1500pts NO LANDRAIDERS

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1500pts NO LANDRAIDERS

Post by For the Emperor on Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:43 pm

I seem to get a bit of stick for playing Grey Knights comments like Broken Rules, Land Raider Spam etc Well yesterday I got fed-up of it and I decided to say "alright I'll play you without LR's instead". It seems people will find any lame excuse for someone winning. - To that point I've been successful lately, I beat a Dark Eldar List who was probably the best player there with quite a bit of ease 1-0 objectives. I beat a Space Wolf player 5-0 kill points, a guard player 12-2.

Heres my non LR list:

Inquisitor Lord Thunderhammer, Incinerator
Acolyte 3 bolter-flamer
Warrior 3 meltagun
Familiar
Mystic x 2
Rhino, Extra Armour, smoke Launchers

GrandMaster, Incinerator, Hammerhand
4 Grey Knight Terminators - Incinerator

8 grey Knights + 1 incinerator x 2

9 IST'S
x 2 Plasma

Callidus Assassin

Grey Knight Dreadnought

I'm not sure what to expect really, I was hoping to make a really versatile list, but it's turned into another spearhead tactic... Except with more units.

I just think grey knights lack A.t. I would love to stick in 3 Grey Knight dreadnoughts w/twin-linked lascannons Very Happy But i'd rather buy a marine devastator squad with missile launchers.

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Re: 1500pts NO LANDRAIDERS

Post by Zealadin on Wed Jul 29, 2009 8:28 pm

Is that 1500 points? Seems kind of small for that large a points Very Happy

I don't understand the QQ about LR's pretty much any army EXCEPT other GK's has plenty of easily available anti tank weaponry that can destroy LR's and many have tanks with equal survivability and weaponry with better movement and less restrictive rules, not to mention at half the cost!

Its like people whining about the NFW rules on the GM/BC, lets be serious, we can only get one of these guys and his weapon can instant kill eternal warriors, BUT he isn't an eternal warrior himself, seems kind of fair to me?

The only people with really any reason to complain are dark eldar who have an equally outdated army and rules, but they also have dark lances, making LR's not that fearsome.

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Re: 1500pts NO LANDRAIDERS

Post by NemesisForce on Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:39 am

Sweet. You take out the things they complain about and still kick butt. Gotta luv it. Obviously the list is working for you so keep using it until the complaining begins anew and you'll have to change it again. Rolling Eyes

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Re: 1500pts NO LANDRAIDERS

Post by Zealadin on Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:40 am

Ohh I see you have two PAGK squads there, I missed that at first Razz Explains why i was confused about the points cost!

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Re: 1500pts NO LANDRAIDERS

Post by Rivan on Thu Jul 30, 2009 5:40 am

One question I would ask my whining opponent is this:
"Say you already have 2 or 3 troops choices and you have the option of buying another troop unit OR a LR for roughly the same amount of points, which would you get?"

A lot of our opponents don't realize a 10 man PAGK squad is actually more expensive than a LR. They assume (because that's how it is for their army) that we're intentionally scrimping on other units to get a second LR.

But great job FTE! Way to go in showing them you don't need LR's to kick their butts!!! cheers

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"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: 1500pts NO LANDRAIDERS

Post by Zealadin on Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:09 am

That or ask how much their troop + transport costs, I BET its less than a full squad of PAGK, or a single LR let alone close to what both cost Razz

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Re: 1500pts NO LANDRAIDERS

Post by Hamsterjoe on Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:28 am

Incenerator on your Grandmaster... a little waste no?

A list without landraiders is hard! I used to play like this before i got a landraider.

How is your inquisitor working out for you?

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Re: 1500pts NO LANDRAIDERS

Post by For the Emperor on Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:32 pm

Hamsterjoe wrote:Incenerator on your Grandmaster... a little waste no?

A list without landraiders is hard! I used to play like this before i got a landraider.

