1750 Paladin Death Star

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1750 Paladin Death Star

Post by DonFer on Fri Mar 08, 2013 7:14 am

Hi all, back for some advice on a list I plan to take to a local tournament next month. I based this list on a list I saw the other day in the forums and actually liked the idea of it. So here goes nothing:

Coteaz
GM+Psycannon

10x Paladin Squad
4xPsycannon
1x Nemesis Warding Stave
Various weapon loadouts (I'm gessing 4 swords, 4 halberds, 2 NDH)
Psyboltammo

3x Warrior Acolytes
3x Plasmagun
Chimera (Heavy Bolter + Heavy Bolter)

3x Warrior Acolytes
3x Plasmagun
Chimera (Heavy Bolter + Heavy Bolter)

3x Warrior Acolytes
3x Storm Bolter
Razorback, Psybolt Ammo

3x Warrior Acolytes
3x Storm Bolter
Razorback, Psybolt Ammo

3x Warrior Acolytes
3x Hot Shot Lasgun
Razorback, Psybolt Ammo

3x Warrior Acolytes
3x Hot Shot Lasgun
Razorback, Psybolt Ammo

Dreadnought
TL Autocannon+TL Autocannon
Psyboltammo

Dreadnought
TL Autocannon+TL Autocannon
Psyboltammo

1750 on the spot. So the idea is to have Coteaz, and GM go with the paladin deathstar. Prescience with 5 psycannons is just insane, even flyers fold to it. This means the death star will be Undesirable Numero Uno, so my opponents will focus fire on it as soon as they can roll dice. Hence I have my Mech Wall to provide covering fire and fire support to my death star. I included 2 chimeras to add surbivality to my RBs AV12 is better than 11 and I only need 25% cover to get that 5+ cover save. So Chimeras on the front RBs in the back. Dreads are my main ati-air, but I reckon by focusing on my opponent's ground units and maintain mobility, flyers will have a hard job killing my force (not impossible but I plan on not giving them an easy time).

So, I welcome any crtisism, comment, advice, etc. Cheers!

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Re: 1750 Paladin Death Star

Post by DOMIN4TRIX on Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:29 am

I think the problems you face are those inherent to Palladins and henchmen usually...

One large S8 blast will ruin your day - Vindicators, Doomsday Arcs, Leman Russ variants, Manticores and I'm sure a whole host of other stuff can end your game in one shot.

You will have 5 relentless psycannons with prescience but will have to fire all at the same target meaning overkill.

24" range of the Palladins can be expoited.

Plasma on a 3 man squad means your chances of melting your face and failing a Ld test in your own turn are quite high.

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Re: 1750 Paladin Death Star

Post by DonFer on Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:18 pm

I think one can work around a S8-10 blast with careful positioning, if the Death Star is walking in a big blob formation then you're doing it wrong.

5 relentless psycannons is what I aim for, I am not looking to use them for multiple target shooting. The trick here is kill whatever unit I aim at in one round of shooting.

24" range is not correct, paladins have 36" inch range (max).

If I could give plasma to SS I would, but that's the reality for henchmen, hence thier cheap cost. Plasma for 14 points does that.

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Re: 1750 Paladin Death Star

Post by DOMIN4TRIX on Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:56 pm

Just a few considerations that's all - it's good to know your vulnerabilities:

Templates, range, low AP, mobility and instant death for the Palladins

Morale, get's hot and transport explosions for the henchmen.

I know this goes against the 'death star' concept of the list but have you considered 2 psycannon / prescience OMI's each with 5 Palladin's? 6 psycannon's that can fire at two different targets but you lose grand strategy and scoring henchmen as the trade-off.




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Re: 1750 Paladin Death Star

Post by first strike on Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:09 pm

I like the idea. Would look to have a bro banner in the palidins as at the points it gives back so many attacks and this it the only unit you have to go to hand to hand with. Cannot see the value of feel no pain at the cost in 6th. The accolites might find a benifit from a crusader to tank hits but the squads are small so this might not be the way to go. Will be trialing similar armies. Could look at droping one on the inquisitor units to gain more bodies in the other units

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Re: 1750 Paladin Death Star

Post by DonFer on Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:07 pm

I tried to squeeze a B-banner in there but I failed. I already lost one Dread (which is painful) for more scoring bodies. I should drop two henchmen squads and add the missing dread, if I want to squeeze the Banner. But then again i'd be loosing two scoring units,
I dunno what are your thoughts about only 4 scoring units? More bodies or more attacks?

