Fluff Complaints

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Fluff Complaints

Post by Thunder Shark on Sun Jun 29, 2014 6:46 am

Is there anything you you hate in the fluff? Find something over the top or silly perhaps? Than this is the place for you to grab (whatever Grey Knight's drink) what you hate.


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Re: Fluff Complaints

Post by Klomster on Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:32 am

If you'd really wan't it i could start one of my rants, but right now i don't feel like it.

Perhaps later.

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Re: Fluff Complaints

Post by Souba on Sun Jun 29, 2014 12:21 pm

considering what klomster complained so far about the fluff he is pretty similar to my complains, i think:

-they changed GK to be just another special snowflake space marine order that follows the index astartes.
before we had multiple thousands of GK scattered across the whole galaxy because the threat was everywhere. many units acted independently.

-childish written fluff. you got GK which are uncorruptible then come purifier that are even more uncorruptible (as if this would be even possbile) and last but not least there is crowe who is the uncorruptible, uncoruptible, uncoruptible that is so awesome (redicilous) that he even wields a daemon sword because it cannot be contained otherwise.
just to clarify. they are able to imprison a mighty daemon (iremn'ath) that caused some of the biggest casualitys amongst the grey knights inside his own head and put him up as a trophy. yet they are not able to contain a daemon weapon with similar results?

-GK have been mostly emotionless because the chaos gods get attracted through emotion. ontop of that, they have been puritans all the way. if even a slight taint was there, they would have eradicated it. even inquisitors with daemonhosts would get in trouble there. now they dont care that much anymore, even wielding daemon weapons themselves. and for every major victory they celebrate infront of a imprisoned daemon.

-and last but not least: Draigo... i dont know where to start on this one, his "fluff" is redicilous.
a friend of mine recently really put some shocker for me there. he is just a cartoon character renamed and put into the codex. even the story is similar:



replace aku with m'kar, replace future with warp. now you got the story of draigo.



there is much, much more... maybe klomster catches up to it.

its pretty funny, when it was still codex: daemonhunters i played exclusively grey knights. now with codex grey knights i play almost exclusivly inquisition because the appeal i had to this army has been turned upside down.

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Re: Fluff Complaints

Post by Sai on Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:49 am

Samurai Jack is an excellent cartoon- some of the music and imagery in various episodes is amazing.
The one where he fights alongside future-Spartans against a robot horde is quite memorable, as is anything with The Scotsman (who has a machine gun for a leg and a terrifying wife).  The one where he tries different shoes after his own break, and each pair has a theme tune was interesting as was the rave. But I think the best was where he was turned into a chicken and entered into pit fights.  

Failing that, this is pretty cool

:

My issues with the background fix on how badly written it is in places.
This in turn leads people to misunderstand it because it's so god-awful to read. I'm tired of trying to convince people that the terminators are no more experienced than power armoured knights.

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Re: Fluff Complaints

Post by Klomster on Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:38 pm

*crackles fingers (literally)*

So people want rant? They shall have rant!

Let's start with grey knights. Fluff.

By giving more depth to titan in the form of different sites and areas gw had the potential to add and create awesome background and depth. Instead we got.....

...space wolf silver ultramarines that has a magic telephone similar to cartoon superhero phones with a single quickcall button at the mayors office, with internal spite within the chapter and stupid weaponry wielded by even more stupid super-suits and ridiculus so called "heroes" with questionable feats at best and with deamons running rampant within thair halls.

Ok the deamon bit might be overstated, but the rest is not.

The moment i read about the feast hall i just thought "No, this is NOT space wolves."
But alas, the grey knights apparently hold great feasts with the entire chapter gathered?

In codex daemonhunters, (which is superior concerning fluff and layout) the halls was empty. The holy knights to busy to set foot within the fortress monestary since they must fight the multitude of threats opposing the imperium.

Now they just sit within the halls of titan and Oh oh!
The mayo..... the INQUISITOR is calling!

*Catchy scene change theme.*

-"Grey knights, an army of deamons are attacking one of the worlds of the EMPRAH!! You must save them!"

OH NO!

A grand master stands up and clenches his fist.
-"Greay knights....... ASSEMBLE!!!"

And the grey knights board their super awesome ships of speedness and save the subjects of the emprah.

-"Good job grey knights! You saved us again!" The mayo.... inquisitor say.

