New to GK, Purist list.

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New to GK, Purist list.

Post by James on Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:41 pm

Im new to the GK, and Im starting strong. I want to start a purist army, straight out.

The list Im looking at right now looks a lot like the one below. Im not big into Land raiders, but am thinking about one less terminator squad, one less GK squad, and add and two landraiders.

BC+ Hammerhand, 4 Terminators 255
BD+ Hammerhand, 5 Terminators 301
(Cool PAGK 7 GK + Justicar, Psybolts, Targeter 236
(Cool PAGK 7 GK + Justicar, Psybolts, Targeter 236
(Cool PAGK 7 GK + Justicar, Psybolts, Targeter 236
(Cool PAGK 7 GK + Justicar, Psybolts, Targeter 236

that comes to 1500 on the nose.

It looks to me like a pretty good water based list, with lots of troops (for GKs anyways) and a bit of assaulty support. I like to play very 'come and get me' strategy. I've never played GK, but from what I read, That tactic seems to work.

I love the idea of standing firm and making the enemy come to me, only to get torn up before they ever reach the lines.

either way, Ideas, criticism. I know the list has a lack of anti-tank, but thats hard to come by. I feel like the land raider is a points sink, because Im paying for a mobile lascannon. Wasted mobility that I dont need for a stand your ground army.

another option would be dreadnoughts, but Im hesitant to spend the points.

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Re: New to GK, Purist list.

Post by Klomster on Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:51 pm

Welcome to the site brother.

BD?

Perhaps a few melta bombs for the justicars.

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Re: New to GK, Purist list.

Post by Constantine on Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:40 pm

I like the visual imagry of your force, but you will need some anti armour just incase the enimies that are comming to get you are armoured vehicles!!!

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Re: New to GK, Purist list.

Post by Spartan on Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:26 am

Constantine wrote:I like the visual imagry of your force, but you will need some anti armour just incase the enimies that are comming to get you are armoured vehicles!!!

I agree with Constantine your army will look great but you will not survive a shoot out with most other armies, who have equal fire power and greater numbers. The Grey Knights strongest attribute is adaptability they can take the fight to the enemy or sit back and shoot or both depends on who they are playing against, by not having vehicles you have cut off long range anti tank weapons and protection for getting in close to the enemy.

Land Raiders in my experience are by no means a points sink, in the 2 games I have played it has been pivitol and survived, it has drawn enemy fire meaning my PAGK live longer and has to great effect been used to charge a SM Bike squad with Captain attached taken a couple of them out and then offloaded terminators who also shoot them assault and in one turn wiped out the squad of bikers. Land Raiders are in summary mobile anti tank, fire drawing personal transporting gifts from the Emperor and should be taken in all games of 1000 pts and over.

For you I would lose the second Terms and replace them with a Land Raider saving 61 pts lose one of the GK squads get another raider so saving now 37 pts I would then lose 1 terminator and 2 targeters you only need one and fire them first the use the measured distance to judge the others (or you just lose 2 PAGK) and upgrade your Brother Captain to a Grand Master.

Also if you wanted try and swap stuff around to get a psycannon on the Grand Master hitting on a roll of 2 is great.

Just some ideas for you to think over.

Sorry for the rushed typing and any errors or if it makes no sense as I am just going out any questions just ask.

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Re: New to GK, Purist list.

Post by Coyote on Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:24 pm

I like your list bro and welcome to the GK fold. Spartan has pretty much reflected to you the conventional wisdom about the most popular and what seems to be the most effective GK strategy right now.

However, if the theme is what youre going for then by all means run with it. With that many units you could easily upgrade one or even two of you PAGK to fast attack. Deep strike them in with two squads of termies and your opponent just might $h!t a brick trying to figure out how hes going to handle that many GKs on his side of the board. Try to find some points for melta bombs, find points for teleport homers, and utilize deep strike to help shore up the AT and mobility vulnerabilities on your list.

As I said LRs are the most conventional ways to deal w/ GK shortcoming in 5th ed, but if I were playing your list thats what I would consider doing.

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Re: New to GK, Purist list.