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Re: 1750 Paladin Death Star

Post by Vecuu on Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:21 am

Don't forget that you can always combat squad the Paladins and the GM can make them two 10-wound, scoring Terminator squads.

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Re: 1750 Paladin Death Star

Post by first strike on Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:22 pm

I still think 5 would be the right number (not including grand strat, which the palidins are the only thing you can spend the ability on (found that one out the hard way)) but the 3 man squads need to be larger. You have a lot of heavy bolters in there and this is a good thing (ours are S6) Smile .
On the plasma squads would look to change one man in each to a melta (there is still some heavy armour out there) and just some more bodies would help as none of the scoring units are very strong, would not go much bigger then 6 or 7 men squads to help with vechi blow ups, as they will die in a stiff breaze to most things. Still like the crusader option.
The palidins will be drawing a lot of fire in the first couple of turns so scouting them up the board will be a good option (you want them drawing fire away from your weeker units so making them a big threat is the best way to do this and having them start an extra 6" forward is going to make people sit up and take notice). Would never deep strike or outflank them for this reason.

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Re: 1750 Paladin Death Star

Post by Rivan on Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:28 pm

first strike wrote:I still think 5 would be the right number (not including grand strat, which the palidins are the only thing you can spend the ability on (found that one out the hard way))

Grand strat can also be used on dreads right? Or did you mean that paladins are the only units worth using grand strat on w/ this list? scratch

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Re: 1750 Paladin Death Star

Post by volvoe on Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:26 am

I think he just forgot about the dreads lol

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Re: 1750 Paladin Death Star

Post by first strike on Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:49 pm

Yes, forgot the dreads. Embarassed

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Re: 1750 Paladin Death Star

Post by DonFer on Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:47 pm

Ok thanks FS!

Had my first game against Tyranids this weekend. My opponent had lots of MCs and a flying MC to boot. Termagants and Hormagants and deep striking Zoanthorpes. Oh and hive guards also!

Things I learned:

1. Missed the 3rd Dread. S8 shots are a must.
2. Chimeras are a mixed bag. BS3 is a pain and AV 10 on the sides is rather pathetic, but 6 S5 shots are nothing to laugh at. The ability to shoot at a different target with the passengers is also great. Killed several monsters this way.
3. Paladins are the fire magnet I expected. I deployed them on the table and took a lot of damage. but survived in the end. Perhaps against other opponents scouting as FS suggested is the best option. But if shooting at the Paladin suqad means my army is able to depoloy and pick specific targets it's good enough for me.

I'll make some modifications to the army, namely drop both Chimeras and one Acolyte squad. i'll try to squeeze one additional dread and some more accolytes in the rest of the squads.

Thanks for your input brothers!

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Re: 1750 Paladin Death Star

Post by Aubec le noir on Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:07 pm

And beyond what you learned... What was the result brother ?
Win, loss or draw ? scratch
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Re: 1750 Paladin Death Star

Post by first strike on Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:17 pm

Yep you dont want to be colser to the nids, they will come to you. I bet you missed the banner with all those M.C's about and having to roll 3d6 to insta kill them.

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Re: 1750 Paladin Death Star

Post by DonFer on Tue Mar 12, 2013 6:58 am

Razz woops, sorry about that. I'm really a bad battle-reporter.

I won, 5-1 in victory points. In the end I had 2 hotshot Acolyte Units, one Storm Bolter Acolyte Unit, one Plasma Acolyte unit on a Chimera and 8 Paladins, GM and Coteaz alive. He had 1 Tervigon, one flying MC, and one unit of termagants. Quite a killing.

As for the banner, I didn't miss it that much. The +1 attack is nice, but MC's don't have invul, and AP3 weapons is quite enough. The three assaults I was in with MC's I caused 1-3 wounds with swords/halberds, and the remaining 2-3 wounds with the daemonhammer. Prescience was top notch for assaulting also. When the MC hit back I was able to make all the saves, specially with the 4++ of the sword paladins and the 3++ of the GM. I also pulled the GM + warding stave combo once: wounds on the GM, LOS, 2++ save for AP2 wounds (not that I needed it but it was fun to see it work tongue )

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Re: 1750 Paladin Death Star

Post by DonFer on Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:01 am

Ok Brothers, back from the drawing room, I modified the original list with the things I learned last game. Here's the new list:

Coteaz
GM+Psycannon
MC-NFS*

10x Paladin Squad
4xPsycannon
1x Nemesis Warding Stave
Various weapon loadouts (I'm gessing 4 swords, 4 halberds, 2 NDH)
Psyboltammo

3x Warrior Acolytes
3x Plasmagun
Chimera (Heavy Bolter + Heavy Bolter)

