1850pt Purifiers List- Tournament designated

Hey guys, new here, new to the Brotherhood so I guess I need your guys opinions.

Heres my 1850pt list that I wish to take to a tournament:

Castellan Crowe

Librarian
w/ Warding Stave, Master Crafted Nemesis Weapon, 2x Servo Skulls, Might of Titan, Sanctuary, The Shrouding

Vindicare Assassin

Purifier Squad
5x Purifiers: 1x Daemonhammer, 2x Halberds, 2x Psycannons
Rhino

Purifier Squad
5x Purifiers: 1x Daemonhammer, 2x Halberds, 2x Psycannons
Rhino

Purifier Squad
5x Purifiers: 1x Daemonhammer, 2x Halberds, 2x Psycannons
Rhino

Purifier Squad
5x Purifiers: 1x Daemonhammer, 2x Halberds, 2x Psycannons
Rhino

Purifier Squad
5x Purifiers: 1x Daemonhammer, 2x Halberds, 2x Psycannons
Rhino

Purifier Squad
5x Purifiers: 1x Daemonhammer, 2x Halberds, 2x Psycannons
Rhino

Nemesis Deadknight
w/ Hvy Psycannon, Nemesis Greatsword

Nemesis Deadknight
w/ Hvy Psycannon, Nemesis Greatsword

Totals 1845pts

What do you all think?

The idea is that the Vindicare is in a high building the whole time or near to the Librarian, picking off all the annoying IC's that are out there. The Purifiers move forward in as much of a straight line (6 inches) as is possible with the terrain (only for the first turn to get in range, or not if I am up against an assaulty army), pop smoke and let the psycannon guys sit there and shoot during the shooting phase while staying in the rhino. The Librarian moves up behind the Rhino, trying to stay out of line of site as much as possible (thus the 6 inch rhino move not just for the guys to shoot from inside). The Librarian then casts the Shrouding so that all the Rhinos get a 3+ cover save against and incoming fire from the enemy. If it is possible for the Vindicare to be in this range thats cool, but if not, no biggie. In later turns the Librarian will cast Sanctuary (and probably Might of Titan) the purifiers when they are facing the risk of being assaulted. While all this is happening, the Dreadknights are advancing, getting rid of any infantry closing in on them and eventually if they can, assaulting the Vehicles that are causing the most annoyance, having a lot of chance given their Nemesis Greatsword. Crowe will do his best to keep out of combat, but more than likely will still be in a Rhino as the chance that anything much that is scary will pose too much of a threat. Alternatively I can have him stay out of a Rhino and in cover but I will probably choose the former option.

Any holes in the list?

With the remaining 5 points I would take Warp Rift

Personally, I think you should swap the heavy psycannons for heavy incins, they are cheaper and almost as strong and way more accurate. I am also not to keen on giving the librarian a warding staff. If he could take a storm shield, I would be all for it, but a sword is what I would put on him. If you can scrape together the points, the Dread knights are a site to behold with the teleporters. They fill fast attack and heavy support niches in one(or in this case two) very convinient, very terrifing models. Just being able to make them move 12" in the movement phase is scary enough, but being able to throw them out to contest objectives in the 11th hour is priceless.

I will say that I disagree with your opinion on the incinerator. A large blast is much more useful against the horde armies than an incinerator and personally it is this type of weaponry that I would lack if I dropped the Heavy Psycannons.
For the librarian, I need him to last as I want him to team up with crowe or some purifiers and be the hard hitters in combat. And a sword just gives him +1 to him invulnerable save in CC, whereas a warding save gives him a 2+ in CC. It may be a bit more costly, but damn, 2++ is bloody staunchness.
In terms of the personal teleporters, it ends up being a contest between a whole squad of purifiers or two personal teleporters on the dreadknights which wouldn't be of much use past an objectives game. I guess if there were others out there who could say that personal teleporters are better I might change it, but until then, I think I'll stick with the purifiers.

