1500 First list ever

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1500 First list ever

Post by kaistern on Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:48 pm

My LGS plays 1500 pt games. I am a very big fan of Mech cheers cheers As such this list features them heavily.... tactically idk if it would work but please feel free to tear it apart and give me advise were it goes wrong and why!

HQ
1 x Liberian with VOD and MOT 160 pts

Troops
2 x 5 GKTS with psyammo 440 pts

Elites
3 x Ven. Dreadnought with missile launchers 540 pts

Heavy Support
3 x Dreadnoughts with missile launchers 360 pts

The strategy would be to place the GKTS about 30" from the enemy infantry to start with the Dreadnoughts attempting to be 30" from enemy armor. Attempt to keep dreadnoughts at 20"-24" from the enemy and melt their armor with my 6 multi-meltas and 6 krak missles per turn. GKTS attempt to close with infantry optimal would be to stay at 12". When Dreadnoughts have destroyed enemy armor they would begin bombarding enemy infantry with frag missiles with some melta thrown in to not waste it. If my GKTS engaged in CC i would attempt to pull them out and if unsuccessful would push the dreadnoughts into CC even though they would not be as effective without their doomfists

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Re: 1500 First list ever

Post by DOMIN4TRIX on Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:23 pm

In no particular order

2/3 times you play you will be contesting objectives, to this end 2 troops choices wont be enough. Alot of people get around this by adding a grand master and using his grand strategy, this would be of particular use for your favoured army list as you could make dreadnoughts scoring units.

If you went with the Librarian instead I would recomend sanctuary/shrouding/warp rift and quicksilver as the best powers.

As a codex a main shortcoming is lack of range, to counter this most players field dreads armed with two autocannon's and psybolt ammo giving you 4 twin-linked S8 shots a turn at 48" range as opposed to the 2 S8 shots you currently have which arent twin linked. Yes a multi-melta is better at penetration ...... if you get within 12 inches

Psybolt ammo for a 5 man squad isnt cost effective - ten man squad sure. Same goes for banners. Apothecary's are almost never worth the points regardless of squad size.

Psycannons are the best guns we have - if you dont want them for your terminators please post the spare parts to me as I will take as many as my points allow.

Love the idea of a dreadnought/terminator army though

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Re: 1500 First list ever

Post by kaistern on Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:44 pm

Ok I revamped the list based on your suggestions

Gm (245pts)
-MC Psycannon
-Digital Weapons
-Psyco. Grad.

GKTS (230pts)
-5 Troops
-MC Psycannon

GKTS (230pts)
-5 Troops
-MC Psycannon

Ven. DN (195 pts)
-2 autocannons
-psyammo

Ven. DN (195 pts)
-2 autocannons
-psyammo

DN (135 pts)
-2 autocannons
-psyammo

DN (135 pts)
-2 autocannons
-psyammo

DN (135 pts)
-2 autocannons
-psyammo


Last edited by kaistern on Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:52 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : MC Psycannons)

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Re: 1500 First list ever

Post by kaistern on Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:59 pm

I had to cut out a ven. DN to make the changes but I think it will be worth it

My only concern is that I know there is at least 1 full armor army that I am sure will have 14 armor... Can the autocannons cut through this?

Right now this list has...
10 twin-linked autocannons with psyammo Shocked ( 20 S8 hits with 10 re-rolls to hit) Shocked Shocked
(God I love the idea of dreadnoughts)
3 MC Psycannons (12 S7 hits with 3 re-rolls and rending)
8 Storm bolters (16 S4 hits)

Entire list has a 66% or greater chance of hitting things


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Re: 1500 First list ever

Post by Requiem on Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:18 pm

kaistern wrote:I had to cut out a ven. DN to make the changes but I think it will be worth it

My only concern is that I know there is at least 1 full armor army that I am sure will have 14 armor... Can the autocannons cut through this?

Right now this list has...
10 twin-linked autocannons with psyammo Shocked ( 20 S8 hits with 10 re-rolls to hit) Shocked Shocked

Autocannons can only glance AV14, so landraiders and monoliths will still be a problem (though psycannons can penetrate them if you get a rending hit

and you have 20 twinlinked shots, so possibly 20 re-rolls to hit Smile MC means 1 re-roll, twinlinked all shots can be rerolled so its even better hehe

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Re: 1500 First list ever

Post by kaistern on Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:22 pm

Ok I have another question then with 40 chances to get a 6 per turn (good god) there are sure to be quite a few glancing hits, I was reading the shooting against armor section and it says that a glancing hit gives a -2 on the damage result table. However it also says that if a weapon has AP1 the it gets +1. Since the auto cannons are AP 4 does that mean we get a +4? With a total of +2 and a minimum roll of 1 then the least our auto cannons could do is a weapon destroyed... Or am I completely off base?

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Re: 1500 First list ever

Post by kaistern on Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:40 pm

So I rolled some dice for a while and I was able to get at least 1 hit with each dreadnought almost every time (assuming 14 AR). Even with out the +4 im not sure if I get from AP I was able to at minimum suppress 5 vehicles a turn just from the dreadnoughts.

