1500 points 5th edition against Black Templars

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1500 points 5th edition against Black Templars

Post by santanero on Mon Aug 18, 2008 4:49 am

Last weekend I got to play again against my friend mech Black Templars. In this occasion I switched to Grey Knights (I am play testing all my armies on 5th edition rules)

The black templars lists changed a little in order to accommodate a 4th troop choice …

- Marshall
- Marshall
- Emperor Champion with anti-psyquic vow.
- 1 mech crusader squads (8 each) with close combat weapons and in rhino
- 1 mech crusader squads (9 each) with close combat weapons and in rhino
- 1 mech crusader squad (10) with close combat weapons and in rhino
- 1 crusader squad (5) with a Lascannon
- 1 bike squad (4) with power weapon and 2 melta guns
- 1 dread with TLLC and missile launcher
- 1 vindicator

Against that lot of black power armour I tried a first 5th edition variant of my Grey Knights lists, removing 1 of 2 Land Raiders to fit more troops in… Also exchanged Grand Master for a couple of Brother Captains, splitting the termie retinue in two but doubling the amount of psycanon fire I can send out.

- BC with psycanon plus 3 GKT retinue with psycanon
- BC with psycanon plus 3 GKT retinue with psycanon
- 3 * PAGK squad (5) with 2 psycanons each
- 1 GK Land Raider
- 1 GK Dready with TLLC, DCCW and Heavy Flamer

We rolled for mission a got the one with one objective for each side, and the deployment was on table quarters. Got first turn and kept it. I deployed castling 2 PAGK and the dready in the best cover available in my quarter, setting there my objective (that was unfortunately to close to the center for my tastes). That was my defense force. My attack force where the termies (all deep striking) and the Land Raider plus the remaining PAGK squad (embarked) on my right flank. He deployed a hidden defense force (vindicator plus lascannon squad) and concentrated all his rhinos plus the dready and bikes in one attack force on his right flank. The black templars got a free move due to the emperors champion vow, that brings them closer to my lines. In addition, he successfully took over the initative from me. So he got first turn.

1st Templar turn
The rhinos made an all speed rhino charge closing on my castle. Two squads debarked, one (with a Marshall) just in front of the rhinos and one (with Marshall and Champion) hidden behind them. Third squad, bikers and dready formed a second wave. Bolt pistol fire managed to kill a couple of PAGK. The dready fired from afar at the Land Raider but failed to penetrate av 14. The vindi, advancing unsupported on the templar left flank, failed also to hurt my tank. The small crusader squad fired also his lascannon but failed to hit.
1st GK turn
If you have a plan you better stick to it… I saw such a precious target in that unsupported vindi that run my Land Raider close to the center of the table to get LOS on it (instead of making the detour to go for my opponent objective) Just after finishing moving I saw my error (next turn the LR will be in optimum melta range for the bikers, plus it will receive all the attention from the couple of enemy lascannons. Trying to avoid the melta fire I debarked the PAGK placing them on the way, so if the bikes tried to fire at the LR it will get at least a cover save. In any case, the vindi, bait for my error, was destroyed right away from a machine spirited god-hammer lascannon shot. The psycanons from my castle underperformed, failing to kill almost anything from the oncoming crusaders. The dready compensated for that killing 4 marines with the heavy flamer, and then charging that squad and killing another 3. The templars responded, getting just one hit (by the Marshall) that glanced and immobilised the dready. Having won the combat 3 to 1, the templars took a couple more of hits for non-running, failed both saves so only the Marshall remained locked in combat with the GK dready

2nd Templar turn
My opponent, undaunted by his losses, continued to press forward to full effect. Bikers and second crusader squad (the one with champion and Marshall) concentrated melta and bolt pistols fire in the debarked PAGK. Just the justiciar survived, and he died in the hands of the emperors champion initiative 6 close combat attacks… The third crusader squad, closed with its rhino on my castle and put bolt pistol fire on the reduced PAGK, that died to a men… failing all the armour saves they tried. Storm bolter fire from the rhinos killed a couple of PAGK from my now only remaining troop choice. On the close combat my dready finished the BT Marshall without suffering additional damage
2nd GK turn
It’s just bottom of turn 2 I already know I cannot win this one, not having enough troops to claim either objective. I just can hope to contest both, so I get an honorably tie. But luck is not on my side today (at least not yet) Both GKT units came from reserve to deep strike. One deviates 20 cm farther away from my objective. And the one I sent after my opponent objective deviated just enough to just touch the lascannon defending squad. Using the new deep striking errors table we got the result where my opponent chose where to deploy my unit, and he set them in the corner of my right flank quadrant. They ran instead of shot in order to get close to the action. The other GKT joined their fire with the one of the LR to decimate the champion crusader squad. The immobilized dready plus the remaining PAGK fire failed to hurt to much the third crusader squad.