I am currently rolling with a purifier squad (5-man) maxxed out on nemesis falchions, working good with me so far, maybe its worth considering in your purifier strong army?

The extra attacks make for wonders as purifiers are supposed to be experts against overwhelming numbers if you believe the fluff, cleansing flame then 3 attacks each is a sight to behold in any close combat...

lets start with some misconceptions. I'm not sure if the wording made it unclear and you knew these things in which case it's a reminder to others, or if it's new knowledge to you, in which case enjoy, but for everyones clarity:

The librarian can't join crowe. Nobody can join crowe, he is always alone. Also, due to this you dont have a rhino he can get in, unless he kicks purifiers out of 1.

The Vindicare already has stealth, so doesn't really have a good reason to stick by the libby.

Might of titan only works on your turn, it cant be used when you are assaulted.

On to the list!

Why the servo skulls? in your list all they seem to do is push back infiltrators, and your list doesn't mind infiltrators as it gives you something early to shoot. Neither of your hq's have communion, so deep striking the DK, the only other use for your skulls, would be risky at best. IMO drop the skulls AND the mastercrafting.

The staff is debatable, but in this list i'd drop it. In a CC heavy list its great for when you get engaged, but in this list your toughest cc squad is 2 halberds a hammer and a libby + 2 normal marines. Those squads can be eaten up by most cc squads, so your libby should try and stay out of combat, casting his powers into combat. YMMV, of course, which is why it's debatable here.


H Incincerators are actually much better against hordes then H psycannons on average, since most high level players put hordes so they get cover, and most of the large scale tournaments are classifying a lot of things as area terrain. The "go 12 inches out then place it" means you hit more troops on average, and they get no save instead of a 4. Its better against almost anything but things 20+ inches away and vehicles.

That being said, without the teleporter your dreadknights are INCREDIBLY slow. This is why the psycannons may be better for you. They can fire away at 24" no matter how slow they are. The H incin really needs to be within 16 or so inches for maximum effect. this is why they are FANTASTIC with the jump teleporter, just better all around. Without it, it evens out more, but i'm not sure if it tips in the psycannons favor or if the incinerator still holds sway (running turns 1, maybe 2 gets you into combat faster and lets you keep up with vehicles better)

Regardless, you're still slow on the DK front. They will move 6" a turn, most likely never running, so the opponent will just avoid your DK when they get near, or steer some plasma or Instant death weapons onto them. or hit them with a squad with thunderhammers. I'd either lose the swords and have them as faux-dreadnoughts that can't die to one shot, or give them teleporters. Teleporters allow you to jump move, which means all of a sudden you can get into combat turn 2, you can keep up with vehicles, you can get the assault on anything that gets close instead of the other way around, you have a unit that can teleport near those long fangs in the corner, etc. Your list really has no long range in it, and a unit that can teleport 30, run or shoot, then next turn move 12 assault 6 for a threat range of 48 (+d6) inches should not be ignored to fill that gap. I love incinerator teleport dK, but other configs are useful, i just dont thinK this particular config does a lot your army doesn't already do.

The other option would be throwing in dreadnoughts instead of DK. since you're already spamming vehicles, give em a few more to take down. Psyflemen are cheaper than DK, and shoot better, especially at tanks. On the other hand, Dreadnoughts with plasma cannons will force marines and terminators into cover, when otherwise they might just run through the open at all your ap4/5 shooting.

The falchions are interesting. i've seen them used to great effect, and i've seen them be wasted points. If i were to put them in a list, i'd make sure to have some normal, cheaper expendable guys with them so at the first wound i'm not loosing one of them. I suppose in this list you could lose the psycannon first, as any squad assaulted will probably be fighting again soon and doing less shooting, so maybe it might be a good choice? It's interesting to consider.