How is your inquisitor working out for you?
Your probably right about the Incinerator, never the less the I don't want my GKT hanging around so they'll be using 'run' alot.

I haven't had chance to use the list today because someone wanted a 1k game. But I still did pretty good 6-2 kill points, against space marines, (my future doubles partner) with no Land Raiders or dreadnoughts. cheers

I have to tell you how cool my inquisitor is! Having the versatility to destroy most vehicles/walker with ease and most infantry units is awesome. Today, I managed to kill a dreadnought. I took enough casualties (without going below half strength) to use 'iron will' to fall back out of pedro cantors charge range. They absorbed alot of fire after that point and pedro caught up with them and was killed by the retinue. - On other occassions he will burn 25 guardsmen on turn 1. Twisted Evil I would recommend the squad quite highly.

About the LR's, my opponents tell me the exact answers you gave me, yet they think there too hard to kill I guess.

Note, the game I won before this post were with 1 LRC, 1 LR list.

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Re: 1500pts NO LANDRAIDERS

Post by Cornix on Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:08 pm

i dont have an inqusition but im thinking about getting one, so i dont know about their effectiveness but i like how they are working for u, as anti tank? the list looks good but what do u use the assassin for?

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Re: 1500pts NO LANDRAIDERS

Post by Rivan on Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:54 pm

Ooooh, the Calidus is one mean assassin. She is so versatile that you can easily disrupt your opponent's plans if you use her correctly.

Not sure how she's worked for FTE, but when I used her before switching to an all GK list, she used to really kick some butt! (of course this was also in 4th ed when she was even more effective IMHO) Very Happy

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"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: 1500pts NO LANDRAIDERS

Post by Zealadin on Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:48 am

Incinerators on a GM isn't a waste unless your not transporting it in a LR which you aren't Razz he would get quite a few free shots with the psycannon (termi armour allows heavy shots while moving) unless you purely mean to run, which if you do (as stated) probably won't be worthwhile.
Spending the points on maybe a Icon of the Just might be more worthwhile instead.

I've also had opponents with armies literally packed with LR popping guns complain about a single LR in my list because they rolled badly and didn't have any luck against it. They never seem to bother thinking far enough that destroying it turn one, or even immobilising it would, with a single shot have just destroyed 1/6th (in a 1500 pointer) my army. In a 1000 point game its even more horrific! 25% gone.

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Re: 1500pts NO LANDRAIDERS

Post by VindicareAssassin on Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:47 pm

Zealadin wrote: They never seem to bother thinking far enough that destroying it turn one, or even immobilising it would, with a single shot have just destroyed 1/6th (in a 1500 pointer) my army. In a 1000 point game its even more horrific! 25% gone.

The people I fight always go for my LR first and i am never going to use another LR in a 1000 pts game ever again after having some blood angles and dante beat the sh*t out of it with powerfists on turn two. Shocked

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Re: 1500pts NO LANDRAIDERS

Post by For the Emperor on Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:36 pm

Cornix wrote:i dont have an inqusition but im thinking about getting one, so i dont know about their effectiveness but i like how they are working for u, as anti tank? the list looks good but what do u use the assassin for?
Originally they were designed for anti-infantry in small games killing off any unit early in the game. Now I realised that 4 flame templates are enough, (after which the enemy will run away from) the meltaguns should be able to deal with most walkers/vehicles. It also gives versatility to choose a role they will play knowing they can play both roles if they are used properly, Iron Will, Purity seals and rules like these become really useful.

She's there to re-deploy enemy heavy weapons units, losing there first turn shooting against me cheers
After which she can finish off some easy prey like a thunderfirecannon + tech priest or support a unit in combat.

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Re: 1500pts NO LANDRAIDERS

Post by VindicareAssassin on Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:56 pm

The vindicare assassin is also good for getring rid of those nasty hqs and other stat bolstering units. and he is a sniper so bye bye meltaguns and flamers.

