Modified 2000 pt all GK list options

After play testing my 1750 list, it has, so far, done well in 6 games (thank the emperor ). I decided to use it as the template for my 2000 pt list. I've pretty much made up my mind on a 3rd LR-type. Since 2 LRs have proven to be very durable, I believe a 3rd LR-type will be a very significant addition. Unfortunately, I will have to give up my ELITES GKT squad and just increase the HQ squad. I'm actually loathe to do this since I found that having 2 smaller units of GKTs gave me tremendous resilience and flexibility. Oh well, can't have everything right? The only choice I have to make now is whether to add another LR or go with a LRC. Each has its own merits and the choice actually affects the make-up of my other units. All feedback welcome, please!
Option A
HQ - GM w/ m-c nfw, p/c, SI, PH & holocaust + 4 GKTs (1 p/c; squad has holocaust)
TR - 9 x PAGK (targeter, FG, MB)
TR - 8 x PAGK (1 incinerator, targeter, FG, MB)
TR - 8 x PAGK (1 incinerator, targeter, FG, MB)
HS - LR w/ EA, DB & SL
HS - LR w/ EA, DB & SL
HS - LR w/ EA, DB, SL and search light

6 TWLLC that can fire at 6 targets if needed! I gave the GM holocaust vice hammerhand since the LRs should theoretically take care of enemy tanks and dreads. The 2 holocausts boosts my anti-horde capabilities. I'm sort of leaning towards this option since it tends to suit my playing style...

Option B
HQ - GM w/ m-c nfw, p/c, SI, PH & hammerhand + 6 GKTs (1 incinerator; holocaust)
TR - 7 x PAGK (targeter, FG, MB)
TR - 7 x PAGK (1 incinerator, targeter, FG, MB)
TR - 7 x PAGK (1 incinerator, FG, MB)
HS - LR w/ EA, DB & SL
HS - LR w/ EA, DB & SL
HS - LRC w/ DB & SL

Very strong cc HQ unit. Our LRC can fire hurricane bolters + 1 more weapon at 12". I felt that if I took a LRC, I'm almost compelled to give the HQ more GKTs because staying with 5 models seems like a waste of space Of course, my TR units suffer for it. Although I still have 30 pts to play with.

Both lists look good, It all comes down to your playing style. I started with a 1500 pt list that was the basis for a 1750 pt list. If I had 30 pts to spend I would go with 3x Word of the Emperor. Always nice to stop somebody on their assault.

When fielding an LRC you definitely need to bump up the number of GKT's to really take advantage of it. Both lists look real solid but I'm leaning to option B because of the extra Termies. Striking at initiative they'll really clean up. Giving Holo' to the GKT's really makes me uneasy. One bad roll (and it happens) can wipe the whole squad.

I think that with a HQ termie squad it's very hard to justify hammerhand over holocaust on the HQ himself. With all the melta, s6, and 2 land raiders, this brother wonders if you end up using hammerhand that much? it seems as though the force weapon removing a model would be almost as effective as hammerhand on few tough models with more wounds, and holocaust would be much more effective on any larger squad. plus you don't get alot of deaths if you roll perils.

I do see the point that perils is rolled so very few times, but in my opinion even without considering perils, I still would choose holocaust on the HQ over hammerhand (since hamerhand never seems worth the points to me), and if the retinue every took anything it would be another holocaust. run little orcs, run.

It's really up to - when do you really use hammerhand, and is it worth the 20 extra points over just having holocaust available?

I do wonder that if you cut some extraneaous equipment on the troops and a dozer blade or two (all the land raiders will be going through cover? I find that when i run through cover it's usually when assualting, and in that case A) i want to go faster B) i don't care if i get immoblised as much C) they all can't fit when moving 6" so one ends up not going through cover) if you couldn't beef up the model count a twinge.

But again it's how you like it, having squads/vehicles that can do everything are often worth the extra PAGK or two.

Both are very solid lists opponents should be scared to play!

Thanks for feedbacks Brothers! Really appreciate it.

@Nemesisforce: I'm with you on the holo for the retinue. I've never done it before actually. It's always safer on the GK hero since it won't affect the whole squad. If I take out the holo for the retinue, that gives me a total of 50 pts that can go to 2 x PAGKs. Hmmm....

@Mjswasey: Good points on the dozer blades and other stuff. I still have to mull over some combinations and might switch stuff around. Hammerhand has actually worked well for me in the past although I use it only against vehicles and dreads.

Gotta say I would lean towards the second list, especially with the larger HQ retinue and the LRC

Even though Hammerhand is a nice 'feel safe' addition, I rarely ever get in a position to use it. In fact, I can't even remember as well when last I used melta bombs, yet I was paying 25+ points between both for almost every army I fielded. Holocaust definitely would be made use of more in most games.

