Nemeses of the Grey Knights

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Nemeses of the Grey Knights

Post by Constantine on Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:02 pm

V'S

I really enjoyed the conversation in the thread about Draigo's chances against Abbadon.

I would like to know how other Grey knight Characters/Heros will hold up against their nemeses.
I welcome you to share your favorite match ups, but ask that you request their discussion through a PM to me so that the thread stays organized.
I am quite partial to Mordrak as many of you know, So I propose that we start with Mordrak v's Huron Black heart.

Let us consider two possible scenarios:

1. Mordrak v's Huron toe to toe
2. Mordrak and Ghost Knights v's Huron with equivilant retinue (Sorry don't know what that would be for Chaos)


Last edited by Constantine on Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:29 am; edited 3 times in total

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+++"There is nothing in the arcane and blasphemous arsenal of the forces of Chaos that can compare to faith. With the power of faith, our weapons become shining instruments of deliverance that can cleave the mightiest daemon in twain. With the power of faith, our minds appear as slivers of pure agony to the daemon, driving into the wretched forms of those who would dare stand before us. With the power of faith, our words become commands that cause the daemon to cower and cringe in terror. I could meet my enemies unarmed without a shred of fear in my chest, for I know that the Emperor watches over me and guides my hand. So let them come. We shall show them what the power of faith can do."+++ (Brother Captain Stern)

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Re: Nemeses of the Grey Knights

Post by Constantine on Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:30 am

Or not... Razz

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+++"There is nothing in the arcane and blasphemous arsenal of the forces of Chaos that can compare to faith. With the power of faith, our weapons become shining instruments of deliverance that can cleave the mightiest daemon in twain. With the power of faith, our minds appear as slivers of pure agony to the daemon, driving into the wretched forms of those who would dare stand before us. With the power of faith, our words become commands that cause the daemon to cower and cringe in terror. I could meet my enemies unarmed without a shred of fear in my chest, for I know that the Emperor watches over me and guides my hand. So let them come. We shall show them what the power of faith can do."+++ (Brother Captain Stern)

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Re: Nemeses of the Grey Knights

Post by Aubec le noir on Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:35 am

well ... I really don't know/understand what you're expecting in this post, brother... scratch
furthermore, i don't have fought Huron with Mordrak yet ... so i really don't know how things could have sorted out ... Wink
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Re: Nemeses of the Grey Knights

Post by Constantine on Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:09 am

I was hoping to have a thread for Brothers to talk about match ups between their favorite characters and enemies like in this thread:
http://greyknights.forumotion.com/t3514-draigo-vs-abaddon

I remember one Brother was talking about how his GM was a sword master and was hunting Lucius the eternal...

Does that clarify a little? Question

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+++"There is nothing in the arcane and blasphemous arsenal of the forces of Chaos that can compare to faith. With the power of faith, our weapons become shining instruments of deliverance that can cleave the mightiest daemon in twain. With the power of faith, our minds appear as slivers of pure agony to the daemon, driving into the wretched forms of those who would dare stand before us. With the power of faith, our words become commands that cause the daemon to cower and cringe in terror. I could meet my enemies unarmed without a shred of fear in my chest, for I know that the Emperor watches over me and guides my hand. So let them come. We shall show them what the power of faith can do."+++ (Brother Captain Stern)

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Re: Nemeses of the Grey Knights

Post by DOMIN4TRIX on Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:22 am

For those who are unfamiliar with the Chaos characters and so are unable to comment here is a usefull link.

http://www.3plusplus.net/2013/02/chaos-space-marines-review-part-3-named-hqs/

As I don't have the codex this is what I gather from the above.

Huron either attacks first at AP3 and has to deal with Mordrak's TDA or he fights simultaneously with his axe but would need 8 wounds statistically to penetrate the iron halo, he does wound on 2's though. Mordrak hits at I1 and has a 50% chance of of killing Huron outright with every wound (I believe Huron is T4 and not an eternal warrior), without even having to activate his hammer. Mordrak win in straight assault.

