BC Stern

hi i just bought a BC stern and was wondering wot hes like in game he has some cool powers plus reroll (which i have read in that thread) and a force weapon that master crafted
is he best used in 2k battles with him and a GM
are is it better to use stern than a GM which saves some points
also does the deamonic nemisis rule still apply with the new rules
plus any other goodsuses

(sorry if this has allready been talked about but i cant remember or find anything like this)

I have always found the Grand Master to be a better choice then Stern, if you have the points. Sterns biggest let down is the 5+ inv save.
I have used Stern and a Grand master in the same force and have found it to be a big point sink, and you can spend points better elsewere.
The Brother Captin (the other H.Q choice) is quite cost effective for smaller games, just dont expect great thing form him.

I've used stern a few times and found that he is most useful when played with a retinue to give him some added protection. His base stats is a turn-off compared to a GM which at base is more of a beast then Stern. The few parts about him that really add to his appeal is the use of a force weapon, knowing two powers, and his special rule (Re-roll any kind of roll once per phase but your opponent gets to choose where to roll his own re-rolls for each one stern does).

He gets to give out a total of 3 re-rolls a turn at most, which only involve him, no one else. His Nemesis Force Weapon isn't Master-crafted, it seems like it with his rule, but once you re-roll during that phase, you can't re-roll that failed save or wound.

Stern is definitely a found guy to have on the table, and worked out pretty well for me. If I had more points to spend, I would take both a GM and Stern with a Retinue and just go about my merry business of cutting down foul heretics.

I consider BC Stern to be one of the worst characters there is for us GK players, too expensive and nothing special. Better stick to the GM or BC, both with an excellent cost/effectivity ratio. Let's hope the next incarnation will give him the credit he deserves.

well i disagree with brother DonFer on that matter.
in small points armies BC Stern is a good alternative to a GM (to save points) and has useful special abilities (re-roll and MC NFW with the power of a GKGM one !) and of course his 2 PV (for the moment he's the only GKBC to have 2 PV ! )
he possess hammerfist,
and finally he doesn't count in the 0-1 limitation of GK heroes !
that's not bad for our special characters and for a BC.

But (there's always a "but" ) you'll have to use him with a retinue, but that's something i advice for the GM too !

Aubec

True indeed my brother! But comparing him to any other hero/MC of other armies Stern is not that good a choice.

I agree however that on small games he can shine, but I consider that in the average 1500 pts game it's better to take a BC or maybe a GM, give him a Psycannon and retinue. Much better considering we cannot allow us to over expend much needed points in units. We are few we need all the help we can get!

DonFer wrote:True indeed my brother! But comparing him to any other hero/MC of other armies Stern is not that good a choice.

I agree however that on small games he can shine, but I consider that in the average 1500 pts game it's better to take a BC or maybe a GM, give him a Psycannon and retinue. Much better considering we cannot allow us to over expend much needed points in units. We are few we need all the help we can get!

I agree that Stern is not that good (too expensive) compared to other SM heroes ... but for the moment it's the only choice we've got.....
and i agree too for the 1500 army : i take a GKGM with retinue and psycannon, even if he's expensive, he's worth his points, but for 1000 points ... the question and it's answer are not so obvious.

Aubec

I never take a GM unless its over the 1500 points we play 1750 and 1850 and i do for those points. For 1500 and below i Always take a BC with a psycannon as standard, always with a retinue and usually the retinue has a psycannon or incinerator.

ok so hes good if you have the points other wise stick with a GM or BC

He has his advantages. Even a GM compared to other characters/heroes is just bad these days.

He has a second wound, I5 (one of the huge benefits to a GM since he hits before SM) doesn't count towards the 0-1 GK HQ choice, has two powers standard, can have a retinue and has his little dice roll thing.

I'm not sure why his 5+ would be a let down... its the same with all of the GKT, and he can reroll his.

