1850pt Tourny List (Advice is greatly appreciated)

Good day brothers,

I ask of your help in a recent matter that has confronted me. A new local gaming store, and well the first real gaming store (in that the owner is directing his store towards WarHammer and gaming- as opposed to Magic) is opening- and at the opening they'll be holding an 1850pt tournament. Although this is my first tournament that I would of ever attended, and well I want to start it off on a good note.


So this is where I ask of your help, I have three lists atm- and I'm trying to think of which of the three to utilize. One I have all of the models already, the second I still have two more things to buy, and the third is a bit of an issue- with several different different things to buy.

Well on to the lists....
List One:
HQ-
Grandmaster with the Icon of the Just, Sacred Incense, Psychic Hood, and Holocaust
4X GKT retinue, one with an incinerator
Mounted in a Land Raider Crusader with smoke launchers, and a dozar blade
Troops-
Squad One-
7x GK’s, including 1x Justicar (frag grenades), and 1x Incinerator
Mounted in a Land Raider, with smoke launchers and extra armor
Squad Two-
7x GK’s, including 1x Justicar (frag grenades), and 1x Incinerator
Mounted in a Land Raider, with smoke launchers and extra armor
Squad Three-
7x GK’s, including 1x Justicar, and 1x Psycannon
1850/1850pts (8 Kill points, with 3x troops, and 3x tanks)

It's low on kill points, but alas its' low on troops- which was an issue in the one game that I have gotten with them, which was capture and control. (it was a tie- where I did not get to contest the other player's objective) The issue with the list I feel is that against an Eldar Lance maxed list- it's going to fail horribly rather quickly. Furthermore, against a horde army- it's going to be dicey. Really it'll work wonders with high manuverability, and trying to move around enemy models, using their higher AV to try to save themselves. (I get the feeling that this list will either be great in a game, or it'll fail...) But this the only list that I have gotten in at 1850pts.

One good thing about this list- a huge plus if you will- I have nothing else to buy for this army.

List Two:

HQ-
Grandmaster with Sacred Incense, Psychic Hood, and Holocaust
4X GKT retinue, one with an incinerator
Mounted in a Land Raider Crusader with smoke launchers, and a dozar blade
Troops-
Squad One-
7x GK’s, including 1x Justicar (frag grenades), and 1x Incinerator
Mounted in a Land Raider, with smoke launchers and extra armor
Squad Two-
7x GK’s, including 1x Justicar (frag grenades), and 1x Incinerator
Mounted in a Land Raider, with smoke launchers and extra armor
Squad Three-
5x IST, two with Meltaguns
Mounted in a Rhino with extra armor and smoke launchers
Squad Four-
5x IST, two with Meltaguns
Mounted in a Rhino with extra armor and smoke launchers

1850/1850pts (11 Kill points, with 4x troops, and 5x tanks)

I'm currently building my army towards this list. My main concept was to rush forward with the rhinos in front of the crusader- poping smoke on all of em with the Rhinos in front (that way the LRC can only be glanced, but on a 4+) This way I can shove 5 terminators- great at killing MC's, and hordes, with a great anti-tank element running up as well- with the two LR's in the back shooting high priority targets. It's also a pure DH list (Is that a plus?)

List Three:

HQ-
Grandmaster with Sacred Incense, Psychic Hood, and Holocaust
4X GKT retinue, one with an incinerator
Mounted in a Land Raider Crusader with smoke launchers, and a dozar blade
Troops-
Squad One-
7x GK’s, including 1x Justicar, and 2x Incinerators
Mounted in a Land Raider Crusader with smoke launchers and a dozar blade
Squad Two-
5x GK's, including 1x Justicar, and 2x PsyCannons
Squad Three-
5x IST's, including 2x with Plasma Guns
Mounted in a Rhino with extra armor, and smoke launchers
Squad Four-
Imperial Guard Infantry Platoon
Platoon Command Squad
Comprised of a Commissar, 2x grenade launchers, and a heavy weapons squad with a lascannon- both the Commissar and the Commander has a powerfist.
Infantry Squad One
One Heavy Weapons team- Lascannon
Infantry Squad Two
One Heavy Weapons team- Lascannon
Attached- Heavy Weapons Squad with 3x Lascannons (Dat's 6x Lascannons from this guard squad if you have not been counting).

1843/1850pts

With list I'm probably going to drop the power fist on the commander, and I'll have to buy another crusader (maybe two depending how my shiney new spray gun works out for me), another heavy weapons team, a heavy weapons team set (the one with 3x), a Commissar, and uh....an IG command set.

And here's where the fun can set in.
Here's all of the models I have waiting in the wings to be painted/ can be painted. If you see something here you think I should use- please tell me, I'll be building such lists soon- as the tourny is May 1st, and I'll be painting up my Terminators next most likely (as they will be used most definatly), then the GK's- as again there's an reoccuring theme.