Maybe I'm a little biased toward the heavy psycannon. One game I used it to fire and had it positioned to hit 2 different smurf squads (If I recall correctly, one was a tactical squad and the other was a scout squad that had just killed my vindicar, I wanted vengence) so I moved my Dreadknight over a wall and fired the psycannon and had it scatter 8" back to my dreadknight. No wounds were inflicted exept to my pride, but that instance left a bad taste in my mouth for the heavy psycannon.

Thanks for all your helpful advice. I thought I'd just let the conversation flow for a while before I replied again. I have since changed my list a bit according to what I have heard from you all. So here is my revised list:

Crowe

Librarian
w/ Daemonhammer, Might of Titan, Sanctuary, the Shrouding & Warp Rift

Vindicare Assassin

Purifier Squad x5
1x Daemonhammer
2x Psycannon
2x Halberds
Rhino

Purifier Squad x5
1x Daemonhammer
2x Psycannon
2x Halberds
Rhino

Purifier Squad x5
1x Daemonhammer
2x Psycannon
2x Halberds
Rhino

Purifier Squad x5
1x Daemonhammer
2x Psycannon
2x Halberds
Rhino

Purifier Squad x5
1x Daemonhammer
2x Psycannon
2x Halberds
Rhino

3x Dreadnoughts
w/ 2x Twin-linked Autocannon & Psybolt Ammo

This list comes to 1820pts. Any suggestions as to what I could drop and replace or add?

Cheers

id just add 3 purifiers with halbards (78 pts) and put searchlights on 2 of the rhinos (2 pts)

But that puts the list size to 1900pts when the list is only allowed to be 1850pts

Search lights on every vehicle and dozer blades on a few of your rhinos.

since your librarian cannot get in any of your vehicles, if they manage shoot down the rhino blocking LOS to him, he's toast. Consider dropping one full purifier squad with rhino and replacing it with minimum terminators on foot, so the libby has a bodyguard of sorts. Id hate for one outflanking sentinel with a lascannon to just catch a glimpse of his foot and instakill him on you.

so remove:
5x purifiers +rhino
librarians Thunderhammer

and add
5x terminators w/ psycannon


basically you loose one vehicle and one psycannon. Since terminators can take hablerds or TH for free, you're gaining a lot of special weapons and CC prowess, and a bodyguard for the libby. and since the terminators are relentless, you actually dont lose ANY shots while moving (1x4heavy vs 2x2 assault). It seems like a fantastic trade to me, beneficial in almost every way.

Alright so thanks MJSwasey, made that change. It looks a bit tougher now. (I also had to remove Warp Rift from the Librarian due to a minor points error. But nevermind

Here is how it stands currently:

Crowe

Librarian w/ Might of Titan, Sanctuary, The Shrouding

Vindicare Assassin

GKT Squad x5
2x Daemonhammer (one of these guys has the Psycannon)
3x Halberd

Purifier Squad x5
1x Daemonhammer
2x Psycannons
2x Halberds
Rhino


Purifier Squad x5
1x Daemonhammer
2x Psycannons
2x Halberds
Rhino


Purifier Squad x5
1x Daemonhammer
2x Psycannons
2x Halberds
Rhino


Purifier Squad x5
1x Daemonhammer
2x Psycannons
2x Halberds
Rhino

3x Psydreads
2x TL Autocannon w/ Psybolt Ammo

1846pts

Looks rock hard! That is one fine list, you should be proud of it.


I'd test with this list, and the thing i might consider and pay special attention to is switching around the termies cc weapons (i find with 2/3, if they have storm shields in there attacking on different initiatives means they can wound allocate mostly on the storm shields at both inits). But that really only matters if your facing invuln saves, and the mix is often good too. It preference and requires playtesting, so the config you have now is probably best. A case for more halberds would be hey, you have might of titan, why do you need hammers? A case for more hammers would be hey, s8 is fantastic for monsterous creatures and doubling things out, lets me cast more non cc powers, and what if they hood my powers? plus people are naturally scared of 5 thunder hammers. And a case for the mix would be good utility.

Anyways, best of luck! let us know how it goes