Post by NemesisForce on Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:10 pm

I second and third about what has been said about the LR's. In 5th edition and with the new Machine Spirit rules, Land Raiders are by no means anywhere close to a points sink. They're hard as nails now to take out as well. Being dual anti-tank/transport (and a potential psyche-out to many opponents), they're worth their weight in gold IMHO.

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Re: New to GK, Purist list.

Post by Zealadin on Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:02 am

Welcome!
Nice looking list thats kinda what I had in mind when I first started collecting GK and have since purchased a LR and a Dread, definately have to say the LR is well worth it : )
The dread is also good if your less into tanks.

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Re: New to GK, Purist list.

Post by Ontru on Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:53 am

When I first started Grey Knights my army was entirely foot slogging and didn't end up doing much but sponging in fire. One game I borrowed a friends land raider and will never go back. Since then I have bought 2 Land Raiders and think that their anti-tank capability and incredible survivability is without value. IMO their point cheap for the overall effect they have on a game ^^

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agreed

Post by James on Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:59 am

I do suppose I should put the cash up for one at least. one challenge I've definately faced while deciding to play grey knights is the price. for the list abouve, Im looking at like 8 boxes of PAGK, 2 boxes of Terms, and If I drop one of each for a dread and a land raider, Im still looking at money.

lets see.
5 GK per box, 4 usable= 2 boxes per squad =70.00
3x70=210

If I just go withe the one GKT Squad, thats another 50, so 260

Plus a dread, another 40.00 = 300

plus a land raider, so another 55.00. over all, were looking at 355.00. Thats a good chunk of change. So how do you guys pay for it?

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Re: New to GK, Purist list.

Post by NemesisForce on Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:19 am

I suggest to grab yourself a third box of GK's instead of the Dread. It would make for a more solid beginning force. Can't state how much an LR is worth it though for Grey Knights. Played two games last night and my LR put me in a position to win one game and almost win the other (a draw). Would never even have come close to winning either if I had to foot slog my force. As for money, I'm older and have a steady, decent-paying job so it's not an issue for me. I'd rather be younger and scraping for cash though. You'll just have to work at it slowly I guess. You have a birthday coming soon maybe?

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Re: New to GK, Purist list.

Post by Zealadin on Sat Jan 17, 2009 3:59 pm

I would also buy all the GK's in boxes off ebay.
I saved about 35% when I bought 4 boxes of GK's and a box of GKT + Stern, which was pretty good.
This is including shipping.

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Re: New to GK, Purist list.

Post by Coyote on Sun Jan 18, 2009 7:38 pm

I used ebay and waited patiently... if you don't mind buying used and then stripping the paint you can get some pretty good deals and of course the more you buy at once (army deals) the better the price usually

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Re: New to GK, Purist list.

Post by James on Mon Jan 19, 2009 5:42 am

Well, after much reading and soaking in all I've read, added in with my experience as a blood angels player...(yeah, its hard for me to sit still!) I've reworked the list to include a Raider, and some teleport homers to deep strike with.

The new list looks like this:
GKGM+3 Terminators-283
Land Raider-250
8 PAGK, Justicar, Psybolts, Tele Homer, Targeter-246
8 PAGK, Justicar, Psybolts, Tele Homer-245
(Fast) 8 PAGK, Justicar, Psybolts-235
(Fast) 8 PAGK, Justicar, Psybolts-235

1494

Again, I've read quite a bit more, and learned the versatility of the land raider, both as mobility, as well as anti-tank. I've only opted to use one in 1500 points. in 1750 to 1850, there will be a second raider, and I can see a very viable role as a teleport homer carrier, for a little more strategic deployment, flanking and counter charging.


Again, coming from my 3000 points of BA, its hard not to see the viability of Grey knights CC Prowess, but only after fire support, and then comes the meat grinder.