3rd Templar Turn.
Bikers closed on the motionless dready (arghhh!!!) and melta fire it to destroy all its weapon systems… A rhino put itself in the way of the termies to avoid them getting close to my now menaced castle. Both crusaders squads plus the rhinos put fire on the 3 remaining PAGK, killing them all. Lascannon and krak missile shots from the dready kills two GKT, and the lascannon squad fire glanced and got a crew shaken on the LR.
3rd GK Turn
My objective is in the hands of 2 reduced crusader squads and the enemy objective is defended by another one… I got only a weaponless and immobile dready, a crew shaken LR, a 2 men GKT unit and a 4 men GKT unit far from the action… what your bet… will I be able to solve this to get a tie? The Land Raider is again machine spirited to ram the side of the blocking rhino… I got a penetrating hit that became a 6!!!. Rhino destroyed and with style!!! Flying debris killed a couple of crusaders from the Marshall and Champion squad and one of my 2 remaining termies (arghhhhhhh) , The other one (the BC) killed all remaining normal troopers with psycanon fire. That unit is no longer scoring… Now I tried to charge (I don’t think I can win against the Champion and Marshall, but I wanted to deny them the bonus charge attack) but I failed the necessary difficult terrain test. The other termie squad advance and ran, so now is almost half of the way to either objective.

4th Templar Turn
The one crusader squad occupying my objective fired its pistols at the BC without effect. The other (the BC) died in CC at the hand of the emperor champion. A lascannon shot destroyed one of the LR sponsons. Bikes closed on my remaining termi squad and killed 2 termis with melta and bolter fire. The small crusader squad abandoned their objective (?????) to try to close on the remaining termis, but they are just out of range.
4th GK Turn
LR make a detour (out of templar dready LOS) to close and contest my objective next turn. My 2 remaining GKT fired and charged the bikers, killing them all but losing one to biker sarge power weapon.

5th Templar Turn
The crusader squad defending my objective had a p-fist, but will not move out of the objective to try to pop the LR. Neither the Marshall nor the champion can hurt the AV 14 monster. The dready, out of LOS repositioned itself to try to get on LOS in an hypothetical 6th turn. And in the worst move of the all match, my opponent, forgetting about his objective, moved the small crusader squad to rapid fire my lone remaining BC. (He said he was counting on a 6th turn and that it was better to put all available fire on my termie that to backpedal and await its charge….) I didn’t agree. The rapid fire produced just 3 bolter wounds on the BC, but he saved them all…
5th GK Turn
Retribution time!!!. BC psycanoned and charged into oblivion the lascannon crusader squad. The LR, surviving a 2 dice difficult terrain roll moved 30cm positioning itself at less than 8 cm from my objective, contesting it.

Situation now it’s a tie. Roll for a 6th turn and here it came… He needed to destroy the LR to change the outcome of the battle

6th Templar Turn
Defending crusader squad tried to pop LR with p-fist… needed to hit on sixes and glance on sixes two… no way…. Dready LOS is obscured, but its lascannon shot is effective (penetrating) but just managed to blown apart the second lascannon sponson. Not enough
6th GK Turn
LR move a little just to avoid counting as stationary for next turn p-fist attacks. Heavy bolter fire killed one crusader, but it is not enough to make them perform a morale check. The BC, firing at templar dready rear armour, blown it sky high.

The tie remains. Roll for a 7th turn failed, so battle ended here


It’s ridiculous that simple bolt pistols killed two thirds of my PAGK. Come on, at 25 points each (50 for justiciar and psycanon troopers) they are that much expensive you should get a chance to ignore wounds or something!!!

Well… that was a joke….

..but you can think that sitting in cover and using storm bolters and psycanons 15 PAGK should get the better in a shot-out against 30 normal marines sporting just bolt pistols… Math-hammer said. But math-hammer cannot explain 4 marines failing 4 of 5 power armour saves

In addition, getting a 70 point model (GKT + psycannon) killed in the explosion of a rhino is also ridiculous…

Well. I don’t think I played this well… The LR and his PAGK should have stormed the templar’s objective, ignoring the vindi bait I so enthusiastically took. That force, combined with my 2 deep striking termi units should have been enough to take and hold that objective. Once this have been achieved the termies (using their long range heavy strength fire) and the LR should have counterattacked back to help contest my own objective. That was the plan. But I panicked when he snatched the initiative from me and was almost ready to charge my castle by turn one.

On the other hand I think it was a big risk for my opponent to move out from his objective with the lascannon squad to add fire to try to stop my last termi unit…. But well… I was at that point failing so much armour saves that I suppose it looked to my opponent like the right thing to do…

Last edited by Snowfire on Mon Aug 18, 2008 7:39 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Just a slight tidy up, made the post easier to read. Tough break against the BT brother. Best of luck next time.)

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Re: 1500 points 5th edition against Black Templars

Post by Constantine on Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:31 am

Wow!!! Thank you for the in depth BR!!!

Sometimes the Emperoror just isn't looking over you, and your dice rolls go to Hell!!

The Universe is REALLY big and the Emperor has alot of responsibilities, so don't take it personally, OK?

Nice job on the tie though Very Happy

I hope your tie hasn't caused you to loose faith in the Grey Knights (if it has you will be SEVERELY punished). They are a hard force to play, which is one of the major attractions for many of us to play them.

Keep up the good work!!

+++"There is nothing in the arcane and blasphemous arsenal of the forces of Chaos that can compare to faith. With the power of faith, our weapons become shining instruments of deliverance that can cleave the mightiest daemon in twain. With the power of faith, our minds appear as slivers of pure agony to the daemon, driving into the wretched forms of those who would dare stand before us. With the power of faith, our words become commands that cause the daemon to cower and cringe in terror. I could meet my enemies unarmed without a shred of fear in my chest, for I know that the Emperor watches over me and guides my hand. So let them come. We shall show them what the power of faith can do."+++ (Brother Captain Stern)
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