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Re: 1500pts NO LANDRAIDERS

Post by Rivan on Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:58 pm

I like the vindicare too and have used it a lot in my previous games. The only drawback is that you only have a 50% chance of wounding with a hit, and you only have 1 shot a turn so, you figure you can wound 3 times in a 6-turn game.

Plus, with the new rules, almost everybody can get a cover save, and they can go to ground too...

Although, the coolest use for the vindicare is still the fact that he/she can shoot models locked in combat!

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"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: 1500pts NO LANDRAIDERS

Post by Constantine on Sat Aug 01, 2009 10:24 am

Rivan wrote:Although, the coolest use for the vindicare is still the fact that he/she can shoot models locked in combat!

No kidding! That is an awesome rule. I can't think of any other game that allows for snipers to shoot into combat scratch it is truely a tribute to their emence skill level.

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Re: 1500pts NO LANDRAIDERS

Post by n00bk1ng on Sat Aug 01, 2009 6:31 pm

I've found out that his marksman rule also applies to his pistol Very Happy I would say 4 wounds out of 6, as you've a hellfire round that should be used against any immediate threats, there are actually assassin tacticas on BoLs http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2007/03/tactica-vindicare-assassin.html This one is for the Vindicare. I think the vindicare is the most underused assassin however Sad However, I would really like an Culexus Assassin... Think of all those shots when you've got all those grey knights around you!

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Re: 1500pts NO LANDRAIDERS

Post by murhe on Sun Aug 02, 2009 2:56 am

Constantine wrote:
Rivan wrote:Although, the coolest use for the vindicare is still the fact that he/she can shoot models locked in combat!

No kidding! That is an awesome rule. I can't think of any other game that allows for snipers to shoot into combat scratch it is truely a tribute to their emence skill level.

Thats not unique. Warmachine and Hordes allows shooting in melee in general and some models may even make ranged attacks while they are tied in hand to hand combat.

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Re: 1500pts NO LANDRAIDERS

Post by n00bk1ng on Sun Aug 02, 2009 4:26 am

Sadly, this isn't Warmachine/Hordes... If it was, I'd be darned happy I could snipe guys fighting in CC... Ah well... Maybe dreams will come true...

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Re: 1500pts NO LANDRAIDERS

Post by Hamsterjoe on Sun Aug 02, 2009 10:56 am

n00bk1ng wrote:I've found out that his marksman rule also applies to his pistol Very Happy I would say 4 wounds out of 6, as you've a hellfire round that should be used against any immediate threats, there are actually assassin tacticas on BoLs http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2007/03/tactica-vindicare-assassin.html This one is for the Vindicare. I think the vindicare is the most underused assassin however Sad However, I would really like an Culexus Assassin... Think of all those shots when you've got all those grey knights around you!

Dont forget your aegis will be signifcally weakened with only ld7.

Well i mostly play against Chaos SM Thousand sons so every squad on the table has a psyker xD. He can be a killing machine, but i find his low range weaponry difficult to use!

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Re: 1500pts NO LANDRAIDERS

Post by BrotherDvorn on Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:34 am

It would be better to use the vindicare assassin against thousand sons because ou could just pick off the aspiring sorcerer. I know this is annoying because i have a chaos army .

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Re: 1500pts NO LANDRAIDERS

Post by n00bk1ng on Thu Aug 06, 2009 5:00 am

Although I did not forget that the Aegis would then be at LD7, I just love the idea of the massed shots Very Happy

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Re: 1500pts NO LANDRAIDERS

Post by Hamsterjoe on Thu Aug 06, 2009 6:39 am

BrotherDvorn wrote:It would be better to use the vindicare assassin against thousand sons because ou could just pick off the aspiring sorcerer. I know this is annoying because i have a chaos army .

You can also target psykers with the culexus cant you?Razz

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Re: 1500pts NO LANDRAIDERS

Post by VindicareAssassin on Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:25 pm

Yes i believe so.

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Re: 1500pts NO LANDRAIDERS

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