How do Grey Knight armies fair in 5th Edition?

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How do Grey Knight armies fair in 5th Edition?

Post by Zadok on Tue Sep 14, 2010 3:30 am

Hey guys,
I'm looking to start a Pure GK army, but i'd be a fool to charge in to battle without knowledge and understanding.

How do GK lists do in 5th edition:

> How do they manage against 5th Edit armies, such as Ork, Chaos and Space Marines (since Orks can be lead by Ghazghull Thrakka, and Chaos by Daemon Princes - pains in my backside!)
> How do they handle the objective games: Seize ground and Attack and Defend since troop choices are...well minimal due to point costs.
> Anti tank often comes in the form of a Landraider or Dreadnaughts, How many are required?

Seriously anything you can think of concerning 5th edition, any information/advice will be of great help to me.
It's worth mentioning, i'm after a Pure GK list, I understand i'm making things harder for myself, the hope is in time, i start to master my small but specialised army.
If you play Pure GK, I'd love to hear what you list can do/have done in battles. It gives me a glimpse of possibities I could do with me.

Thanks in Advance
Z

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Re: How do Grey Knight armies fair in 5th Edition?

Post by Aubec le noir on Tue Sep 14, 2010 4:03 am

third edition GK army are often underestimated by the 5th edition players !
but to be true we have some weaknesses that our opponents can use : few anti-tank weapons, few options for fast attack...
but we have strengths too : our NFW (for GKGM in particular), our psychic hood and the fact that most GK players are veterans that know their army very well...
so we are not a third tier army but we can do good ... with incinerators against hordes, psycannons against light vehicles and armored infantry and Strategy and tactics Razz
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Re: How do Grey Knight armies fair in 5th Edition?

Post by Zealadin on Tue Sep 14, 2010 5:18 am

Yea our GKGM is capable of instant killing almost anything that isn't an eternal warrior.
All our squads are CC competent, and their shooting is good for whittling down enemy forces, you just have to apply it correctly, when you won't be facing huge counter fire.
Firing storm bolters while making a tactical withdrawal until the enemy is soft enough to charge is certainly one method if the enemy can't gun you down in return.
Incinerators are great against daemons and hordes, psycannons are feasable against light transport spam (ie Rhinos).

We have a few outdated choices, BUT we are still in with a fighting chance.

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Re: How do Grey Knight armies fair in 5th Edition?

Post by bigbri on Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:44 am

The Grand Master is the best IC killer in the game, he can fore weapon anything to death(assuming he passes the test lol) and if he has a retinue he can't be singled out in combat. Sure basic troops are 10 pts dearer than regular marines, but for that we get a str 6 CC weapon and a storm bolter. If you can stay more than 12" away from tac marines they'll never get a shot off, meanwhile you sit their blasting away with your storm bolters and psycannons. Run and Gun is the most important tactic for pure GK forces. Keep out of assault range as long as possible, we may look like we're great at CC (and we are) but you just don;t have enough bodies to go wading in. Also remember shrouding. Make your opponent roll every single time, eventually he'll fail ( I had a necron player 15" away not roll high enough, saved me a ton of shooting)

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Re: How do Grey Knight armies fair in 5th Edition?

Post by DarkRonin on Tue Sep 14, 2010 1:15 pm

As great as the Grey Knights are, Land Raiders are needed to get most things done competitively, but for a pure list, it comes down to either the Dread or the two Raiders. In the end though, the Land Raider is a better option for our army to use since it gives us the added flexibility of actuality making it to objectives and moving around the table faster as well. Land Raiders are the only transports in the army that the Grey Knights can take.

I'd like to think that the Knight's can handle Tyranid's and CSM very well, I normally come out standing upon a pile of corpses in the end and slaying the Commanders of my opponents armies as well. But against Guard, the issue is reaching their lines and actually withstanding the amount of fire that they can dish out each turn.

Either way, Grey Knights are a competitive army, but looked down upon by most because of how limiting it is and how many of the things listed in the book is outdated compared to newer rules and codices.

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Re: How do Grey Knight armies fair in 5th Edition?

Post by Zealadin on Wed Sep 15, 2010 6:59 am

There aren't many armies that can withstand the IG leaf blower lists however Very Happy

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Re: How do Grey Knight armies fair in 5th Edition?

Post by Grimhack on Wed Sep 15, 2010 2:00 pm

I think we have a few tricks up our sleeve that are the doom of some armies but lack a lot of things which makes it hard sometimes. For instance, I have no problems against nob biker armies with warlords in the biker squads because the grandmaster can instant kill them and force a victory from the combat, and if supported by normal knights the sweeping advance takes a big chunk out of their army.
Things like that make it good but on the other hand, when faced with a horde of plaguemarines in rhino's with melta's and powerfists... I haven't been able to stop that so far...

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Re: How do Grey Knight armies fair in 5th Edition?