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Re: 1500 First list ever

Post by bigbri on Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:51 pm

No AP4 doesn't mean we get ++4 on the damage table, the only AP modifiers for shooting vehicles are +1 on the damage table for AP1 and -1 on the damage table for Ap-. Personally I think you need to drop a dread and get either some melta henchmen or more psycannons. Stunning/shaking vehicles can be great, but sometimes you *need* to destroy them, and hoping to glance them to death with str 8 is not a decent choice.



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Re: 1500 First list ever

Post by Aubec le noir on Sat Feb 11, 2012 12:55 am

destroying AV14 could be the role of a libbie with warp rift (one of the multiple role of a GK librarian !! Wink ) ... you could maybe drop 1 dread to use a libbie... is a possibility, but i don't know if your dread love would accept to drop one ... Razz
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Re: 1500 First list ever

Post by kaistern on Sat Feb 11, 2012 7:05 am

I just realized I was messing up on my rolls... I was re-rolling the to wound not the to hit Razz with that in mind then entire army was only able to destroy 2 ar14 vehicles a turn with 2 more suppressed

Im currently thinking of mixing the dreadnoughts up... have 2 vanilla V. DN that will run at the enemy untill they are close range or in cc. Then the other 3 DN would have a mix of Autocannons and Lascannons.... I think that against high AR vehicles that the lascannon is better but against AR 12 or less then the auto cannon becomes the go to for long range... Am I right?

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Re: 1500 First list ever

Post by kaistern on Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:06 am

So I finally managed to buy some models and I am planning on launching my first battle thursday or friday.... That being said I think I have settled on this list

Gm (240pts)
MC Psycannon
Digital Weapons
2 Servo-skulls

2 x 5 GKSS (230pts)
2 MC Psycannons

3 Venerable Dreadnoughts (603pts)
Autocannon
Assault Cannon
PsyBolt Ammo
Spotlight

3 Dreadnoughts (423pts)
Autocannon
Assault Cannon
PsyBolt Ammo
Spotlight

Still don't have the stopping power of a multi-melta but this list keeps it simple and if I am within 12" I hope I will be able to just out flank whatever has 14ar

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Re: 1500 First list ever

Post by Zealadin on Sun Feb 19, 2012 7:35 pm

Well mixing assault cannons and autocannons can work, but isn't really ideal, and for this type of list you really need a razorback or rhino for each of those troop choices, and preferably 4 or 6. Even DS'ing most opponents will just kill your troops and make sure you can't win objective games.

Also not really seeing the point of the GM, two TDA Psycannon Inq for each GKSS squad if you do plan on slogging/DSing them is probably a better choice.

Your not really going to win many friends with this kind of cut throat list though, and while 6 Dreads is scary to most armies your trading Psyfle dreads which pop light vehicles really well at range, for dreads which need to be within 24" to be fully effective, I'm assuming because you want the AI from the AssCans, which isn't all that amazing and highly reliant on rends.

So you end up with dreads that need to pull the entire weight of your army, which aren't really specialised into any role, and which will struggle to kill infantry, and need to be inside the range where your opponents weapons will be most effective simply to shoot.

Stelek's lists are designed really specifically, and taking the Dread concept he posted a few days ago and trying to make it work with a totally different HQ/troop selection will rarely work. Particularly if you don't follow his basic list designing rules, like 4+2 etc.

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Re: 1500 First list ever

Post by kaistern on Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:58 am

There were several things about you post the confused me...
I can see the point in having 1 or 2 dedicated transports but 4 or 5?
Who is Stelek? I searched for a good 20min looking for his posts or a member with that name but didn't find anything... Was it a typo? Also could you provide a link to the dread concept you are refering to? I did a google search on stelek and was amused by what the urban dictionary defined it as... But do we have a member who uses that name?
Why is this list "cut throat?"

As to the combining Assault cannons and autocannons I see your point... Another idea I had was to leave 1 or 2 of the Venerable Dreadnoughts vanilla (or add an assauslt cannon on one) and rush them into CC. Would this be a good idea or would it be better just to try and keep every thing at range and snipe every thing?

The point of the GM is to use grand strategy to make some of the dreads scoring units

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Re: 1500 First list ever

Post by first strike on Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:15 pm

The list is concidered "cut throat" because it is min maxed. Min Troop and Max heavy/elite. Lets face it you have spent more points on the G M then you have spent on your troops (the base of any army). It all depends on what your player group runs and what tournaments you are looking at.
Zeadelin is correct, you will need to have more small units of troops or 3x10 man squads, transports will add to the staying power of the army. 2x5man squads will get hunted and killed on any board meaning you cannot win 2/3 of the games you play. If your opp knows that he cannot out shoot you he will just remove your troops. (the G.M will only average 2 extra troops (what if you roll a 1) and grand strat can be better spent elsewhere).

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Re: 1500 First list ever

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