-"Grey knights, you did well! LET'S FEAST!" The grand master utter.

-"That's our grand master! Very Happy" Crowe say while suddenly entering view.

*Everyone laughs, even the mayor.*

That's basically what we've got now. Plus there is a bunch of dreadknights standing in the feast hall as well.
We also have a deamon that sits in the feast hall, just chilling in the chandaliers.

The image is so silly, even when making grimdark versions of the events. I mean, the grey knights CAN'T move out from titan at all times. They need to be spread out. And led primarily by its justicars and brother captains.
A strike force is rarely assembled, and an entire "company" assembled is a very big gathering of knights.

But no. Now the company is the standard way.

What? A single deamon is entering peoples minds in a remote feral world? Let's send an entire company of grey knights!
It's not like sending a strike squad is more fitting.

That's the reason why grey knights have so many commanders, so that there can always be a commander at the site of the grey knight force.

A company structure is silly for the grey knights, and that suddenly two thirds of the grey knights suddenly disappeared is not that strange since they probably saw the codex and fled into exile.

Paladins seem pointless.
-"This here is a more powerful grey knight terminator."
-"What? So it's a brother captain? Or grand master?"
-"Nope, he's just a better GKT."
-"????"

Where did they even come from?
Well, it's nothing compared to the rotting pile of nurgle ooze that is the hated and most vile PURIFIERS.
I hate purifiers.
They managed to make me hate psychicly burning grey knights...... FRIKKIN BURNING GREY KNIGHTS!!!
That should be like the epitome of awesome!? But no.

They make them extra pure, and that they see themselves as better than the other grey knights....????!??!?

What? Better than the terminators? How?
They are more pure.

Than the veteran warriors whom have proven themselves again and again over countless battles with deamons?
Obviously the purifiers whom are prideful crazies on fire are more pure, it's in their name after all!  (HERP DERP!!)

*Going insane. Irl.*

Since PRIDE is not at all candy for deamonic possesion. Nope, pride is good for everyone. Just look at all the proud primarchs.

Yup, most died, and the rest are deamons.
Recipe for ultra pure right there.

And let's not forget the flame falcons.
A chapter of marines WIPED OUT since they for some strange reason started burning.
They were still emperor loyal. And the GREY KNIGHTS wiped them out.

And the worst thing is that it was so easy to make good fluff instead.

Example:
'Purifiers are librarian acolytes whom have shown an increased aptitude for psychic potential. Therefore they are brought together so that they can practice their skills among equals.
When a purifier shows enough potential, he is promoted to full librarian. Until then they fight with their fellow purifier brethren.'

Done.
Not hard. Much better, and they are burning grey knights!!
Win.

And then we have the dreadknights.
What's wrong with them?
Let's start with their very existance. Dreadknights have been created to fight foes to great for regular grey knights to go toe-to-toe with? Correct?
Like bloodthirsters. Yeah we need a super elite warrior to take it down. That is a given.

This one is even a super bloodthirster with a blood flail. That's a flail with 8 other bloodthirsters attached to it.
Oh no, how will we fight it.

By sending in what is supposed to fight it idiots. Not some large stupid baby carriage robot suit.
But a grand master. Namely a powerful psyker.
The frikkin reason grey knights are psykers to begin with. To fight superior foes and still stand a chance. Plus psykers are able to sense their presense and more effectively ward of deamons if properly trained.

A big silly suit is stupid.
And how it is described makes me even more mad, and amused at the same time.
The suit is described as so complicated and strenous to control it seems ridiculous. It sounds like only super awesome strong willed knights can use it.
Yet, next to them we have the princeps.
Who drives frikkin TITANS.
Princepes must be crazy more awesome than i already knew they were. I mean, they are more mentally strong than grey knights apparently.

Or the creator of the dreadknights SUCKS.
As in within the world. If it is that hard to control, yet much larger and more complex machines are easy to control in comparrison. Something is amiss.

And the random forge world that makes their weapons? Dafuq?
And they aren't even described as from the psyker branch of the mechanicum. So if they aren't psykers how tha heck are they going to psychically attune force weapons to people?
Espescially if they aren't even there?
In the fluff they know nothing of what they are doing. That's silly.
They are mechanicus, they can find out. And the inquisition can do nothing about it but smile and nod since they need the superior and specialized weaponry.