Post by Zadok on Sun Sep 19, 2010 12:39 am

Yeah, my best friend has just got himself a pure Death Guard army - plague marines in rhinos, but with Plasma (instead of melta)...

I'm certainly not put off by GKs because they are "old", if anything that adds to their vintage & maturity - At the moment Money is the reason i can't just go out and buy a 1500pt of GKs.

I know the new codex will add alot of changes, but also from the rumors nothing too significant will change - the Storm Raven will add to our mobility which is a huge boost. Most lists I have come across are Raider lists, i do like LRs but again, they are costly moneywise - and have been thinking how a Dread list might work out. I'm hoping at Gamesday UK, I'll be able to test out some GKs if they are avaliable to play.

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Re: How do Grey Knight armies fair in 5th Edition?

Post by Primarch on Sun Sep 19, 2010 1:38 am

One thing I will say about the GKGM is that he is "excellent" for killing T5 units. I strongly disagree about the GM being good for killing MCs (typically units with T6+) simply because most of these MCs are Daemons/Demon Prince (with eternal warrior) or tyranids, and 5th ed Nids have shadow in the warp, which means 3d6 psychic tests. Againts T6+ the odds really stack against a GM to score an instant kill.

*I personally don't treat GKGM FW as an exception to eternal warrior because I don't want to waste time or create confusion, nor am I a lawyer. Razz

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Re: How do Grey Knight armies fair in 5th Edition?

Post by NemesisForce on Sun Sep 19, 2010 11:27 pm

I feel the same Primarch. We're definitely going to lose the EW insta-kill when the new dex comes out. By not using it now it'll be no biggie losin' it later.

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Re: How do Grey Knight armies fair in 5th Edition?

Post by Zealadin on Tue Sep 21, 2010 4:28 am

I think its pretty safe to say it will be replaced by some other extremely amazing abilities though.
I use it now (when I remember) because its not like people offer to let me use all the new SS rules which really really REALLY would be a huge boon since I would love a GKT heavy list.

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Re: How do Grey Knight armies fair in 5th Edition?

Post by Rivan on Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:24 am

Same here, can't wait for our SS to be 3+ vs anything. If they make the combo possible, a GM w/ nfw and SS? cheers

He'll look like the real classic holy knight of old!

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"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: How do Grey Knight armies fair in 5th Edition?

Post by kenderleech on Tue Sep 21, 2010 8:30 am

I was already thinking of taking SS on my GM with NFW. we can buy them in our current codex for 10 points, after all, instead of making the SS/TH swap. Of course, its still Our bad codex one, and not a real one. Mars needs to get off its techlord ass, and give us the real thing, y'know?

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Re: How do Grey Knight armies fair in 5th Edition?

Post by Ceasarian on Tue Sep 21, 2010 8:35 am

I've used my Daemon Hunters in a few games in 5th edition. They can still do some good, but Grey Knights can be fragile when compared to some of the less expensive newer units that 5th edition has to offer (I'm looking at you Space Wolves & Blood Angels!).

Basically it comes down to if you can force an opponent to spread out a bit more, and take out their units by multi-assaulting them with PAGKs. Not alot of units can stand up to 2x 7 manned PAGK squads shooting, and then assault. When you commit with any forces in assault with Daemon Hunters you have to be sure that your going to win in a single assault- getting bogged down by an anvil until as that hammer unit inches its way closer towards your high priced PAGK is a no go. I personally use Land Raiders as a PAGK delievery/ movement system and have had varying success with it. Some games I don't lose a Raider, other games I lose all of em in the first turn! It all comes down to luck and the roll of the dice.

My basic 5th edition more "competitive" list is as follows:
1850pt Daemon Hunters Army - “The Holy Rollers”
Head Quarters-
Grey Knight Grand Master with a Holy Relic, Psychic Hood, and Hammerhand
Retinue of 4x Grey Knight Terminators, Holocaust, Incinerator
Troops-
Grey Knight Squad One
Justicar with 6x Grey Knights (one with an incinerator)
Grey Knight Squad Two
Justicar with 6x Grey Knights (one with an incinerator)
Inquisitorial Storm Troopers Squad One
5x IST, two with Melta-guns- Mounted in a Rhino with extra armor and smoke launchers
Inquisitorial Storm Troopers Squad Two
5x IST, two with Melta-guns- Mounted in a Rhino with extra armor and smoke launchers
Heavy Support-
2x Grey Knight Land Raiders- Each with extra armor & smoke launchers (one with a storm bolter)
1x Grey Knight Land Raider Crusader- with smoke launchers

Gives you 5x tanks, and 11 kill points. But more importantly 4x scoring units, 3 Melta guns, and 4 twin-linked lascannons.

It's a tough army to play- especially in 5th edition. But Daemon Hunters are still a somewhat viable army, just not nearly as competitive as the newer armies out there (Don't play DH atm thinking that your going to win GT's or tournaments lol).

I hope that this helps,
-Cease

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Re: How do Grey Knight armies fair in 5th Edition?