3x Warrior Acolytes
3x Plasmagun
Chimera (Heavy Bolter + Heavy Bolter)

3x Warrior Acolytes
1xMeltagun
2x Storm Bolter
Razorback, Psybolt Ammo

3x Warrior Acolytes
1xMeltagun
2x Storm Bolter
Razorback, Psybolt Ammo

Dreadnought
TL Autocannon+TL Autocannon
Psyboltammo

Dreadnought
TL Autocannon+TL Autocannon
Psyboltammo

Dreadnought
TL Autocannon+TL Autocannon
Psyboltammo

*The list with out MCing the NFS on the GM is 1745, so I have 5 points to spare. Didn't find anything useful to use them in so I decided to MCing the weapon on one of my HQ's.

As you can see, I dropped 2 troops to give the list more serious shooting capabilities. I'm guessing depending on the game, I can GS my dreads, and if Havies can score I've got 3 more scoring bodies free of charge. Other than that I added one more dread because of fliers.

Your thoughts are most welcome!

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Re: 1750 Paladin Death Star

Post by first strike on Sat Mar 16, 2013 6:02 pm

Mc the sword +1
You could look at taking a Nem Dread Knight with teleport, incin and sword for the price of 2 ac dreads. This would give the army a different element with a fast mover and he would take some fire off the paladins.
Glad to see you did not drop the chimeras, you can use them to transport the palidins if you split them (they can hold 6 terminators each) and move them up the field quicker, shooting all the way.
As for flyers, if someone has 9 flyers (necron) then there is no list in the game that can deal with it (at the momnent).
5 twin linked psy cannons should take out a flyer a turn, an ac dread has a chance to get another one, but the dreads will be prim targets for any flyer list, and with the firepower the good ones bring then the dreads will not be around for more then a turn of shooting at them. If they only bring 1 or 2 (lets say Hell drakes or Storm Ravens) then the palidins will take care of them in 2 turns.

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Re: 1750 Paladin Death Star

Post by DonFer on Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:21 am

As this is a shooty list, I think the NDK is not "at home" in this list.

Other than that I think, that you 're right. The list poses multiple threats to flyers, light mech so this means hard calls for my opponent. i can pound his units with either the Palis or the Dreads. Though i rather preffer to keep the pallies alive as long as possible.

My strategy against multiple flyers is outmanouvering them, sort of an "in your face" strategy against my opponent. perhaps DS the pallies and flatting out my transports turn 1 while the Dreads provide covering fire.

I'll post a batrep once I try this variant.

Thanks for your thoughts!

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Re: 1750 Paladin Death Star

Post by first strike on Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:33 pm

Have been there, this will work to a degree unless you have a hammer and anvil game, my list was similar to yours and I was rendered combat ineffective in the 4th turn (had taken out 4 and damaged another 2), I did not have the palidins and was running small strike squads with razorback support. I hate necrons, but I hate G.W. more for letting them be what they are.

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Re: 1750 Paladin Death Star

Post by DonFer on Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:16 am

Played against Necrons and 6 Fliers. It was a carnage, and really 6 fliers is a pain in the butt. We played the relic, but it actually became anihilation. I ended up controlling the relic with one plasma acolyte. By the end of turn 5, all I had left was 2 Plasma Colytes, one Chimera and my GM and Coteaz. On the other side he got 2 5xWarrior squads and 2 fliers w/o weapons.

It's really hard to play against such lists, but mobility helped me a lot, though I ended up with my entire army on my opponet's deployement zone. outflanking also was useful, as well as perfect timing for Coteaz. On his side he almost gave me a heart attack by getting 5 out of 6 fliers on turn 2. In the end I won by 1 point.

Although it was a good game it gave the feeling that the list is lacking some needed firepower (2 extra RBs instead of a Dread) Perhaps I can actually add a NDK for alpha striking those AniBarges parked in the back of opponent's DZ.

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Re: 1750 Paladin Death Star

Post by first strike on Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:41 pm

The Relic is a pile in mission, so it does get the feel of just kill everything. I think you did well againt that list but it does get worse with necrons. Even at 1750 they can still bring 9 flyers (the one I faced was at 1850 with 9) and all of them bring a good amount of firepower. Congrats on the win, and yes mobility is the key to beating a necron flyer list (and firepower).

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Re: 1750 Paladin Death Star

Post by DonFer on Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:59 pm

Thanks FS! Yeah I know, Necrons are really hard to beat. I can imagine battling against 9 fliers.

List comming soon!

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Re: 1750 Paladin Death Star

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