And then we have the grand heroes of the grey knights. Or silver smurf puppies which is a much more befitting name.
Their chapter master.
The grey knight chapter master.
Just let that sink in for a moment. In codex daemonhunters the grey knights actions was decided by a counsil of grand masters and important inquisitors. Within this counsil every individual was very powerful and could act on their own. It was only larger actions that ever needed a gathering.
When the grey knights are governed by a counsil, they don't need a chapter master. Since the title is redundant (see grey knights need to be spread out).

But it is an "honorary" title. Since he is so awesome!

So the title of supreme grand master is not enough? No he needs to officially be the single leader of the grey knights. Which is an organization that impossibly can be organized by a single individual. Especially when that individual is trapped within the warp........

Stupid.

Plus. Fun fact.
What is a deamon?
*Catchy talk show music*

A deamon is an entity living in the warp, which enters real-space under certain circumstances and that is strongly bonded with a warp entity.

Draigo is living in the warp, enters real-space under certain circumstances and is strongly bonded with the emperor.
Deamon.

*Ding ding, +10 points.*

Also.
He takes the titan sword (which is some haphazardly invented item with no apparent powers except being awesome) which breaks, and then he literally takes a bloodthirsters axe and "uses his psychic powers to cleanse the weapon" from warp taint. And then reforges the blade.........

FANFICTION!!!! BAD FANFICTION!!!!! It is on the same level as bad twilight fanfiction sentence building. Where the main character (which is often the writer of the fiction, i think this is the case with the GK codex) always is more better and awesome than the actual main character of the story.
Or if there is no main character (like in codex GK) there now is a main character. And he is the bestest and most handsome and awesome and can do anything.

Not to mention the feats he does in the warp.
Burning down half of nurgles forest?
No.

A poorly imagined and realised character can not do that. Especially as a footnote in a larger sentence.
Which is exactly how it is written.
He just do this and that, and that happens. Really boring descriptions, which in turn makes the entire story boring. Add in over the top and ridiculous stuff that is supposed to be taken seriously it becomes painful to read.

Speaking of poorly realised characters.
Captain Crowe!
He is so boring there is no end to it. Wow, so he is extra pure? Tell me more of how extra pure he is? I am so intrigued by this deep character.
He can wield a deamon weapon i've never heard of? Wow, and without being corrupted? It must be because he is extra pure right? Right  lol! .
Wow i'm really liking this character...... NOT!!!

And he is a champion.
We have this weapon that needs to be kept safe from the enemies of the imperium? Check.
We can't lock it up since strange events happen which eventually set it free. Unless it is constantly moved? Check.
It is super dangerous? Yup.
Let's chain it to a crazy glory-hogging champion which in the game act as homing missiles which die so a dangerous foe can be destroyed. Perfecting the art of giving the weapon to the enemy.

I mean come on! Grey knight champions is a silly idea to begin with, now this one has an important deamon weapon that cannot get into the hands of the enemy.
Why is he not among the grey knight commanders. Or with a carefully selected bodyguard and on a constant pilgrimage fighting the lesser deamonic manifestations that require only a few knights?
It's not like a feisty super weapon could lure out the deamon so the knights could fight it. Nooo, that's silly.

Let's chain it to a living missile and throw it to the enemy instead. Sounds like a better solution.


I HATE CROWE!
AND HE'S A PURIFIER!!!! Evil or Very Mad 

Apart from that, there isn't much...... oh........ wait.

Jokaero.
Sure, they are an old thing from second edition. Nice.
I can respect that. It's silly but has some charming fluff. I'll allow it.

I do not allow sending the only source of digital weapons out with random inquisitors, among other forces so the secret Jokaero is fully visible, sen them out into WARZONES.
Because when you care for something, something gives you a resource you value. Let's compare it to a plant that produces your favorite fruit that is very rare.
Wouldn't you immidiately take that plant, go out on the frikkin AUTOBAHN and dance around it?

And that is probably more safe than what the inquisitors are doing with the Jokaero.

Silly, stupid, take it away.

That makes me done with grey knight fluff.


But there is more unforgivable fluff choices that gw makes, hohoho there is little end to it.
Like in the dark eldar codex.
Did you know that the fall of the eldar was for less than 10'000 years ago?

