First GK army list please help

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First GK army list please help

Post by staticsword on Sat Aug 08, 2009 9:03 am

Ok,so here's what I got, I think it is pretty decent feel free to comment.

HQ
1x grand master (holocaust)
4x grey knight terminators rentinue (1 incinerator)
379PTS

TROOPS
10X grey knights (1 incinerator and melta bombs)
290PTS
9X grey knights (melta bombs)
255PTS

FAST ATTACK
10X grey knights (melta bombs)
280PTS

HEAVY SUPPORT
1X Grey knight dreadnought (tiwn linked lascannon, missle launcher, extra armour, smoke launchers)
148PTS
1X Grey knight dreadnought (tiwn linked lascannon, missle launcher, extra armour, smoke launchers)
148PTS

TOTAL 1500PTS

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Re: First GK army list please help

Post by Rivan on Sat Aug 08, 2009 9:39 am

The list looks good. Did you have specific ideas for your teleport attack squad? Deep striking them does run the risk of mishaps or late entry as well as reducing your starting force on the board. If you're not going to deep strike them, you might as well purchase them as troops to give you another scoring unit.

If I may make a suggestion (since I notice you don't run LR's in your list), I would reduce the size of your PAGKs and teleport PAGKs (probably by 2 each) to get a 3rd dread. The 3rd dread will not only increase the survivability for ALL 3 dreads since your opponent will have to distribute his AT shooting but also give you another AT unit. Just my two cents Very Happy

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Re: First GK army list please help

Post by staticsword on Sat Aug 08, 2009 3:05 pm

I was going to teleport them behind enemy lines while my enemy was focusing on the massive assault in front of him but i like ur idea better i think.

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Re: First GK army list please help

Post by VindicareAssassin on Sat Aug 08, 2009 7:47 pm

bring an inquisitor with teleport homer and retinue.

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Re: First GK army list please help

Post by VindicareAssassin on Sat Aug 08, 2009 7:49 pm

bring an inquisitor with teleport homer and retinue.

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Re: First GK army list please help

Post by Rivan on Sat Aug 08, 2009 8:36 pm

The inquisitor w/ teleport homer and retinue is a viable solution. However, this incorporates the idea that you'll have to speed up the inquisitor in a vehicle to wherever you want your teleport PAGK's to be or else risk the teleport squad coming in before the inquisitor is in place. While it's possible, I personally try to avoid basing one unit's effectiveness on another unit. You never know what can transpire with that inquisitor's vehicle. It can get disabled, destroyed, stunned or whatever.

My only point being as you all know..."the best laid plans rarely survives contact with the enemy...or with random dice rolls LOL"

Still, if I really wanted a teleport squad, I definitely would want a teleport homer somewhere on the field Very Happy

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"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: First GK army list please help

Post by VindicareAssassin on Sat Aug 08, 2009 8:53 pm

Brother Rivan you have a point and i wll keep that in mind. i just wish that vehicles had teleport homers. you could also give your hq homer.

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Re: First GK army list please help

Post by Zealadin on Sat Aug 08, 2009 9:08 pm

Could you write a short summary of how you plan to use your forces? (Helps us know how you play and what is effective)

Main issues I see are lack of AT, and relying on the fast attack PAGK, they don't count as a troop which is not very cool, and are notoriously unreliable.
Also relying on one unit just to feild another is rarely worth doing, as Rivan said lots of things can go wrong, and then you have wasted twice as many points for a single option, with no gain, but the loss of those points spent elsewhere.

I would also recommend one squad of PAGK being a more defensive squad, with a psycannon or two, it lets you defend a home objective or area with some longer range firepower which is effective against light tanks (which can often carry scary CC specialists in other armies) it also gives you something to take true benefit from shrouding, while forcing the opponents focus just from your dreads.
A third dread would probably be a good idea though in this size army.

