New Custodes and Sisters of Silence

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Re: New Custodes and Sisters of Silence

Post by Souba on Wed Nov 09, 2016 8:56 pm

i wont go into detail on every part now, its 4:40 am here Wink

cherrypicking scatterbikes is not really cherry picking. you mentioned eldar and scatterbikes are a staple for them , so i came up to them.
D cannon templates are no issue if you are immune to them. you cannot place template weapons on units you can only snapfire at (invisibility) Tigurius alone has a over 90% chance of getting the power he wants (invisibility) due to beeing mastery level 3 and beeing able to reroll each roll that determines your powers. the other libbys could roll for displacement. which is all is needed but not really neccisary (bunker example).
So the only issue is D weapons on wraithknights, which are 2 shots, which have to snapfire on 6's. not to forget then have to roll a 6 again in order to be viable at all (some of the custodes should have a stormshield) sorry. not gonna happen very often.
same goes for tau, which got it worse than eldar in this case.

so again. "cherrypicking" scatterbikes is not a issue here. since no other weapon is able to effectively harm a invisibile unit without having to rely on massive amounts of shots.
we can agree i guess, that invisibility is just a OP power.

of course not many use tigurius yet since the iron hands or white scars for example are a very stable choice. but he is a staple choice now, especially with the custodes. they are the best bang for your buck point per point wise. not a single unit in CC has similar abilities for those points. all of them beeing characters also helps in allocating wounds around in the squad.

same goes for the chaos sorceror cabal from the black legion supplement. CSM suddenly appeared on tournaments again since you can get big force multipliers rather cheap.

the bunker is awesome. void shields are nice but since they dont really save you from gravguns anymore many have started to jump ship.

the custodes formation is not for them to be op or to make them better. custodes are good as is. its made so you can play them in a battleforged army. before they were a simple elite choice without a FOC. unlike assassins for example which are each 1 elite but got a FOC with 1 elite.
with the formation you can play custodes now without playing unbound (and loosing all formation boni on the rest of your army even though they may be played with a cad/detatchment)
same goes for sisters.

and yes this game is statistics. good and bad luck happens to both of the players. thats why i mentioned multiple times, that statistics are what counts.
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Re: New Custodes and Sisters of Silence

Post by Pyriel on Thu Nov 10, 2016 12:38 am

>i wont go into detail on every part now, its 4:40 am here Wink

Know the feeling, its 8:30 here and Im rather tired myself.



>cherrypicking scatterbikes is not really cherry picking. you mentioned eldar and scatterbikes are a staple for them , so i came up to them.

True enough but scatterbikes is not what breaks the game as serpent D spam and spiders. Scatterbikes are just the insult on top.


>D cannon templates are no issue if you are immune to them. you cannot place template weapons on units you can only snapfire at (invisibility) Tigurius alone has a over 90% >chance of getting the power he wants (invisibility) due to beeing mastery level 3 and beeing able to reroll each roll that determines your powers. the other libbys could roll for >displacement. which is all is needed but not really neccisary (bunker example).

Again, not many want to be perpetually stuck with ultramarines and even then with a foot libby.

Tigurius is currently the only option to reliably enough build an army or deathstar that floats on a psychic roll and even then it is basically unseen in competitive gaming.



>So the only issue is D weapons on wraithknights, which are 2 shots, which have to snapfire on 6's. not to forget then have to roll a 6 again in order to be viable at all (some of the custodes should have a stormshield) sorry. not gonna happen very often.
same goes for tau, which got it worse than eldar in this case.

That gargantual creature kills your entire squad outright on a stomp six and no, you cant evade them either due to 12move. I have seen 700+ point necron meleestars deleted by one tau gargantual. Fun game balance!



>so again. "cherrypicking" scatterbikes is not a issue here. since no other weapon is able to effectively harm a invisibile unit without having to rely on massive amounts of shots.
we can agree i guess, that invisibility is just a OP power.

Again, your argument is moot since you hinge it on ..tada one psychic power roll and even then shoehorn the attempt at one specific chapter trait - one specific character and one specific setup of said character.



>of course not many use tigurius yet since the iron hands or white scars for example are a very stable choice. but he is a staple choice now, especially with the custodes. they >are the best bang for your buck point per point wise. not a single unit in CC has similar abilities for those points. all of them beeing characters also helps in allocating wounds >around in the squad.

Yes, tiggy with a conclave would be the only bet with custodes atm and then they rely on an expensive transport that..tadaa is one shotted by said eldar and tau D spam.



>same goes for the chaos sorceror cabal from the black legion supplement. CSM suddenly appeared on tournaments again since you can get big force multipliers rather cheap.

Not the same as the chaos cabaal does not rely on a measly roll chance. Their main power of choice already comes guaranteed with the formation. Big difference.