Whaaaaat? So it doesn't make sense that the great crusade happened while the FRIKKIN UNSPOILED, top condidtion ELDAR EMPIRE was around?
Naeeee, the Eldar didn't care for their empire anyway. It wasn't like it was most of the galaxy or anything.

And the great crusade just popped along and took over things, while the eldar carefully left every world so that the humans could take them.
NO!

How about tyranids?
They are big baddie. Yup, we've seen that.

Take one hive-fleet. Not a splinter fleet, but the main tendril of a really big one.

1) Send it to fight against orks. The orks shoot the entire fleet down over a planet.
2) Massive battles happen on the planet with tyranids vs orks.
3) The tyranids win, harness the biomass of the planet and rebuilds THE ENTIRE TENDRIL! In record time aswell.

If tyranids could make so much from a single planet, the entire galaxy would have been devoured a long time ago.
And you might go "but the ships rained down blah blah.."
Why would they rain down? They are fighting an ork fleet, they are not going towards the planet. Even 40k physics are somewhat grounded in the real world.

At least it was. Until WHEEEEEE, FREE HIVE FLEETS!
But only one.

 Suspect ?.....

Or the biggest pet peeve of mine.
Necrons.

Necrons were a barely sentient raze of destroyer machines. A raze so hell bent on serving their gods unsatiable hunger, and their own hatred for life so they will go so far as to destroy all life.
They were a true slumbering evil. Strange and alien. Really nicely done.
And for those that claim they had no personality, shut up. They had more fluff and personality than now. They were their own thing.

Now they are....... space tomb kings.
Woho. Neutral 

They removed the C'tan.
People don't get what this means.

Necrons without the C'tan has no meaning to exist, they are slaves to the C'tan and have lost almost all their own free will. Since every time they die more and more of their old self is lost forever.
That's why lords have some semblance of personality left.

Now they just seem to be like -"Humpty dumpty, we are the necrons of Piss'in'a'hole. We are going to have infighting now."

What?
So they went from being a looming evil unknown to be some sort of scattered mess of singular worlds that act out rivalries against each other?
Some even trade with the imperium, or others.

WHAT!
Why does this so called "race" even exist anymore.
With this kind of secrecy or greater control, as in no secrecy and no greater control, like it had with the C'tan.
This way, a single crusade of imperial guards with some navy could wipe out ALL necrons.

Not even hard.

In the olden days, they had the C'tan to control them.
One is called the deceiver, is there a possibility that he could conduct secret operations with highly advanced killer robots with strange technology?
I think there was.

Now they just take their ship, go into the warp and travel around.

Lol, we go around and Necron, Wheeeee.

In the old fluff the warp was the bane of the C'tan, and by that the necrons.
They had a mystical form of transportation no one understands.
The very reason psychic blunts exist is because of the C'tan.

Pariah, created by the necrons to destroy the accursed warp.

Now the Pariah isn't even mentioned in the codex. And if it is it doesn't matter anyway.

Since the C'tan are dead.

All of them.

Even...... the void dragon.
And that means, a huge part of the mechanicus fluff is....... void.

The horus heresy, books produced as CANON, mechanicum doesn't work. The secret of the noctis labyrinth wasn't there. Half the book was actually hallucinations by the main characters.
And i'm not talking of some random crap here.
This is CORE fluff of the entire setting, stuff that 40k can't stand up without.

So when did the void dragon die? Before the great crusade?
So the emperor beat nothing and imprisoned it on mars? After the crusade?
How did the necrons kill it?
A C'tan is not something you just decide to kill. Take your laspistol and ZAP, dead.
No. You need large resources to kill one.

Or be the laughing god.
Which probably doesn't exist anymore.

The necrons would need to get unto Mars. MARS.
The home of the adeptus mechanicus, the home of the ordo titanicus, the home of fleet Solar.
You are not getting there. Not with the required resources.

-"But meh, a single necron frigate got there without being stopped"

That is correct, and it later left doing some mysterious deed.

But it was NOT killing the void dragon. I refuse to accept that something fitting inside a puny necron frigate could even hope to harm the void dragon. Let alone kill it.

And this is why the necrons are such an unforgiveable sin to me.
GW, is messing with the adeptus mechanicus.
NO ONE, messes with the adeptus mechanicus. The only thing still pure, still unravaged by this ooze of monetization and fluff de-materialisation that gw is going for.