Post by bigbri on Tue Sep 21, 2010 10:01 am

Rivan wrote:Same here, can't wait for our SS to be 3+ vs anything. If they make the combo possible, a GM w/ nfw and SS? cheers

He'll look like the real classic holy knight of old!

Indeed I foresee an entire squad of NFW/SS termies in a Raider working brutally well. Especially if we keep str 6 weapons. If the rumours of Anointed Armour(re-rolling all failed saves) is true, then anyone who doesn't take at least one squad of them is clearly being confused and deceived by Chaos and needs to be purged lol

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Re: How do Grey Knight armies fair in 5th Edition?

Post by Rivan on Tue Sep 21, 2010 11:03 am

@Cease: I do like your list...completely mechanized GK army. I'm going to use it as a template to build an alternate 2000 pt tourney list and see what I come up with Very Happy

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Re: How do Grey Knight armies fair in 5th Edition?

Post by Zealadin on Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:33 am

bigbri wrote:
Rivan wrote:Same here, can't wait for our SS to be 3+ vs anything. If they make the combo possible, a GM w/ nfw and SS? cheers

He'll look like the real classic holy knight of old!

Indeed I foresee an entire squad of NFW/SS termies in a Raider working brutally well. Especially if we keep str 6 weapons. If the rumours of Anointed Armour(re-rolling all failed saves) is true, then anyone who doesn't take at least one squad of them is clearly being confused and deceived by Chaos and needs to be purged lol

Or in a Storm Raven!

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Re: How do Grey Knight armies fair in 5th Edition?

Post by GMKDynamis on Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:19 pm

Just a thought to add versatility and damage to light to 14A vehicles. I have a GKGM with a NFW, SI, MC and a chainfist(195pts).That's 4X S10(doubled strength(S6) max 10, not base strength, as per codex armory) hits with 2D6 Penetration. I always wondered why GW didn't add a downloadable 5th edition codex upgrade PDF sheet for our Army, other than money. I feel like they left us hanging for over half a decade, oh ,that's right they did.

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Re: How do Grey Knight armies fair in 5th Edition?

Post by Titus on Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:20 pm

GMKDynamis wrote:Just a thought to add versatility and damage to light to 14A vehicles. I have a GKGM with a NFW, SI, MC and a chainfist(195pts).That's 4X S10(doubled strength(S6) max 10, not base strength, as per codex armory) hits with 2D6 Penetration. I always wondered why GW didn't add a downloadable 5th edition codex upgrade PDF sheet for our Army, other than money. I feel like they left us hanging for over half a decade, oh ,that's right they did.

You are actually reading that wrong. There actually is no strength 6 but the nfw adds a +2 to the GK strength of 4. Since you must choose between the two weapons for your attacks (cant mix the two special weapons) it would be 4xS8 with 2d6 penetration or 4xS6 Forceweapon attacks (5 on charge).

The GKGM above is actually 200 pts chainfist is 5 more points than power fist.

Honestly i think a better build would be A GKGM with NFW, SI, Psycannon, and Hammerhand = 195 points. He would then have the standard 4xS6 attacks, but using hammerhand he would have 5xS8(counts as 2 CCW) attacks and the with Psycannon 4xS6 shooting. I think the extra hammerhand attack and the psycannon shots for 5 points less outweigh the 2d6 penetration of a chainfist in versatility and gameplay. Without any shooting the GKGM is just a one trick pony.

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Re: How do Grey Knight armies fair in 5th Edition?

Post by Corennus on Fri Feb 11, 2011 6:04 am

"Pure" grey Knight lists struggle right now I think, especially against ultra mech armies like IG or the new all-powerful codexes like BA.

But if you take a mix of Grey Knights for CC awesomeness and inquisitors/stormtroopers for anti-vehicle I think it's pretty competitive.

Of course the new codex could make or break Grey Knights

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Re: How do Grey Knight armies fair in 5th Edition?

Post by Ezias on Fri Feb 11, 2011 4:59 pm

Titus, how do you get 4 shots with the psycannon?


Last edited by Ezias on Fri Feb 11, 2011 5:07 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Fail phone)

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Re: How do Grey Knight armies fair in 5th Edition?

Post by Titus on Fri Feb 11, 2011 6:21 pm

By accidentally hitting the '4' key instead of the '3' key and then not proof-reading before hitting the send button.

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Re: How do Grey Knight armies fair in 5th Edition?

Post by Titus on Fri Feb 11, 2011 6:21 pm

lol! cheers

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Re: How do Grey Knight armies fair in 5th Edition?

Post by Ezias on Sat Feb 12, 2011 1:29 am

Phew, thought i missed some rule Laughing

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Re: How do Grey Knight armies fair in 5th Edition?

Post by Aubec le noir on Sat Feb 12, 2011 1:52 am

just wait a little more brother ... the new psycannon rules are supposedly give them : assault 2 / heavy 4 S 7 rending shots Wink bounce bounce
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Re: How do Grey Knight armies fair in 5th Edition?

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