I forsee myself flanking at a reasonable distance, thinning with the storm bolters (24 inches or there abouts is reasonable) again, 14 s4 ap5 and 2 s4 ap4 shots do pretty well to tenderize, and then comes the meat grinder, depending on the results of the tenderizing.

again, I have two fast attack units, and two countercharge units. the terminators (as with every army) are a 'take all comers' unit, and I wish I had more points to flesh them out. 3 Wound GM or not, they make me nervous with only 4 models.

again, I've kept the numbers up as much as possible. I've played Blood angels for 3 years, and those habits are hard to drop. Im going to try and play this way, and see how that works out for me.

Im also buying a bit at a time, just whenever i can get a single model for 4 or 5 bucks off ebay, Ill pick one up. I've also thought (even though its heretical) about buying a box and casting my own from resin. most likely wont happen, but its a thought. I've also cleansed my bitz box, and im trying to get rid of my chaos army. Just seems like they wouldnt get along with the new kids on the blocks!

As always, comments are very appreciated.

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Re: New to GK, Purist list.

Post by Coyote on Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:17 am

Looks like a solid list.

As for buying stuff. If you've just gotta have that new car smell then www.scifigenre.com sells GW products at 15% off of retail price and if you order over $70 or $75 dollars I can't remember, then shipping is free.

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Re: New to GK, Purist list.

Post by James on Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:41 am

nah, The metal models are easy to strip. no modesty on the Grey knights code. It doesnt matter to me new or old, and its not that Im young or jobless, Im just a daddy, and money goes fast.

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Re: New to GK, Purist list.

Post by Zealadin on Mon Jan 19, 2009 6:06 pm

Yea buying them painted and stripping them is the best value for money, can get them REALLY cheap quite often, and a soaking in some chemicals and a good brushing later and you have absolutely new models.

But I wouldn't recommend what alot of noobs do and just undercoat over someone elses paintjob. Doing that to GK's should be punishable by death

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Re: New to GK, Purist list.

Post by Constantine on Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:55 pm

Zealadin wrote:But I wouldn't recommend what alot of noobs do and just undercoat over someone elses paintjob. Doing that to GK's should be punishable by death

I agree this is a bad habit to get into. You loose soo much of the detail on the modelthat way Mad I think a more fitting punishment would be a week in the acroflagulent (everyone makes mistakes) Wink

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Re: New to GK, Purist list.

Post by James on Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:40 pm

yeah, I've been painting a while, and I go by the same handle on Bolter and chainsword if any of ya wanna look up some of my blood angels.

Well, speaking of sanguinius' chosen, I had a mock battle last night using one of my assault squads, and one grey knight squad, like 150 points a piece, and Im startign to learn what GK is really about. the first time, the BA's tore the GKs up, then i learned the valuable lesson of using your targeter to move just out of assault range. then GKs shoot twice, and get the charge. When My blood angels got the charge, it never ended well.

So Im pretty sure Im gonna Enjoy playing GKs, just not so... in ya face as blood angels. I've just never played an army that moved instead of tried to get as close as fast as possible to the enemy. Its gonna be an adventure, but If I can get the models together, Ill give it a go, and am pretty excited

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Re: New to GK, Purist list.

Post by Zealadin on Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:21 pm

Yea its a very strategic army, alot of people can just run forward empty their guns into peoples face and win as long as they don't take too many losses.
GK's require a bit more finese.
That being said some of the rule changes in the current edition did destroy alot of GK strats but we can't complain too much : )

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Re: New to GK, Purist list.

Post by Coyote on Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:49 pm

I agree with Zealadin that the new rules destroyed some of the old strategies, but to be fair they were also responsible for some new ones too.

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Re: New to GK, Purist list.

Post by James on Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:48 pm

Well, I've started painting my first test mini (because its the only one I have) and gotten to a solid WIP state I feel comfortable sharing. Enjoy.

http://greyknights.forumotion.com/pics-of-your-painted-units-f5/gk-test-model-t674.htm#7638

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Re: New to GK, Purist list.

Post by Zealadin on Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:28 pm

That GKT is looking awesome!
Good to see someone else likes to paint their stormbolters a different colour too Razz
Definately an idea to see about a bit of inking or something, because contrast will always bring out the details on your models, and make them look more battle ready (imo).

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Re: New to GK, Purist list.

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