The reason Huron is so good maybe comes from the D3 units he allows to infiltrate / being a psyker / having a heavy flamer

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Re: Nemeses of the Grey Knights

Post by Aubec le noir on Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:37 am

ok i understand ... i'll see the stats of Lucius tonight and see what Aubec will do.
I'm sure he will gauge him... or not !? Razz Razz
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Re: Nemeses of the Grey Knights

Post by xFallenx on Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:59 am

Sorry, it sounds like it would be an interesting read(for my part) but to be honest I really have nothing to contribute as my 40K exp is exactly 5 months in the making and at this point have no idea who is who.

I know who the Emperor is as well as a split with Horus and his fall from grace. I know who Coteaz is and that the Grey Knight witch hunters are on the hunt for tainted blood throughout the galaxy regardless of whose body it pumps through. And that each leader within the witch hunters treats the others with almost as much disdain as they treat heretics, maybe even more so as the politics within keep them from purging one another (this is one of the many reasons I decided on the Grey Knights). Guess who's looking forward to the Reaper Kickstarter for the Sisters Repentia?

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Re: Nemeses of the Grey Knights

Post by Alladin the Paladin on Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:07 pm

This is all very interesting.... When I go about making my GM eventually, I'll have to put together a suitable backstory.

I figure with the green theme on my NFWs it would have something to do with Nurgle... I just need to do my 40k research and figure out the who's, the what's, and the how's...


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Re: Nemeses of the Grey Knights

Post by Constantine on Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:34 pm

DOMIN4TRIX wrote:For those who are unfamiliar with the Chaos characters and so are unable to comment here is a usefull link.

http://www.3plusplus.net/2013/02/chaos-space-marines-review-part-3-named-hqs/

As I don't have the codex this is what I gather from the above.

Huron either attacks first at AP3 and has to deal with Mordrak's TDA or he fights simultaneously with his axe but would need 8 wounds statistically to penetrate the iron halo, he does wound on 2's though. Mordrak hits at I1 and has a 50% chance of of killing Huron outright with every wound (I believe Huron is T4 and not an eternal warrior), without even having to activate his hammer. Mordrak win in straight assault.

The reason Huron is so good maybe comes from the D3 units he allows to infiltrate / being a psyker / having a heavy flamer

Great link and reflections Brother D, Thank you

I appologize for not explaining the purpose of my thread more clearly Embarassed
It appears from what Brother D has shared that Mordrak can definitely hold his own in this confrontation if not squish (Literally) Huron. Makes you wonder how Mordrak's fluff was developed really scratch Damn Chaos and their Triksy ways! Mad

I am wondering if any of you who are more mathematically inclined would like to shed a little light on this discussion and share some statistical probabilities in regards to this confrontation.

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+++"There is nothing in the arcane and blasphemous arsenal of the forces of Chaos that can compare to faith. With the power of faith, our weapons become shining instruments of deliverance that can cleave the mightiest daemon in twain. With the power of faith, our minds appear as slivers of pure agony to the daemon, driving into the wretched forms of those who would dare stand before us. With the power of faith, our words become commands that cause the daemon to cower and cringe in terror. I could meet my enemies unarmed without a shred of fear in my chest, for I know that the Emperor watches over me and guides my hand. So let them come. We shall show them what the power of faith can do."+++ (Brother Captain Stern)

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Re: Nemeses of the Grey Knights

Post by DOMIN4TRIX on Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:31 am

Actually I may have been wrong - Huron is a psyker and as such probably has a force weapon (would need to see his wargear) If this is the case then could insta-kill Mordrak by attacking first.

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Re: Nemeses of the Grey Knights

Post by Tiberius on Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:58 am

DOMIN4TRIX wrote:Actually I may have been wrong - Huron is a psyker and as such probably has a force weapon (would need to see his wargear) If this is the case then could insta-kill Mordrak by attacking first.

Actually, he doesn't carry a force weapon. The tyrant's claw is a powerfist iirc, so they'd both smack each other to death simultaneously unless Huron wants to have a go with his power axe instead, being inferior with only 2+ str. and ap3. Hence, the instant death happens on equal terms Razz

Source:
http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2013/01/17/its-like-tactics-huron-blackheart-review/huron-rules-2012/

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Re: Nemeses of the Grey Knights

Post by slayer18 on Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:42 am

What kind of saves does Huron have? That may make a difference. That and can infiltrators still outflank? If they can then Huron and crew can out maneuver Mordak otherwise Mordak catches him no matter where he infiltrates.