A BC with Psycannon IS just hard to beat for value however.... (and our codex suffers on value)

A 5+ save is a bit of a let down because just about everybody who runs a Grandmaster will give him an icon of the just to protect him (4+ inv)
In the game today a 5+ inv save on a character with more than one wound is low.
I know that Brother Captin Stern is not a Grand Master but he would still benefit from a 4+ inv save.
I agree with every body else that any Grey Knight character be they a Grand Master or Brother captin need to have a retinue.

there's a solution to his 5+ inv
put him with a retinue equipped with SS+TH then you'll have the majority 4+ inv for him too.
Aubec

Aubec, that doesnt quite work with 5th ed wound allocation.

well ... it seems you're right brother Titus... a pity
Aubec

And you complain that your chars have 5+ Invu save?So does the Chaos Space Marine Lord,Daemon Prince and Sorcerer unless they are Tzeechian,which is really of only benefit with the Sorcerer and is one of the most expensive Marks(40 for Prince,35 for Lord and 30 fpr Sorcerer)

well well the dex is just old- thinking about other dex'es especially space marines most HQ and characters got an iron halo (4+ inv) for free while other, especially older dex armies got to pay some higher prices. there are always things that will bug us i guess...

for me it bugs me that my hive tyrand has to pay 60 points for wings and a deamon prince gets his for 20 but well thats just the way it is.. let us all hope for better times with a new codex and shiny new characters that sound overpowered on the first sight like mephiston etc.

of course i hope for one new dex for you too brother ezekiel

Yeah well I had two small games today testing a Tzeenchian and Nurgle Lord and they both did abismally,the Nurgle Lord didn't kill anyone and his weapon rebelled and took off his last wound,with me rolling a 4 for his Invu.The Tzeechian fared litle better,killing 1,I say again 1 measely Ork Boy,before having his weapon rebel on him the next turn and then being crushed by a Power Klaw by failing 2 out his 3 4+ Invus.Also the Berzerkers that were with him failed also,by not actually managing to kill more than 7 Ork Boys in assault.(8 berzerkers,not including the Champ with a Fist)

Souba wrote:well well the dex is just old- thinking about other dex'es especially space marines most HQ and characters got an iron halo (4+ inv) for free while other, especially older dex armies got to pay some higher prices. there are always things that will bug us i guess...

for me it bugs me that my hive tyrand has to pay 60 points for wings and a deamon prince gets his for 20 but well thats just the way it is.. let us all hope for better times with a new codex and shiny new characters that sound overpowered on the first sight like mephiston etc.

of course i hope for one new dex for you too brother ezekiel

True vanilla characters get a free iron halo, but we at least get free termie armour and the equivalent of a relic blade so it isn't all bad.

A lot of people don't like paintball because it hurts like hell if you get hit. I tend to point out that if you're good at the game and don't get hit it isn't a problem.

Just because you're wearing a bulletproof vest doesn't mean you stand in front of a man with a machine gun. In the words of Harry from Dumb and Dumber, 'what if they shot me in the face?'

I figure the same logic applies: If you're relying on even a 4+ invulnerable save it's entirely possible you're gambling when it's not called for.

Then again, I have been playing a calculating sneaky backstabbing Alpha Legion Lord til now, not one of those heroic types. I6 and an insta-death daemonweapon are all well and good, but he's still squishier than most of the gribblies out there.

Yea, plus with a retinue he isn't targetable if I read the rules right, which is a HUGE boon. And why use him without one!

Zealadin wrote:Yea, plus with a retinue he isn't targetable if I read the rules right, which is a HUGE boon. And why use him without one!

You're right he isn't targetable in a retinue 3rd edition cheese FTW. It's always great when your opponent doesn't know that. You forceweapon their Eternal Warrior HQ to death and then they try to retaliate and can't hit your GM

Actually the retinue rule was carried over into 5th ed (under the Independent Character rules)

Rivan wrote:Actually the retinue rule was carried over into 5th ed (under the Independent Character rules)

True, but I don't think any of the 5th edition armies still have retinues do they?

Nope, not that I know of. Unless...not sure how command squads work Can a SM Captain who has a command squad leave his command squad at any time? If he can't, doesn't that make them his retinue

Rivan wrote:Nope, not that I know of. Unless...not sure how command squads work Can a SM Captain who has a command squad leave his command squad at any time? If he can't, doesn't that make them his retinue

Nope they're not a retinue, the FAQ errate changed the SM codex so command squads are just extra units that don't take up a FOC slot, hell the IC doesn't actually have to be attached to them lol I think the retinue bit under the IC rules is for old armies who still have them. I expect GW will continue to phase them out when they replace army books - hence I still think of ours as cheese caused by us being 3rd edition still.