PAGK (Powered Armor Grey Knights)

I've struggled tirelessly with how to build my PAGK. Currently, I have 20 unassembled PAGK models with a Rhino/Razorback each. My inclination is to build a Purifier army for my second list.

My conflict is this:

I don't see a real value with Strike Squad, Interceptors, and Purgation, when I weigh and compare the point cost per value to the Purfiers.
I wonder what significant changes we may see next year if our codex is released by then. But for now, the ability to Fearless, two attacks, and up to 4 ranged weapon upgrades per 10-man squads is the best deal in our codex for PAGK. I realize this is known in our forum but I'm curious to see if you could educate me in the value of the other squads. Now that 7th edition has introduced Objective Secured, Purifiers seem the sold choice.

Lastly, slightly off topic, one Dreadknight armed with a great sword, heavy incinerator, and teleporter(260-points) is a better buy over a 10-man squad on Interceptors with swords and two psycannons (280-points). What advantages does an Interceptor squad bring to our lists?

SS were usable in 6th because of their psychic power, but since psychic overhaul they are fatally redundant. Interceptors are more usable now as jump infatry, more utility and more dice if you combat squad them then a DK, but the DK still trumps. Personally im more inclined to take a squad of intys because they threaten FMCs where the DK (with a standard build) cannot. Purgators* were bad in 6th WITH their psychic power, and are now trash without it.
Unfortunately with progressive changes we are now cornered into taking purifiers, and by extension, crowe for cometitive PAGK.

*Edit typo

If you're fighting like a regular space marine army Purifiers make a lot of sense- you can find yourself an aegis line, hunker down and fire psycannons all day long.  They basically become a marine veteran squad.  Solid.  Dependable.  Boring as Roboute Guilliman talking about his latest non-fiction best seller.

I think there's a thread in the tactica section somewhere that goes on about the interceptors.   They're great mobile units being able to move 12" a turn and then jump when the situation warrants it- as soon as purifiers lose their rhino they're down to 6" a turn with little hope of getting to an enemy objective, let alone into close combat where their superior close combat abilities will actually make a difference.

Interceptors with psyrounds are very good at 'kiting' the enemy- staying at 20-24".  Psycannons may be a waste seeing as you're constantly moving, but basically they work a little like eldar swooping hawks- providing interference and generally being a pain before claiming an objective.  The best case scenario is that your opponent actually takes notice of them and attempts to chase them down rather than moving for the objectives.

A dreadknight with an incinerator isn't a better buy than an interceptor squad, it's a different buy.  The best thing I find is to take both and have them cover each other's weaknesses.  The dreadknight lacks volume of fire and the interceptors lack close combat clobbering ability but by using them in tandem they make a good all-round strike force.  

Never underestimate the awesome ability to put troopers exactly where you want them within 30".  You want to hit something with your dreadknight but you know it will move away after you teleport?  Use your interceptors to literally surround and corral them ready for the knight to charge in next turn.  Being exactly where you need to be is also why incinerators cost so much for interceptors- they're amazing.  You can put your models exactly where they need to be to hit as many enemy as possible.   Firing psycannons at gone-to-ground troopers behind an aegis wall is a nigh-on waste of time.  Firing 2 incinerators and a heavy incinerator will sort out the problem with immediate effect.

I normally take a full strength interceptor squad and put both incinerators into one combat squad unless we're playing kill points in which case they all stay together.  I often end up playing eldar and tau, so being able to roast a scout/ pathfinder squad on the first turn and claim first blood is handy.  Killing the imperial guard high command with their advisors and orders is nice too.  If I want to be very sure I use grand strategy on the interceptors so they re-roll ones to wound.  Killing commanders on the first turn on a 2+ with a re-roll is actually sort of broken, but to hell with that, in a world of wave serpents, leman russ squadrons and riptides I'll take what I can get.

I tend to use teleport assaults a lot because that's pretty much how I imagine Grey Knights should work.  The dreadknight, interceptors and dreadnought deploy normally and basically keep there heads down in the first turn while moving into position.  The terminators can obviously scatter which makes their exact position impossible to predict, but wherever they end up the interceptors and dreadknight can immediately shunt forward into support positions.  Rather than the enemy having 2-3 squads of terminators behind their lines, they have the majority of my army shooting incinerators, psycannons and psybolts into their backs and threatening their rear line.

Fearless is also a handicap.  Purifiers without an assault vehicle aren't going to make it into assault unless your opponent lets them get there, so if they're charged it's by something nastier than they are.  An interceptor squad breaking and running stands a fair chance of making it out of trouble due to their jump packs while Purifiers have to stand and die.  

In defense of strike squads- they hold objectives.  They're comparatively cheap and don't really run away too much while giving some cover fire.  They can also go to ground which is something purifiers can't do on account of being fearless.  Also because their purer-than-the-purest-pure souls would be soiled by contact with mud.  When the battlecannons are hammering your objective you'll be glad of an improved cover save. If you really need objective secure on a midfield objective they can also teleport, which purifiers can't do, though I'd rather have my terminators doing that.

Thanks Brother Sai for breakdown. This is exactly what I needed to read. Although, I've been playing 40K and Grey Knights for about 6 years, I feel like I'm just starting to understand what each unit brings to the table. I tend to run boring redundant lists and now I want to be adventurous in my gameplay.

I intend on purchasing another 15 PAGK bring my total number to 30. I suppose I'll build a 10-man squad of each:

Purifiers
Strike Squad
Interceptors

And (1) 5-man Purgation (magnetizing weaponry)

I assume this is diversified enough to add what I need to my current list.