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Re: Nemeses of the Grey Knights

Post by Constantine on Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:45 am

Hmmmm...... Well then, that is a little different isn't it. So it would come down to luck of the dice in the toe to toe scenario?
Just a thought, would ghost knights be included in the toe to toe battle? They have been waiting very patiently Wink

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+++"There is nothing in the arcane and blasphemous arsenal of the forces of Chaos that can compare to faith. With the power of faith, our weapons become shining instruments of deliverance that can cleave the mightiest daemon in twain. With the power of faith, our minds appear as slivers of pure agony to the daemon, driving into the wretched forms of those who would dare stand before us. With the power of faith, our words become commands that cause the daemon to cower and cringe in terror. I could meet my enemies unarmed without a shred of fear in my chest, for I know that the Emperor watches over me and guides my hand. So let them come. We shall show them what the power of faith can do."+++ (Brother Captain Stern)

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Re: Nemeses of the Grey Knights

Post by DOMIN4TRIX on Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:13 am

Thanks Tiberius - I was just idly speculating

I guess if Mordrak is called out by Huron then the Ghostknights would be redundant and if he falls they would vanish. A 6 model instant kill

I feel that with Mordrak you pay a heavy price for a perfect DS - no psycannon - no justicar to take a challenge - no eternal warrior

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Re: Nemeses of the Grey Knights

Post by Aubec le noir on Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:21 am

V'S
ok i learned my lesson :
Lucius is a named character with some good stats and special rules :
stats (not all just the ones different than the GKGM's ones)
CC7 1 point more than the GM who possess 1 point more in WS, same S,T, W, WP and attacks even though one of the special rules of Lucius in duel gives him a number of attacks equal to his opponent CC ... that's awesome to say the least !! affraid affraid
the more problematic stat of Lucius is his init : 6
He has Hatred (SM) but he is marked (Slaanesh mark) so if i'm not mystaken, he is considered as a Deamon for us ... so a GM has Hatred too... equality.
He has a 3+/5++ and everytime a save is made with this armour, the opponent gets a S4 AP2 wound (with covert) in his face... this one shouldn't be a big deal with his 5++. Razz
another big problem is his lash : -1 att for the opponent and every attack Lucius makes has the Laceration rule (don't know exactly what it makes but... Suspect )
finally He's fearless but not a Psyker.

so one on one :

Against an unnamed GM : best way to gear him is with Halberd... his TDA is better than Lucius armour... the problem is the Duel : Lucius will have 6 attacks at init 6 though our GM will have 2 but with greater chance to kill Lucius because he isn't eternal warrior, and GM possess iron fist...

Against a Brotherhood Champion, Lucius isn't auto-winning... imho it's the Champ that wins : with his 1D3 attacks init 10 and same cc that Lucius, and better save 2+/4+ ( i always thought that the Champ was very underestimated).

Against Draigo i think Lucius get crushed even if he strikes first and Draigo only gets 3 att

Against Crowe : nearly same as Champ : ok it's not a power or force weapon, but with rending 4+... nearly the same

Against Stern : Stern wins because of his banishment zone and best gear

Against Mordrak ... i think Lucius should finally win, because of the init 1 of the Hammer... but if Mordrak saves a lot of CC7 attacks, 1 strike should be enough to strike back Lucius right up to the Eye of Terror ! Twisted Evil