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Re: First GK army list please help

Post by Ceasarian on Sat Aug 08, 2009 9:34 pm

Nice to see another Grey Knight player never a bad thing!
I thought I would help you out with some of the odds and ends of the GK list, and some of the quirks that can give you some grief.
For your command squad put another terminator on your squad- and give your GM the icon of the just. This will make the GM a bit more survivable.
I like how your have two big troops choices there- certainly never a bad thing since well, there the most important unit in the game. However I would suggest that you take a Justicar and 8x GK's- knocken' it down a little. Have two squads standard vanilla marines- no special weapons, but make sure there are melta bombs of course- and the third squad should have 2x PsyCannons, with a Justicar and 9x GK's (your objective holder). If you play an enemy where you have footslog, or get charged with the two vanilla squads- then the incinerators may not do so well.
Just drop the FAGK- they don't count as scoring units- and while that won't cripple you in most games- it'll definatly hurt you especially if some bad dice occur, which they do occur.
For the Heavy support take the three Dread's with twin linked Lascannons ^_^ that'll give you a good amount of AT weapons, but you'll still be lacking a little bit, but with some interesting tactics use- you'll be able to pull of some wins.

Hopefully this help, and it's good to see another Grey Knight Player- welcome to the ranks Very Happy

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Re: First GK army list please help

Post by staticsword on Sat Aug 08, 2009 11:44 pm

Ok here is the new list, after taking in some of your concerns i think the GK troops may be a little small.

HQ
1x grand master (icon of the just)
5x grey knight terminators rentinue
415PTS

TROOPS
6X grey knights (melta bombs)
180PTS
6X grey knights (melta bombs)
180PTS
10X grey knights (2x psycannons)
325PTS

HEAVY SUPPORT
1X Grey knight dreadnought (tiwn linked lascannon, missle launcher)
140PTS
1X Grey knight dreadnought (tiwn linked lascannon, CCW)
130PTS
1X Grey knight dreadnought (tiwn linked lascannon, CCW)
130PTS

TOTAL 1500PTS

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Re: First GK army list please help

Post by Rivan on Sun Aug 09, 2009 12:53 am

Here are some more food for thought Brother staticsword. Please bear in mind that these are all just suggestions. In the end, stick to a list that you are most comfortable with taking everything into consideration (your playing style, what models you have etc.)

I think this list looks much better. However, I noticed you over calculated your retinue by 15 pts. A GM's retinue doesn't have a BC, so your total point cost should only be 400 pts.
The heavy support section is the best combination I can think of for 3 dreads.

If this was my 1500 pt list, here's how I would suggest to do the HQ and Troops and I'll explain my reasons:

HQ
1 x Grandmaster (icon, psycannon)
4 x terminator retinue (1 psycannon)
409 pts.
TROOPS
8 x Grey Knights (targeter) 226 pts
8 x Grey Knights 225 pts
8 x Grey Knights 225 pts

There are still 15 points to distribute. Instead of melta bombs, consider giving your dreads extra armor for 5 pts each.

These are my reasons...
-I prefer to give the GM and the GKT's the psycannons because they are more survivable; they don't lose their mobility so you're talking a potential 42" threat range; and last but not least, the GM hits on 2's.
-I reduced the retinue by 1 GKT because it allows me to have a total of 24 PAGK. The GM + 4 GKTs are very tough and can survive a lot of shooting/attacks. The 2 extra PAGK can spell the difference for your scoring units.
-Giving the PAGK's the psycannons, while making them a solid fire base does have its drawbacks. It hampers their movement because you can't shoot 36" if they move; the 2 PAGK's lose their true grit and more importantly, lose their str6 attack in CC; in 5th ed, you can't freely choose who among your squad gets wounded now. You have to allocate the wounds and roll separately for models with different weapons. Meaning, if your squad takes heavy fire, there's a chance your psycannons will get knocked out whether you like it or not.
-while melta bombs do really come in handy, the PAGK's str6 CC attacks would be sufficient to deal w/ most tanks, including a leman russ, since they always hit back armor. I would hope that your dreads would have taken cared of the 1 or 2 heavy tanks (LR or monoliths) your opponent may have had.
-I feel the points are better used for EA for your dreads since it will give you the chance to still move (and hopefully get out of LOS or into cover) if you get a stunned result.