>the bunker is awesome. void shields are nice but since they dont really save you from gravguns anymore many have started to jump ship.

I will have to look it up and try it or maybe ask a friend to try it as an opponent. Thanks for the suggestion. Save me a bit of time and quickly go through the bunkers special rule(s) that make it so good.



>the custodes formation is not for them to be op or to make them better. custodes are good as is. its made so you can play them in a battleforged army. before they were a >simple elite choice without a FOC. unlike assassins for example which are each 1 elite but got a FOC with 1 elite.
>with the formation you can play custodes now without playing unbound (and loosing all formation boni on the rest of your army even though they may be played with a >cad/detatchment)
>same goes for sisters.

True. Sadly they made a formation that has no benefits. Pretty unique among the other formations Id say.
Plus I am baffled by how much the custodes rules differ from 30k as well as their fluff. Its just weird.



>and yes this game is statistics. good and bad luck happens to both of the players. thats why i mentioned multiple times, that statistics are what counts.

And I said that only a fool cripples himself by loading up on self imposed chance rolls on top of the statistic baseline but here I am referring to competitive play, friendly garage games just make it more fun.

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Re: New Custodes and Sisters of Silence

Post by Souba on Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:43 am

>Know the feeling, its 8:30 here and Im rather tired myself.

hehe, got some sleep now though. even though not much cause im sick

>True enough but scatterbikes is not what breaks the game as serpent D spam and spiders. Scatterbikes are just the insult on top.

Serpent D spam is not a issue in competetive gaming. on tournaments you have multiple of players playing after another, with various armys. two of the most common:
Space marines, a battle company for example is very common currently (all has objective secured, all have free vehicles, which also got objective secured). you do not got enough D weapons to win a game that is based on objectives. a serpent with 5 wraithguard with scythes is 320 points. a battlecompany is 10 droppods, 10 units of marines minimum at around 900 points. a good player will only let you kill max one unit per unit of you firing.
add some models or upgrades heck most tournaments play at 1850, that gives you enough room to play with and get even more models or upgrade with some additional formations like the skyhammer anihilation force (which is just op).
Space marines also come with all that sweet grav, which makes a wraithknight dissapear in one round of shooting.

daemons also very common, especially the tetrat currently. they simply rip though vehicles and units like there is no tomorrow without beeing touched much themselves due to all those synergies and updates and of course flying. they were always in the top 5 armies, now they are at the top 3 thanks to curse of the wulfen.

even tyranids are often there aswell. though its only one list with minor tweaks that includes 5 flying hive tyrants with 2 TL devourers and hawire flamers. those things alone will make your day horrible since scythes do not work against them and they anihilate your transports.

but why dont we go into subject on the various eldar units themselves?

wraithguard with scythes: 1/3 times, they dont work. they cannot roll a 6. that makes them not bad, but not good aswell for those points. what breaks their necks: if the transport they are in does a jink move. they have to snapfire aswell in the following shooting phase as per the current FAQ. that limits their uses heavily. either you let your serpent blow up and they have to footslog or you waste time with not shooting at all.

heavy support platforms. many players dont play them right. they only have a 24" range with their d cannon templates and are not relentless (only the platforms in guardian units are). so they are stationary with 24" range... and now when was the 24" range the grey knights have with most weapons counted as "threatening"?

warp spiders. they where good, they are still good but: the jump when beeing fired at got FAQ'ed to be only once per round aswell. that makes them still good but no longer broken as they where previously.

wraithknight. yeah definitely undercosted. intimidating, at first. there are currently so many ways to counter them in one round (drop grav cents for example) that competetive eldar players mostly use 2 if any at all (similar to the issue WHFB had with monsters. go big or go home cause those cannons vaporized one without you beeing able to do much)

that only really leave scatterbikes. great movement. can move 12" and after firing move back behind cover. have good range with 36" and S6 with 4 shots each for 27 points.
thats why you mostly see scatterbikes, some wraithknights and almost none scythe guards. warpspiders where once really competetive as a spam army i give you that but the FAQ cripled them and as that happened, they dissapeared from competetive gaming.

>Again, not many want to be perpetually stuck with ultramarines and even then with a foot libby.

>Tigurius is currently the only option to reliably enough build an army or deathstar that floats on a psychic roll and even then it is basically unseen in competitive gaming.