I have the following waiting the wings:
A Chimera
A Leman Russ (standard tank- the only one we can use)
Inquisitor (the Cortez model), and another one with terminator armor
2x warriors (plasma cannon and melta gun armed), 2x sages, 2x mystics, 1x acolyte, and a priest
Another full squad of 7x GK's
2x Lascannon Dreadnoughts

I want to keep a theme with the Grey Knights, but I'm trying to think of a way to use an inquisitor in a chimera with two mystics, and perhaps a Leman Russ....but I like Land Raiders...hm...so much to take...but not enough points lol! We'll see- perhaps one of you may see something that I'm just missing/ overlooking.

Thank you all very much for your time on this matter, and I'll be update you all with any painting progress with it/ any test playing with the list as well.

-Cease

All three lists look real solid. I'm not an IG guy so I'm leaning to the first two. The only suggestion I'd make is maybe arming one IST squad with plasma guns instead for power armor sniping. Other than that, I think all the pieces are right for the lists you've put out.

One thing i really like is less land raiders more troops. It's a personal preference, but i find if you just SPAM Grey knights you can out shoot/out assualt most armies and at 1850 cover a solid area of the board with them. a few psycannons for lighter vehicles/fast things and a crusader or some isg melta for mobility/melta are usually enough for me besides all LR or Monolith spam armies

3 strong lists you have.
my preference for the first two (The one my favorite, where my army tends to)
by the way like brother MJ, i'd get some more psycannons (for instance for the GM)...
i don't like allied IG and find IST too weak, but the combinaison Melta/plasma could be very very nasty !!
Aubec

Thank you for your advice thus far on this question, I'm still messing around with some points, and trying to brainstorm ideas.

While I love fielding Land Raiders- I find that if they can be knocked out early on- I can be screwed over royally from the get go- not to mention a worry concerning Dark Eldar/ Eldar Lance spam lists/ anti-mech lists.

As the new BA book will be allowed I sorta want to squeeze an Inquisitor with two mystics somwhere in the mix as well.

Although I'm not yet 150% sure what I'll be taking, one thing seems to repeat in all of my lists, a GK GM with 4x Terminators with 1x Incinerator.
So that's what's up next on the painting block after I get a couple of WHFB stuff wrapped up.

Thank you all again for your time,

-Cease

best way to field the anti deep strike inquisitor is bare bones, as an elite choice in chimera with a mystic and two multimeltas. Remember it counts as stantionary for the free slots. 156 points, i think.

The issue I have with fielding Rhinos and Chimeras from the Daemon Hunters Codex is that:
A) they cost more points than their Space Marine and Imperial Guard counterparts.
B) The Rhino has but one fire point- compaired to the two present within SM Rhinos AND Chimera's for the DH only have two fire points compaired to teh 5 in the present tank (and our count as open topped if you fire out of them).


I have also made a post on the Bolter and Chainsword with this question, but I am having a very hard tim to making a list for this tournament, but I suppose I'll figure out something at some pt.

Thank you all again for the assistence, and please keep the comments coming.

-Cease

I never ever field the rhinos or chimeras. but if your dead set on an inquistor squad that isn't huge, they'll want a vehicle or they'll be toast quick

I prefer pure grey knights. Theres not really alot of deep striking things we fear, as our basic troop can survive most fire and damage almost anything on the charge.

I can see a good 1850 list being 1-2 land raiders, one with termies and the second with termies if you don't care about comp, or GK if you do. Possibly one dread, and/or if your feeling frisky an assassin (the Inquisitor would either be equipped like a CC termie or be extra wounds in a GK squad. If you only have one land raider, a dual flamer deep striking squad would be good to put some mobile pressure on.

Then at least 4 decently sized squads of troops, with at least one being a dual psycannon obj sitter. I prefer two 5-6 man two psycannon squads to sit on objectives, as shrouding and the GK's in the enemies face make them survive well.


My personal preferences would look like This:

BC stern + 4 termies(with holocaust)
Land raider smoke extra armor

8 GK Frag and melta nades, targeter
8 GK Frag and melta nades, targeter
6 GK (two psycannons, targeter)
6 GK (two psycannons, targeter)

5 fast attack GK (two incinerators)

CCW MM Smoke EA dread

As i recall that hits 1850 exactly, and you can see the HUGE firepower difference loosing the two raiders make. Obviously you should make your own list, i'm not just suggesting you use mine, but as a comparison look at the damage output of the two lists, and the increase in resiliency more troops brings.

You'd get have 4 full gk squads firing every turn (which werent firing while in the raider, and with two shots each thats alot) PLUS a deep striking squad and a dread for anti vehicle. The dread is tougher then your IST squads in vehicles were, as popping the vehicle makes them pretty much dead, and the Psycannons IMO hunt light vehicles better, as your melta rhinos will get chewed up by any antitank in sight so i don't think they'll get close.

Have you tested this army MJ? At that points level I'd feel mighty 'nikid' without two Raiders.

similar ones. I usually make up quick lists before battles so they're rarely every perfectly the same.