They are taking EVERYTHING and ruining it.
Wow, the space marines got a new unit? And it's awesome in the game?
And the fluff? What a load of bull!
Every thing they manage to create awful fluff for, or ruin good fluff.

Some people say that i just don't like change.
That's true, i like things to be like they always was. That's because i have a form of Autism, i dislike things suddenly changing. I like things in my own sense of order and i tend to be very distracted in mind and action.

But change in its core nature is not good or bad. I can be all for change.
Several times i've gone from one way of doing things to another way in SECONDS, and never done the previous again.
Since i was shown it was a superior option. And thus, good change.

People nowdays always cheer when things change. Yay, they changed the 40k fluff! YAY!
Now it's better!

No.
Change for the sake of change is bad change. If you change how something works just for the reason of changing it. It most probably will get worse.

Real life example.
There is a hospital in my city.
The doctors had secretaries. And people thought, why do the doctors have secretaries? They just cost money for their salaries?
So the secretaries were fired.
And the doctors now suddenly had to report everything themselves. With the computers. (As an addon, i think the entire computer system changed as well.)

The thing is many of these very profficient doctors were kinda old.
Good doctors, horrible at computers.
In the end, the slowdown of service, was magnified several times, fewer and fewer got to see a doctor. And the doctors got more exhausted with a workload they are not used to, nor educated to perform. Plus a second person used to do this service, so it can't be just a little writing that needs to be done.

In the end, slowdowns, extra schooling and other unforseen effects made this change cost MORE than just paying the salaries of the secretaries.
Plus many workplaces was lost, adding to the unemployment problem.

Change is not bad. But usually, since there is no reasoning to it.
IT IS!

So when i say i don't like change, there is a very solid reason to it beside my natural dislike for change.

It's easy to start believing that all change is bad when your belief is always proven correct.
A disappearingly small number shows otherwise, but when all the other change is bad it will just be seen as the freak occasion that confirms the rule.


I've ranted a lot now.
Whew, my hands and back hurts, and i got kinda mad there for a while.

But now all the better Very Happy
Nice to rant from time to time, it's good for your health to get it out of your system!

Cheers! cheers

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Re: Fluff Complaints

Post by Lanzlo on Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:15 pm

Meh, looks like Tzeench has infiltrated GW Headquarters, trying to take down the one enemy that can stand against the combined Ruinous Powers.

So, anyone want to start an Indigogo campaign to buy out 51% of GW stock?  Twisted Evil 

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Re: Fluff Complaints

Post by Thunder Shark on Tue Jul 08, 2014 6:33 am

Might be a good idea once they are more affordable.

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Re: Fluff Complaints

Post by Klomster on Tue Jul 08, 2014 6:31 pm

Buy out gw. Interesting idea....

Too bad i have never touched the business world. And probably suck something copious at it.

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Re: Fluff Complaints

Post by Thunder Shark on Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:58 am

Honestly if it did go bankrupt I would not feel sorry for it.

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Re: Fluff Complaints

Post by Corennus on Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:24 am

rant:

ok here we go.

Grey Knights are meant to be the best of the best, but their armour is standard Space Marine with a save against psykers.
They're meant to be much stronger mentally than any space marine (and one would have thought tougher since their training is much stricter), but is this shown in the stats? no. you'd have thought their leadership would be higher and initiative higher (based on the novel Black Sky, Dead Sun and the fact Kaldor Draigo went toe to toe with a DAEMON PRIMARCH and won).

But my biggest rant is about the fact that at the end of the day Grey Knights are written as a Space Marine codex with a few little bits here and there to make them a little different.

For example.
Back when Grey Knights came out they featured the Stormraven. Only Blood Angels (the codex lavished with THE MOST OUTRAGEOUS AMOUNT OF COOL STUFF), had the Stormraven. Now ANY army can have a stormraven.

Dreadknights. These caused a hell of an excitement when they came out. WOW! a monstrous creature of our own! and it's arguably the best monstrous creature out there!
Now you have Space Marines fielding Centurions and Eldar have Wraithknights, and Tau have Riptides......

I realise of course that Gk is fast becoming an old codex. but what GK need is to be elevated far above the Space Marines around them. One Grey Knight should be the equivalent of 2 space marines. If you truly want to show them as a small elite army.

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Re: Fluff Complaints

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