GK's (Troop, Teleport, Purgation), Dreadnoughts and LR variants. Since we can't field Devastator squads, Rhinos, Chimeras, Annihilators, Predators, etc., our options for variability are limited. Therefore, my attempted point was we that shouldn't be judged too harshly for having lists with two LR's. Sorry, I should have been clearer.

Yea, i think the new vehicle damage charts work for and against us.
Alot of people look at the prospect of 2 LR's and think WHOA unfair.
Considering the fact they are 250 points and basically remove 5-9 bodies from the table its not a very fair appraisal.

Also LR's vs orcs? Well lets be fair unless you have the LRC variant your probably not going to die OR do that much damage lol
Would be cheesy if they couldn't hurt AV 14 and you just sat your GK inside on objectives but who stoops that low.

Um, orks antitank sucks?

Ok, their shooting antitank is either low strength or random.

But give a boss a powerclaw and get a few dreds or kans.

The you can rip armour like nothing!

Plus every good ork nob has a powerklaw.
(Every one, yeah, even the shootaboy nobs)

Hmmmmm.....all this talk of cheese. My opponents will say that my GM's force weapon rules are cheesy and some would say that not getting the newest version of the assault cannon is cheesy especially for an army that is supposed to have access to the best weaponry in the imperium. In the end I think it all balances out no matter what you do, so as long as what you're doing isn't against the rules then play the models you want to play.

Well actually considering if a LRC moves 12" it can brush aside CC attacks, most of the time.

For the points cost you would want it too
Huge investment for any army to have that many points invested in a unit, even one as hard to kill as a LR/LRC

Brothers, rather than open a new topic, I decided to put my question in this thread since it is about Shrouding. I don't want to sound like a noob but I'm a little confused on how shrouding works vs the new rules on blast weapons (ie plasma cannon, frag missile, etc)...

BRB says..."When firing a blast weapon, models do not roll to hit, instead just pick one enemy model visible to the firer and place the blast marker..." --does this mean they have to roll shrouding first? even if the shot may actually scatter?

C: DH says..."Guess range weapons (now termed barrage) and ordnance weapons fire as normal but double their scatter range..." --since a plasma cannon is neither, this doesn't apply, correct?

To answer your question YES!!! Your opponent must roll shrouding always when attempting to shoot at a Grey Knight, as for blast weapons the scatter is doubled as normal.

Thanks Andarius! I got confused by the fact that the firer didn't need to roll to hit...

Actually, I think for blast weapons they lose the shot entirely if they fail the Shrouding roll. There would be no scatter because they are neither 'guess' nor ordnance and totally rely on line of sight.

Your right NemesisForce, I was just implecating IF (and usually a big if) they pass it is still double the scatter range for blast template weapons.

Tee Hee...it always makes me giggle to see people try to blast me to kingdom come only to blast apart the building next to me instead.

Query: Our codex says the scatter is doubled if our GK's fall outside the number of inches rolled (meaning the firer failed to see us) when using guess or ordnance weapons.

So, if a SM using a plasma cannon (blast weapon) passes the test, won't they shoot as normal w/out double the scatter since it is not guess or ordnance?

They should scatter as normal.

Ordnance and guess weapons scatter double their scatter range If the firer failed the shrouding roll.

It is still funny though when those few times happen, f'ex when I made an battlecannon on a defiler scatter 16".

Even more accurae than ususal


But to clarify this.
The blast weapons only scatter if they see the opponet (ie, they spotted the grey knights making them able to fire at all) which makes me wonder if ordnance weps scactter double or normal, but that should be in the codex.

So a space marine fire's his missile launcher at some grey knights, he rolls for the shrouding. (as he wants to fire at grey knights with one of his squads.)

He spots the knights and roll to hit (scatter -bs as normal)

But fails miserably as he rolls 12" and as such scatter 8" and hits his sternguard veterans who die miserably and then the grey knights assults the space marine with missile launcher and the puny wannabe cool marine starts crying for his mommy becouse the grey knights are too awesome.

Let's say he missed the roll for shrouding!

Then he would get blinded by the sheer awesomeness of the grey knights and think the true angels of the emperor has descended upon them (which they have) and the grey knights run forward and incinerates the puny marine to death! (Oh, and he won't fire his rpg fail-missile)

ha ha ha

those SM you talked about must have been Chaos in discuise.

After reading the shrouding information as sad as it is, if they missed the shrouding spotting roll they can still fire ordnance or guess weapons and double the scatter.

I think with blast weapons the normal shrouding rules apply where if it isn't spotted it just fails.

In fact the biggest problem I have with shrouding is forgetting to make my opponent use it!

That is a common problem. I myself forget sometimes. To help me make it a habit, I used to have flash cards I constantly look at during the game LOL

One time, a tactical squad came up to within 12" and were going to rapid fire my PAGK squad but my opponent rolled three 1's! It was priceless

Yea those kind of moments go down in your long term memories thats for sure! Sadly the few times I've remembered shrouding (generally once or twice each game lol) its never done any good, even at 24-36 range /sigh

It's better too have it at all than too diss it.

It might work, i make my opponets roll it all the time!

And it never works, almost never anyways.

When my opponent rolls at close ranges I always light-heartedly say "you could roll three ones" hoping it might bring me some luck. It's worked once. Anybody else catch the part where if an enemy Psyker is spotting or is part of the spotting unit they can re-roll the dice? Somehow I missed that part and have never played it that way. Shame on me.

Here's what I do, and let me know if I need to be ashamed or not

Before the game starts, if my opponent has pyskers, I disclose to him that whenever he rolls for Shrouding, he gets a re-roll. However, during the game, if he forgets, I didn't feel obligated to remind him...

I have to say it would be nice is the possible range dropped a little in the next codex, its such a huge range that generally its almost not worth having. That being said obviously yes occasionally its great, but with the concentration on CC these days... well most people like getting in your face and blowing you away.

NemesisForce wrote:When my opponent rolls at close ranges I always light-heartedly say "you could roll three ones" hoping it might bring me some luck. It's worked once.

I do the same thing when my opponents are close, even if I think they have moved within 9 inches just so I can build the habit

NemesisForce wrote: Anybody else catch the part where if an enemy Psyker is spotting or is part of the spotting unit they can re-roll the dice? Somehow I missed that part and have never played it that way. Shame on me.

Sadly, I also missed it until I read your post. Yet another thing to make the shrouding not so hot, but as long as I can remember to use it, it can't hurt to try.