With the large amount of troops it's a suprisingly consistant list. Games often ended with my rear psycannons alive and well since every squad i have is a threat and they have to deal with the closer ones first. I run the two big squads one side of center running from cover to cover and far enough apart to not be hit by scatters but close enough to shoot the same things The often stop at a good range to just shoot without taking much return fire. I run the LR sheilding the dread up the other, and force them to make tough decisions on which side to really push at. Since the opponent usually has some anti tank and some anti marine on each side, at least some weapons on each side will be semi useless to him. But either way he's fending off advancing units instead of hurting my rear units, and by the time he gets there it will be too late.

Don't get me wrong, I love LR's, but I use them as a very specific tool. They are turn two termie delivery units in MY playstyle, and any extra life beyond that is a bonus to shoot up tanks, move up GK, or contest objectives. Since few armies can kill LR at over 12" but many can destroy them at under that, i feel when i drive it in to deliver something i'm sacrificing it, and i cant afford to give away too many sacrificial points.

If i may ask, how do you use land raiders? I pretty much always prefer to have my GK shooting every turn, so the only thing that makes sense to me is to put termies in it. Do you have the GK outside and just load them in when assualters get close, or do you just run all your squads inside the LR and rush straight in, or send two forward and keep one covering objectives, or some mix? Send them all in together or a fair bit apart?

I'd feel pretty naked without at least 25+ gk on the table, as the opponent can ignore your LRs if you don't have enough support, since LR by themselves don't kill much. In the first list above, think about the fact if the opponent can kill 5 termies and 21 marines (doesn't sound too hard, does it?), your LR just drive around constesting things and taking pot shots and generally not killing many troops. But if you take a more balanced list, now the opponent must kill 5 termies, 33 marines, and a dreadnaught, as they all have the capability to wipe out squads in assault and/or by shooting. Thats a significantly taller order, especially since most of the additions are scoring.


I highly suggest trying "just for fun" list the next time your playing with a buddy with only one or no land raiders, and seeing how it plays. You all know i'm a huge experimentation fan and encourage people to find their own playstyles. I've played with up to three but found my niche at one, and didn't care for 0. But if your convinced 2-3 is better and never try 1-0 for fear of being 'nekkid', you never see the good sides to it i've feel in love with, or at least experience the negatives to know why you don't like it and what the LR are giving you over normal lists that you should really capitalize on.

Why don't you give your grandmaster a incinerator or combi-meltagun and mastercraft his NFW?
Why use a pychic hood if nearly everyone is GK or inside a vehicle.
Do you know your dozar-blade only helps if you move 6".
Why don't you use hammerhand to deal with walkers?
Have you also thought about using SOB?
good luck

I have yet to fully settle on a given list, as the rules/ comp scoring discussion (or even if painted armies will be given a plus somehow) has yet to be posted, but I have been informed that it will be sent later on this week- at which point I'll probably have to scramble to figure something out.
I've unfortunatly missed the last two game days over at the local club due to some medical procedures, so I'm sorta bitting at the bit to go cutt my teeth with these lists (using some unpainted models and proxies- ugh..I hate that).

I wouldn't want to use an incinerator on my Grand Master, as it would sorta be a waste I think of his WS5- but I believe that I had mastercrafted his NFW (as this has saved my ass in a previous game against Nids- one hitting a Carnifex? Huzah!)

I always use a psychic hood these days, as I have found their abilities to be invaluable. I'll give a few examples; In a game against Space Wolves it countered living lightning almost every time, saving one squad from getting wiped out off an objective. Against Eldar- especially Eldrad it can really hit em hard, as in order to fortune or buff themselves- they have to roll off for any new power. The best time I've used the hood though, was to stop two Zoanthropes from popping my Land Raider Crusader- Truely worth the 20pts! As far as Hammerhand- that is a good idea, and I will have to look into it further- or perhaps take one Terminator with a thunderhammer with a storm sheild. Hm....list making can be most difficult at times.

I have not put any thought into fielding Sisters of Battle as an ally instead of guard- although I have seen exorcists- and know that their probably the best all around tank in all of the Imperial armies. D6 str 8 ap1 shots per turn? Oh snaps. However, the issue with using SoB as allies is their cost, not points wise- but money. There is one box of troops left in the area- sitting pretty at 42 bucks, and not a single one SoB tank in sight to purchase. This is the biggest problem that I have with taking the Sisters as Allies- that and well the codex has been pulled, and there are no more codexes around that I know of (when the books were pulled, alot of people apparently bought the the local stores out of anything and everything SoB).


There are a couple of problems facing me at the moment, one is that I do not yet know the rules for the tournament are (as in painting/ display board concept/ composition scores). Furthemore, I am currently in what I've come to term as "crunch time" in my senior at college, SOoooo free time has gone away; but if I can get ahead in my work enough I may be able to pull off some serious painting.

At the moment, I'm gearing for the Second and Third lists that I have posted, and those will most likely be the ones I'll be test playing on this coming Monday.

As always any more comments and suggestions are greatly appreciated, and thank you for your time.

-Cease