Perhaps magnetize backpacks to add even more flex ability to your models.

Problem with interceptors is their price. For the same price of a 10 man squad you can take paladins, which are much better in every respect. interceptors have their teleportation going on them but after the shunt, the'll die as easily as any other marine. Sure they're good at appliying preasure to the opponent, but it's a one time affair. After that they'll disappear from the table.
As for your question brother Nineteen, I'd take a SS everyday. Cheap enough to field them in Rhinos or deploy them via Deep Strike; quite flexible, I'd say this equals even the flexibility of the Interceptors and their shunt move. With servo Skulls available, you can put them very near of where you want them. And they have Objective Secured all by themselves, which makes them a great unit in our codex.
Being normal marines I have them kitted out with only swords. Keep them cheap. That way if there's points to spare I can give them Psybolt ammo and a Rhino and not even reach the 300 pts cap. With hammerhand being now a +2 to S, they have the posibility to damage MCs and Vehicles with just the swords, and will shine at grinding through infantry.
All in all SS are great and perhaps only choice for troops in a pure GK army.

as our brothers pointed out. the different PAGK versions all have different purposes.

while Purifiers can get 4 special weapons only 1 really fits them and their use, the incinerator. due to their amount of attacks and psychic power you want to get them to the enemy as soon as possible. that means either beeing inside a transport or moving. in both cases the value of the psycannon and psilencer are both limited due to moving. and the incinerator... well he does have to get close in order to fire.
for purifiers to use the psycannon/psilencer to full effect you have to stand still, a case in which you could have bought a strike squad, which also got objective secured (which purifiers only get if you play crowe)

fearless. yes it does sound awesome but do you know whats better? and they shall know no fear. atsknf is one of the best special rules in the game and most xenos hate marines for it. it is a free, guaranteed regroup and that is not all. instead of having a 3" regroup and then counting as beeing moved only to be able to fire atsknf allows you instead of 3" regroup to normally move your unit, shoot normally and even assault! also you are immune to sweeping advance (which is fearless "aswell" but we get to the point soon)

you have to consider that it wont be always you who gets the charge aswell as sometimes fighting enemys you cannot damage or simply lose combat against. a fearless unit has trouble there until either the enemy or the purifiers are dead. a unit with atsknf can lose combat and if it fails it leadership and sweeping advance test it simply sticks into combat like a fearless unit. however. if you fail your morale test and pass the sweeping advance test you get out of combat and got a fully operational unit again that can move, shoot and even assault.

also there is a special rule that purifiers lack: deepstrike. strike squads and interceptors are both able to deepstrike.
deepstriking, especially with objective secured troops is awesome. suddenly appearing behind the enemy lines with fairly reliable deepstrike (servo skulls) and then holding one of his objectives can seriously throw down the opponents tactics.

deepstrike is also good for backing up and reinforcing.

I'm thinking about giving my Dragiowing some strike squad for troops increase.

I'll just build 10-man squad of Purifiers and place the in a Land Raider. The remaining models will be magnetized for utility squads.
Does anyone run a 5-man Prugation squad with four incinerators and a Rhino/Razorback?

I don't use Purgation squads but that could work as a point crammer and would be good against hoards with a assault cannon.

The most important thing to remember with interceptors is that they are normal jump infantry who also have a shunt move. Even moving 12" a turn, normally they're keeping pace with your armoured vehicles and still firing/ using cover. A 12" move with a 24" range is pretty good.

Being jump infantry doesn't make them assault infantry though- they have the manoeuvrability so they can pick and choose fights heavily weighted in their favour, not so they can get into close combat faster. Playing them like swooping Hawks, Warp Spiders or long range Seraphim will keep them alive longer.

When they do charge, remember their hammer of wrath attacks. Years for having my fantasy warhorses kill more orcs than the knights riding them has taught me to take bonus attacks where I can, no matter how weak.

I agree with the ATSKNF rulings mentioned earlier, fearless has its ups and downs especially when your caught in a fight you can't get out of. If your Purifiers get stuck in a tar pit of an opponent then they're stuck there until they win or lose!

That and being able to deep strike your troops in gives you more flexibility when dealing with defensive armies like Tau or Guard who have us pegged when it comes to ranged warfare.

Sai wrote:
When they do charge, remember their hammer of wrath attacks.  Years for having my fantasy warhorses kill more orcs than the knights riding them has taught me to take bonus attacks where I can, no matter how weak.

Just curious but what army did this? Since I'm to get back into fantasy.

Again, I appreciate the feedback. I'm reassessing my strategies and I'm even considering only building a 10-man Purifier squad (4 incinerators ) and have them employ a Land Raider. This way I can use them strictly as an elite unit and pass on the Crowe tax. My remaining 20-30 PAGK can be magnetized to fit the role of SS, Interceptors, or Purgation as needed.

Thunder Shark wrote:

Sai wrote:
When they do charge, remember their hammer of wrath attacks.  Years for having my fantasy warhorses kill more orcs than the knights riding them has taught me to take bonus attacks where I can, no matter how weak.

Just curious but what army did this? Since I'm to get back into fantasy.

some unit types got it

and ogres. almost every ogre

I was just talking about the warhorse attacks from my Silver Helms. But I do have an ogre army now. One day it might even be a painted ogre army.

Good luck on your ogres.

If all else fails I have a Forge World War Mammoth to help out