Again, these are just my thoughts based on my playing style. Take it for what its worth and tailor it to best fit your playing style. Hope this helps Very Happy

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"Though we face the power of hell, and death is at our side, we fear not, for the Emperor is with us through it all. If we live, we live for the Emperor. If we die, we die for the Emperor. So whether we live or die, we are the Emperor's. We are Grey Knights and this is why we came to be." --Grandmaster Rivan

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: First GK army list please help

Post by Zealadin on Sun Aug 09, 2009 1:24 am

Rivan's advice is really good.
I'd stress the fact that psycannons are for a defensive PAGK squad, if you won't be playing with a defensive squad that holds objectives then its probably not worth getting them, but if you do play this way, losing what will probably be 1 assaults worth of NFW attacks from 2 PAGK's for up to 9 shots a peice (or more) is well worth it

Also you don't want your psycannon squad with 10 men, its hopefully going to be in cover, and its not going to be moving, and less likely to attract massive fire (unless your other squads are already dead) so it should be the squad with the smallest number of PAGK's, while the other squads, which will be moving should have more men as it will make them more resilient and do more damage when they get in range to fire or charge, or both.

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Re: First GK army list please help

Post by Nausaden on Sun Aug 09, 2009 1:32 am

Good point Zealadin; I suppose it's best to keep all your holy soldiers on the same page. So then, would you say instead of having Pyscannons in a game that your not holding objectives to simply save the points and replace them with Storm Bolters/incinerators?

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Re: First GK army list please help

Post by For the Emperor on Sun Aug 09, 2009 2:19 pm

staticsword wrote:Ok,so here's what I got, I think it is pretty decent feel free to comment.

HQ
1x grand master (holocaust)
4x grey knight terminators rentinue (1 incinerator)
379PTS

TROOPS
10X grey knights (1 incinerator and melta bombs)
290PTS
9X grey knights (melta bombs)
255PTS

FAST ATTACK
10X grey knights (melta bombs)
280PTS

HEAVY SUPPORT

TOTAL 1500PTS
Hey static,
Cool looking list, looks fairly balanced i'd say.
Heres what I'd do and after i'll explain why.
Grandmaster Holocaust, Sacred Incense + 5 Grey Knight Terminators + 2 Pyscannons
8 Grey Knights + Incinerator
8 Grey Knights + Incinerator
10 Grey Knights + Incinerator
1X Grey knight dreadnought (twin linked lascannon, extra armour and smoke launchers)
138PTS
1X Grey knight dreadnought (twin linked lascannon, extra armour and smoke launchers)
138PTS

Heres the plan...
GrandMaster + 10 grey knights form a mini spearhead to break the enemy lines (grey knights at back to give cover save).
8 Grey knights take up each flank alongside a dreadnought to capture objectives (grey knights at back to give cover save).
Anyway if you place your objectives close to your enemies the dreadnoughts will get a last push on your opponents objective.
Bearing in mind the plan is fragile it is also adaptable. The missile launchers are gone because I don't like them and they are no good at killing the things the grey knights can't when a monstrous creature comes bowling down the field towards them.

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Re: First GK army list please help

Post by Zealadin on Sun Aug 09, 2009 8:35 pm

Yea I'd be very tempted in a game where I know I'm not going to be defending anything to remove the Psycannons, I'd really only have them on a Terminator because they can move and shoot, especially if they are footslogging, Storm Bolters are ace if your going to kite an enemy unit (highly effective depending on the enemy, but also hard to do strategically) or maybe 1 incinerator in the squad against hordes or if you can guarantee some charges for the squad (I use LRs for transport so I always get charges which makes the Incins a good investment)

Personally I feel Psycannons are totally overpriced, but have their uses, and losing the NFW attacks for a Psycannon or Incinerator can be a large tradeoff! The main reason I recommend them is because they can be great for taking out incoming infantry or light tanks, which obviously GK are already good at, but its from a distance making things arriving onyour doorstep more manageable!

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Re: First GK army list please help

Post by NemesisForce on Sun Aug 09, 2009 10:05 pm

Personally, I think the psycannon vs. NFW argument is not even close. I have a psycannon in every squad and in all my games roll way more dice for pc shooting compared to how many times I wish had the NFW when in close combat. For me the damage psycannons inflict each game have more of an impact overall compared to what I lose by having 2 less NFW's in each squad. I use them wether defending or attacking without any hesitation. As for the list, I think Rivan has streamlined it nicely. Solid 8-man squads still retaining the the 3 Dreads for heavy support.

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Re: First GK army list please help

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