>Yes, tiggy with a conclave would be the only bet with custodes atm and then they rely on an expensive transport that..tadaa is one shotted by said eldar and tau D spam.


then dont play tiggy. get white scars (so custodes get hit& run) and get 2 additional libbys. 4x 2 rolls on any discipline you want. getting powers off on a 2+. you get what you want.
why not sit back and do the math to get the powers you want or simply roll multiple scenarios. you get what you want. you have a up to 32-42" charge range

>Not the same as the chaos cabaal does not rely on a measly roll chance. Their main power of choice already comes guaranteed with the formation. Big difference.

the cabal has one power which makes the formation not great (the power is good, nontheless) its the option to get 3-5 sorcerors without having to play multiple CADS or anything like that (so you only have to spend points in the sorcerors, not any cultist tax or anything). the conclave has the same amount of psykers but can get their powers off on 2+ rather than 4+, which is HUGE. (and they also dont have to pay a unit tax anymore)
psychic support is big in many top tier list. just because you dont think they are competetive, does not mean they arent. there is massive amounts of proof that psychic powers are a big choice in army constellation currently.

>I will have to look it up and try it or maybe ask a friend to try it as an opponent. Thanks for the suggestion. Save me a bit of time and quickly go through the bunkers special rule(s) that make it so good.

50 points, can hold up to 20 models inside. up to 4 models can use its firing hatch. AV 14 all around 3(or even 4 not sure right now) HP. they got fortifications on top that even grant a 4+ cover save for units ontop of it (even wraithknights, lol Very Happy ). building table is immune to immobilized by grav so you are immune to them.
they can have 2 upgrades like the escape hatch (25 points) you set a point within 18" of the bunker that acts as point for your units to get out too (you cannot enter via the hatch, only exit). that means you can put the escape hatch up to 18" infront of you, still have 6" disembark. the hatch cannot be destroyed. you cannot assault on the turn you leave the escape hatch (but if you leave the bunker normally, you can).
then there are various options like munition crates that allow to hit rolls of 1 to be rerolled. a void shield etc. etc. generally a good bang for your buck.

>True. Sadly they made a formation that has no benefits. Pretty unique among the other formations Id say.
>Plus I am baffled by how much the custodes rules differ from 30k as well as their fluff. Its just weird.

yeah but it is better that way. custodes beeing T5 allready with a 2+/3++ 2 wounds and eternal warrior coupled with the weapons beeing S5 ap 3 i 4 or S6 ap2 i4 makes up for it. feel similar to paladins back then... but better Very Happy
yeah the rules differ greatly but it is understandable. 30 and 40k have differnt types of play in mind.

>And I said that only a fool cripples himself by loading up on self imposed chance rolls on top of the statistic baseline but here I am >referring to competitive play, friendly garage games just make it more fun.
when talking about competetive play, you gotta take it on. if you wanna talk about friendly games it is a different matter. yet i wonder why someone would bring a D spam to friendly games, if the main objective is to have fun. Wink
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Re: New Custodes and Sisters of Silence

Post by Pyriel on Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:49 pm

>Serpent D spam is not a issue in competetive gaming. on tournaments you have multiple of players playing after another, with various armys. two of the most common:
>Space marines, a battle company for example is very common currently (all has objective secured, all have free vehicles, which also got objective secured). you do not got >enough D weapons to win a game that is based on objectives. a serpent with 5 wraithguard with scythes is 320 points. a battlecompany is 10 droppods, 10 units of marines >minimum at around 900 points. a good player will only let you kill max one unit per unit of you firing.
>add some models or upgrades heck most tournaments play at 1850, that gives you enough room to play with and get even more models or upgrade with some additional >formations like the skyhammer anihilation force (which is just op).
>Space marines also come with all that sweet grav, which makes a wraithknight dissapear in one round of shooting.

Only because all the aspects can shanghai dark eldar venoms.

Serpent spam with cheap fusion passengers is insane for a good reason.
Scatter bikes is the obsec icing on the cake.

That 320p D serpent is guaranteed to delete anything it points at like an imperial knight.



>daemons also very common, especially the tetrat currently. they simply rip though vehicles and units like there is no tomorrow without beeing touched much themselves due >to all those synergies and updates and of course flying. they were always in the top 5 armies, now they are at the top 3 thanks to curse of the wulfen.

Well, then take grey knights..oh wait.

You asked me why I am often so damn negative and wondered why I even play this game. Well, I like it and spend an insane amount of time and effort on my minis.
Take this for example:
I finished a big paladin force, some 40 paladins in all configurations because once they were fun and playable. Big deal you might ask. Well, not really as every single mini has custom sculpting on it and takes on average 11 hours a piece to paint.

Imagine all this sweat and work simply sitting on a shelf collecting dust because geedub fucked up the game balance this much.
So yes, no wonder I am pissed now and then.

Last month I had an argument with a geedub redshirt in the store about the shit that is eldar today. I asked him after a lot of denial about army power disparity how the fuck he would handle things like wraithknights if he used GKs and the reply was a clueless duuuh, just shoot them with massed psycannons.

