Dragiowing overhaul

I run a dragiowing with two ten man squads of paladins. Since seventh edition I have lost both times I played with my list and decide to change it. What are some good ideas. This is what I normally run.

SGM Dragio 275

Troops:

Alpha Squad: 10x paladins 750pts
Apothecary with halberd
Banner and Psycannon
2x Sword Paladins
Sword Paladin with Psycannon
Halberd Paladin
Hammer paladin
Halberd Paladin
Halberd Paladin with Psycannon
Hammer Paladin with Psycannon
psybolt

Bravo Squad: 10x Paladins 750pts
Apothecary with halberd
Banner and Psycannon
2x Sword Paladins
Sword Paladin with Psycannon
Halberd Paladin with psycannon
Halberd Paladin
Staff Paladin
Hammer paladins 2x
psybolt

Stormraven Lascannon/multi-melta

Total 1980

Drop the Halberds and go with Swords to increase their close combat invulnerable save by +1. Then using Sanctic powers and hope to roll 3 for Sanctuary.

First off knowing what you played in those two games and how you lost would be best for helping finetune the list.  In general I'd suggest a couple of things.  
First off lose the banners, not really worth it anymore.  Secondly drop the apothecary from bravo squad and reduce them to 5 men instead. Then take a couple of solodins with swords and hold them in reserve for late Deepstriking and objective taking. Trade in most of your halberds for swords, very few AP1/2 CC weapons hit at >I4 let alone I6 so the better invul is more useful.  Use the points you've saved to buy a libby.  
Finally make all your rolls on Telepathy rather than sanctic.  You really want as many chances as possible at Invisibility as it makes your paladins far more survivable than sanctuary,  plus having 2 x psychic shriek can really soften up monstrous creatures,  which are the most common source of Ap1/2 at initiative in my experience.

bigbri wrote:First off lose the banners, not really worth it anymore.

In a full 10x squad, having a Banner gives 10 extra attacks. If you kitted everyone with Falchions, for 10 extra attacks (or 20, rather, with the new FAQ), that would cost 50pts. This is 25pts, half the price, AND everyone still gets their NFW bonus for whatever weapon they are equipped with.
Even with the loss of auto-Force, it's still a pretty good buy, especially on a full unit.

Probably don't run it when it will benefit less than 6 models (including attached ICs).

True, but if you can't kill something with 10 paladins + IC's without the extra attacks you're doing something very wrong. Grey Knights are already points hungry as it is. Those 25pts IMO would be better spent bumping a libby up to ML3 and getting an extra roll for a useful power.

Elric Greywolf wrote:In a full 10x squad, having a Banner gives 10 extra attacks. If you kitted everyone with Falchions, for 10 extra attacks (or 20, rather, with the new FAQ), that would cost 50pts. This is 25pts, half the price, AND everyone still gets their NFW bonus for whatever weapon they are equipped with.
Even with the loss of auto-Force, it's still a pretty good buy, especially on a full unit.

Probably don't run it when it will benefit less than 6 models (including attached ICs).

the banner only gives 7 attacks, the banner bearer only hits with his banner instead of a NFW so you lose out 3 "power weapon" attacks. by switching to the banner in the first place. for 7 attacks 25 points is still not bad.

Thanks for your help. I would actually love to narrate my tragic loses. First was a 100 point against hoards of orks with alpha squad I split it into two fave man one with apothecary one with banner. The second both squad and a stormraven against tyranid that also greatly out numbered me and blasted my army to death.

If you're playing maelstrom with that list you will definitely struggle.

Msu is back in a big way 7th edition.

Paladins lost holocaust so got nerfed. I think you run solodins otherwise leave them in the box until the new codex.

In my humble opinion, our best weapons currently are:

Dreadknights
interceptors
Purifiers
Transports
Telepathy omi's
Plasma servitors
Min max telepathy psykers

Won my first game for over a year against my brother's Eldar

So they way I see is I should get rid of the halberds all together and the banner(I didn't like that part anyway). The problem with solodins is that where i play the player are fond a hoards even space marine players like to expand.

Solodins allow shots to be drawn away from your core squads and help to contest objectives. It seems risky I know, but they play a tactical advantage.

The hardest, yet funnest part of playing Grey Knights, is that they make you strategize and discern every move, psychic power, attack they make.

Also, a solodin armed with a Hammer makes a great distraction and weapon vs tank's rear, especially when fighting against Imperial Guard. And because you have one model vs five or ten, you can deepstrike out of line of sight.

I think I'll gives solodins a try I could have them mave together if need and split up. Should I keep the psycannons? So should I deep strike them all to field half?

In order to take Psycannons you must have a minimum 5-man squad, therefore Solodins cannot take a Psycannon, Incinerator, or Psilencer. However, you can form a duo, trio, etc if you like.

I dont understand the 180° on the halberds vs swords. Is it because swords now give +1A and the invul bonus, rather than only the latter?

Also, I wouldnt use Draigowing without my trusted Dreadknights. They offer much needed flexibility, speed and additional threat range to my army!

I have a Dreadknight which a have not used yet.

Nineteen73 wrote:In order to take Psycannons you must have a minimum 5-man squad, therefore Solodins cannot take a Psycannon, Incinerator, or Psilencer. However, you can form a duo, trio, etc if you like.

does that mean I have to have at least two for five for the my paladins. I didn't mag them and don't to break them apart or buy new ones.

Correct, you have to take five to get the special weapon but when you get to five you get to take two of them.

But you can take two, one or none at all if you wish

Thanks for all your help. Looks like I need to buy more paladins and PAGKs.

What type of glue did you use? If you used something like Zap-a-gap, you soak the model in Simple Green for a day or two. This will loosen the bonding a bit and could ease taking off an arm or so.

Honestly regular Citadel Plastic Glue Thin.

Plastic glue is problematic but still workable. Invest in some magnets (can get like 50 for $5 on ebay) and green stuff for future.
Draigowing with pals is dead, what doesnt kill a paladin wont kill a term either, but if you insist..
Halberds > swords because if you cant win combat against something with paladins, you shouldnt be engaging with it to begin with. Furthermore, Force at I6, why would you give MCs a chance to hit you in the first place?
Banner is a buff for 10 but will be a nerf for 5, same goes with the apothecary, both of these items limit your tactical options, so its a trade off of more grunt or more flexibility.
Sanctuary stacking is redundant when you have the option of telepathy available to you.
Id have a look at squeezing in some Inq. 55pt nets you a psyker (more chances at invis, psychic shriek will soften TH/SS termies) that can LOS small arms fire (utilize the 2 wounds on pals) and can split off before assaulting to sweep. Dont forget to get them psycannons in there and consider dropping the SR for a couple Psyflenoughts depending on your strategies. My 2c.

Reckling wrote:Plastic glue is problematic but still workable. Invest in some magnets (can get like 50 for $5 on ebay) and green stuff for future.
Draigowing with pals is dead, what doesnt kill a paladin wont kill a term either, but if you insist..
.

How is Dragiowing dead? Reminds how I'm thinking about getting some PAGKs for replacement.

I've been currently playing Draigo with 5 Paladins 2 5-man Terminator squads, Stormraven, Dreadnought, and a Dreadknight, and have been very successful with this list. Draigo + Paladins is not dead.

Nineteen73 wrote:I've been currently playing Draigo with 5 Paladins 2 5-man Terminator squads, Stormraven, Dreadnought, and a Dreadknight, and have been very successful with this list. Draigo + Paladins is not dead.

Draigo and Palies will never die! Those who disagree can expect some attention from the inquisition for entertaining such heretical thoughts.