and finally against Aubec le noir (it my primary interest after all ! Razz )
Rulewise :
Aubec's Gear : Psycannon, NFS, 2+/3++, shoots better 4 S7 rending shots/ against an assault 1 F5 AP3 shot, strikes after Lucius and loose 1 attack, but strikes harder (iron fist) and can kill him at once ... so pronostic 50/50
Fluffwise :
As you know it GK's names possess some power against some deamons... it's not describe in the rules but we have a small text p6 of our codex. SO i decided that the name "Aubec" has some power against Slaaneeshi servitors and especially against Lucius (my universe, my decision ! Razz Razz )
in fact, all the GM of my brotherhood gets the same name Aubec le noir, because they all carry the memories and personality of all their predecessors up to the first one a Duellist and monster tracker called (as you can guess Razz ) Aubec de Terrenoire de Casteljaloux aka Aubec le noir : so he's fearless (i deeply regret that rule of our ancient codex ! Twisted Evil )
and in his backstory, his background, Aubec was formed to be a duellist to destroy Lucius one and for all..., gets a CC 7 and just as Crowe, was a Champ before being designed GM... so fluffwise, as a named Character... Aubec should win !! Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
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Last edited by Aubec le noir on Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:35 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Nemeses of the Grey Knights

Post by DOMIN4TRIX on Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:34 am

Aubec de Terrenoire de Casteljaloux

Love it!

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Re: Nemeses of the Grey Knights

Post by Aubec le noir on Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:36 am

Thanks ! cheers
This name has a Looonng story indeed !! Twisted Evil
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Re: Nemeses of the Grey Knights

Post by DOMIN4TRIX on Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:18 am

Perfect timing from Forgeworld - Luna Wolves vs Sons of Horus - we know who won this one

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/New_Stuff/ABADDON_AND_LOKEN.html

Power armour, bolt pistol and chainsword, did he ever stand a chance?

Love the Abaddon model

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Re: Nemeses of the Grey Knights

Post by Constantine on Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:26 am

Please remember to PM me to start a new "Nemesis discussion" so that I can keep things organized and coherent.

I have added pictures to help separate the discussions Very Happy

Aubec le noir wrote:
Against Mordrak ... i think Lucius should finally win, because of the init 1 of the Hammer... but if Mordrak saves a lot of CC7 attacks, 1 strike should be enough to strike back Lucius right up to the Eye of Terror ! Twisted Evil

Sad

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+++"There is nothing in the arcane and blasphemous arsenal of the forces of Chaos that can compare to faith. With the power of faith, our weapons become shining instruments of deliverance that can cleave the mightiest daemon in twain. With the power of faith, our minds appear as slivers of pure agony to the daemon, driving into the wretched forms of those who would dare stand before us. With the power of faith, our words become commands that cause the daemon to cower and cringe in terror. I could meet my enemies unarmed without a shred of fear in my chest, for I know that the Emperor watches over me and guides my hand. So let them come. We shall show them what the power of faith can do."+++ (Brother Captain Stern)

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Re: Nemeses of the Grey Knights

Post by Alladin the Paladin on Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:47 pm

The Lexicanum Wiki is another good source of fluff inspiration on CSM... It has a good listing of traitor legions and offshoots that you can build a story around.... Of course few named characters (and fewer with stat lines) but still cool if you want to give your force a backstory and stick to 40k canon.

Considering most of the good villains are apparently spoken for on this board..... *cough*AubecandConstantine*cough* Mad we need more sources of creativity. Smile

40k.lexicanum.com

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Re: Nemeses of the Grey Knights

Post by Aubec le noir on Fri Mar 01, 2013 3:36 am

Sorry Brother C. i forgot to PM you ... Embarassed
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Re: Nemeses of the Grey Knights

Post by Constantine on Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:29 am

Aubec le noir wrote:Sorry Brother C. i forgot to PM you ... Embarassed
Aubec pirat

No problem Brother. I just want to make sure that this thread can stay organized and can be a useful resource Very Happy


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+++"There is nothing in the arcane and blasphemous arsenal of the forces of Chaos that can compare to faith. With the power of faith, our weapons become shining instruments of deliverance that can cleave the mightiest daemon in twain. With the power of faith, our minds appear as slivers of pure agony to the daemon, driving into the wretched forms of those who would dare stand before us. With the power of faith, our words become commands that cause the daemon to cower and cringe in terror. I could meet my enemies unarmed without a shred of fear in my chest, for I know that the Emperor watches over me and guides my hand. So let them come. We shall show them what the power of faith can do."+++ (Brother Captain Stern)

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