I truly believe this is the level of intelligence housed at geedub playtest team.



>even tyranids are often there aswell. though its only one list with minor tweaks that includes 5 flying hive tyrants with 2 TL devourers and hawire flamers. those things alone >will make your day horrible since scythes do not work against them and they anihilate your transports.

Yes although I love my stalkers so bring it:)



>but why dont we go into subject on the various eldar units themselves?
>wraithguard with scythes: 1/3 times, they dont work. they cannot roll a 6. that makes them not bad, but not good aswell for those points. what breaks their necks: if the >transport they are in does a jink move. they have to snapfire aswell in the following shooting phase as per the current FAQ. that limits their uses heavily. either you let your >serpent blow up and they have to footslog or you waste time with not shooting at all.

Um I have never heard of nor met anyone who has the passengers snap fire after their transport jinxed. I know there is snap fire after a transport is stunned after a LD test but never after jinx. Jinx applies to the vehicles shooting, not its passengers.

If Im wrong point me to where the rules say the opposite because if so then we all here play it wrong. If it is in some loose faq then no wonder I have missed it.




>heavy support platforms. many players dont play them right. they only have a 24" range with their d cannon templates and are not relentless (only the platforms in guardian >units are). so they are stationary with 24" range... and now when was the 24" range the grey knights have with most weapons counted as "threatening"?

I dont know why you mention the GKs, the army is beyond a joke today down on the levels of orks if even that.



>warp spiders. they where good, they are still good but: the jump when beeing fired at got FAQ'ed to be only once per round aswell. that makes them still good but no longer >broken as they where previously.

I would hardly call them balanced even now after their little nerf.




>wraithknight. yeah definitely undercosted. intimidating, at first. there are currently so many ways to counter them in one round (drop grav cents for example) that >competetive eldar players mostly use 2 if any at all (similar to the issue WHFB had with monsters. go big or go home cause those cannons vaporized one without you beeing >able to do much)

No, that is not a true counter. First of all it is easy for the eldar player to protect the WK against dropped cents but the main thing is that the so called counter to WKs is just extremelly situational and expensive. If the eldar dont bring a WK or the SM player faces hordes or the new stealers then he basically looses on walkover if he brings pod cents.

On the contrary the eldar player will NEVER loose out on taking a WK sicne the rules for gargantual creatures are disgustingly broken.



>that only really leave scatterbikes.

Not really, look above.


>great movement. can move 12" and after firing move back behind cover. have good range with 36" and S6 with 4 shots each for 27 points.
>thats why you mostly see scatterbikes, some wraithknights and almost none scythe guards. warpspiders where once really competetive as a spam army i give you that but >the FAQ cripled them and as that happened, they dissapeared from competetive gaming.


I wouldnt call that "crippled", far from. They are just less broken now and I still see them in competitive games.




>then dont play tiggy. get white scars (so custodes get hit& run) and get 2 additional libbys. 4x 2 rolls on any discipline you want. getting powers off on a 2+. you get what >you want.
>why not sit back and do the math to get the powers you want or simply roll multiple scenarios. you get what you want. you have a up to 32-42" charge range

Because then it is no longer in the competitive ballpark as libby conclaves with no tiggy are useless in that they are far to unreliable to be used, this is true even with Tiggy.



>the cabal has one power which makes the formation not great (the power is good, nontheless) its the option to get 3-5 sorcerors without having to play multiple CADS or >anything like that (so you only have to spend points in the sorcerors, not any cultist tax or anything). the conclave has the same amount of psykers but can get their powers >off on 2+ rather than 4+, which is HUGE. (and they also dont have to pay a unit tax anymore)
>psychic support is big in many top tier list. just because you dont think they are competetive, does not mean they arent. there is massive amounts of proof that psychic >powers are a big choice in army constellation currently.

No and we dont see these conclaves in competitive gaming other then when primaris powers are needed to be relied on. Otherwise nope.




>50 points, can hold up to 20 models inside. up to 4 models can use its firing hatch. AV 14 all around 3(or even 4 not sure right now) HP. they got fortifications on top that >even grant a 4+ cover save for units ontop of it (even wraithknights, lol Very Happy ).

Precisely, the WK only need to dip its toe in a small brush to get a 5+ cover save whereas the dreadnought has to be physically 50% covered to get the same and that is even before the FnP. Fun and balanced?


>building table is immune to immobilized by grav so you are immune to them.

Ah, now it makes sense.

In what book is this bunker and its rules listed in?


>when talking about competetive play, you gotta take it on. if you wanna talk about friendly games it is a different matter. yet i wonder why someone would bring a D spam to >friendly games, if the main objective is to have fun. Wink

True. The one reason I do it is to experiment ways to handle that brokenass shit.

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