Ok, after considering my Brothers' sage and wise inputs...I have gone w/ option B and list will look like this:

HQ - GM w/ m-c nfw, p/c, SI, PH and holocaust + 7 GKTs (1 incinerator)
TR - 7 x PAGK (targeter & FG)
TR - 7 x PAGK (FG & MB)
TR - 7 x PAGK (FG & MB)
HS - LR w/ EA, DB & SL
HS - LR w/ EA, DB & SL
HS - LRC w/ DB & SL

With only 1 really hard-hitting unit, I decided to make it a REALLY hard-hitting unit. At first, I considered not having an extra 2 TWLLC's a serious detriment but then, if you really think about it, once GM & retinue get to the enemy's ranks, THEY are also anti-tank (at least against most tanks). Plus the LRC will do much better against infantry than another LR. Thanks for all the inputs

You sure you can't sneak one more Termie in the trunk? Can't wait to see how that unit works for you. I cringe a bit at the lack of special weapons but your 1750 point list was light on them and did pretty dang good. The list looks solid and in your capable hands should kick some arse.

LOL Thanks NF. I only have a week left of training in California before I go back to my ship so hopefully, I'll get to test out the list a couple of times

B, your GrandMaster is going to get crushed by a dreadnought, Hammerhand is the perfect pyschic power to prevent it.

You could do with a TH/SS in the Grandmaster retinue to stun multiple MC's, help against dreadnoughts, and cover the GM's attacks against independant characters/MC's.

Use an Incinerator or Combi-melta, Imo the Incinerator doesn't always survive a good example would be against SOB where everyone but the GM died, shortly after the GM hit 16 sisters of battle and killed about 5!

Also the combi-meltagun will good, if your multi-melta fails against a LR variant and then your GM blows it up he can still charge the occupants inside!

Try and fit some incinerators into your PAGK and drop the PH, it's really not needed.

The GM won't be crushed by a dreadnought unless your doing something seriously wrong. Also unless its a Dread with the 13 armour then you don't have any issues your going to have so many attacks from the GKT squad it shouldn't be an issue getting a few good hits in and destroying it

I agree that more incinerators are needed, they are really important for when you disembark shoot a squad full of bolter rounds then charge, they provide a huge benefit esp for a list like this

Excellent list Brother Rivan; your Grand Master and retinue are going to beast the field. 2 Landraiders and a Crusader would be epic to see

Zealadin wrote:The GM won't be crushed by a dreadnought unless your doing something seriously wrong. Also unless its a Dread with the 13 armour then you don't have any issues your going to have so many attacks from the GKT squad it shouldn't be an issue getting a few good hits in and destroying it

I agree that more incinerators are needed, they are really important for when you disembark shoot a squad full of bolter rounds then charge, they provide a huge benefit esp for a list like this

Seriously wrong? Like spearheading the entire enemy force? And your going to completely avoid crushing your enemy because some dreadnought is standing around?

The point is that, destroying a dreadnought with NFW's isn't gonna be a single round of combat. Also mentioning AV13 you'd most certainly be in trouble.

Looks a tight enough list -3 LR's and a big unit of GKT can make a dent in almost any opponent.

Personally I'd keep the dozer blades on the LRC but not on the godhammers if you intend them to provide a lascannon firebase from your side of the board unless their role is to get across the board with GKs on board.

@Khargor: Thanks for the tip Brother. After careful consideration, I decided to take off the Justicars' melta bombs instead. Can't even remember the last time I actually used the MB's. My LR's however, do tend to move a lot (getting a better LOS, denying LOS etc). Plus, they will usually be carrying a GK unit anyways

@FTE: I reviewed my past games and there have been several occasions where hammerhand definitely came in handy when my GM tore enemy dreads apart. Also, I realized that hammerhand will tend to be less conflicting w/ using the force weapon because of hammerhand's specific application. I do find the PH to be useful vs. psychic powers that don't necessarily target GKs (ie. eldar fortune, chaos sorcerer warp time, etc).

@Nemesisforce: I guess I'll just take the risk of a squad "perils of the warp" w/ a squad holocaust since I do want hammerhand for my GM. I'll just have to mitigate the risk as much as I can.

Final evolution of the list:
HQ - GM w/ m-c nfw, p/c, PH, SI and hammerhand + 7 GKTs (1 incinerator, 1 w/ TH/SS; squad has holocaust)
TR - 7 x PAGKs (targeter, FG)
TR - 7 x PAGKs (1 incinerator, FG)
TR - 7 x PAGKs (1 incinerator, FG)
HS - LR w/ EA, DB & SL
HS - LR w/ EA, DB & SL
HS - LRC w/ DB & SL