New Custodes and Sisters of Silence

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New Custodes and Sisters of Silence

Post by Andarius the Red on Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:24 am

The Burning of Prospero is out and Games Workshop has posted the rules for Sisters of Silence and the Emperor's Custodes on their site here:

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/Datasheets/Burning%20of%20Prospero%20Imperial%20Datasheets.pdf

The Custodes are close combat monsters!!! with artificer armor (BULKY), the eternal warrior rule and the option to switch out their guardian glaive; a +1 str. AP 2 power weapon that can BLOCK melee attacks of all kinds by rolling to hit AGAINST it, with an AP 3 Sentinel Blade and Storm Shield for 10 points!

Both the glaive and sword have a built in Bolt Caster; a 12' ranged Storm Bolter that can make snap-shots on at BS 2.

The Sisters of Silence are very much like the Adepta Sororitas of today but with several key differences. For one they are psychic abominations; any psyker friend or foe within 12' can't use psychic powers on or near them and immediately nullify any current power if they come in range of the sisters (blessings, maledictions, witchfire, nova or beam), do not generate warp charges for their respective warp charge pool and are treated as -3 in leadership... HOLY COW!

Not only that but they get the bane of psykers rule which not only acts as the preferred enemy rule on psykers but grants the sisters precision strike/shot on any enemy unit that has a psyker in it!

Plus they get psyk-out grenades and any sister can switch out their bolter for a flamer for 2 points or an Executioner Greatblade (STR +1, AP 2, two-handed) for FREE!!!
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Re: New Custodes and Sisters of Silence

Post by Aubec le noir on Sat Oct 22, 2016 9:28 am

Holy crap !!  affraid affraid
That's serious rules !!!... especially against us !! affraid
I saw the minis yesterday and they are awesome !! Twisted Evil
I'll buy that box for them and the SW character
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Re: New Custodes and Sisters of Silence

Post by Andarius the Red on Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:30 am

Well for a space marine army (or sisters army) the Sisters of Silence are a pretty good ally. But they would CRIPPLE a Grey Knight army whether as an opponent or not.

No psychic powers, no warp charges, and we'd be treated as LD 6... No thank you.
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Re: New Custodes and Sisters of Silence

Post by Klomster on Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:51 pm

*checks the custodes stat line*

This reminds me of how i've always thought space marine rules have always been misrepresented in the rules.

The custodes stat line fits kinda well of how marines fluff wise should be in the world, the weapons are a bit off, sure, the wargear in general actually. For marines that is.

I don't know of the special rules, but the stat line sounds about right to me.

Also, the sisters of silence are blanks? I didn't know that, interesting.
Considering that, yeah their rules sound reasonable.

As a general tip, don't deploy psykers next to blanks. Just don't. This is how it is in lore and is well represented.
The range of 12" is a bit hefty, but hey, if it was shorter in the game it would seldom have any effect, so i get it.

Is the Culexus assassin worth anything anymore when this unit exists now?
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Re: New Custodes and Sisters of Silence

Post by Aubec le noir on Sun Oct 23, 2016 5:06 am

Custodes for the win !! Twisted Evil
I just love them ! cheers
And Klom... sisters of silence are for 30k only and Culexus for 40k ! Wink
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Re: New Custodes and Sisters of Silence

Post by Klomster on Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:43 am

Ah, i see.

Hmmm, did Culexus exist 30k?
I'm guessing no.
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Re: New Custodes and Sisters of Silence

Post by Andarius the Red on Sun Oct 23, 2016 9:27 am

Yeah... Lore wise (and probably rule wise also) the Custodes and Sisters of Silence can't exist in 40k. The custodies NEVER leave Terra as a force and sadly the sisters are extinct. Having been wiped out in the 32nd Millennium.
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Re: New Custodes and Sisters of Silence

Post by Sai on Tue Oct 25, 2016 6:53 am

A Culexus turns up in the novel Nemesis- they were definitely kicking around.
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Re: New Custodes and Sisters of Silence

Post by Klomster on Wed Oct 26, 2016 6:37 am

Thanks for the info.

It's useful with people who know their shit!
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Re: New Custodes and Sisters of Silence

Post by Andarius the Red on Fri Oct 28, 2016 12:19 pm

GREAT news! GW has made it where Custodes and Sisters CAN be used in 40k as allied task forces.

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/Datasheets/Burning%20of%20Prospero%20Imperial%20Datasheets.pdf
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Re: New Custodes and Sisters of Silence

Post by Klomster on Sat Oct 29, 2016 7:32 pm

Isn't that exactly the same file as the first one?
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Re: New Custodes and Sisters of Silence

Post by Andarius the Red on Sat Oct 29, 2016 10:04 pm

They altered it to have 40k formations. The null-maiden task force and the golden legion task force have been added.
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Re: New Custodes and Sisters of Silence

Post by Klomster on Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:41 am

Ah, ok.

Guess i didn't check it properly.
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Re: New Custodes and Sisters of Silence

Post by Pyriel on Thu Nov 03, 2016 5:25 pm

Custodian formation sucks ass and the sisters one is nothing much although the sisters are somewhat op in themselves.


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Re: New Custodes and Sisters of Silence

Post by Souba on Sun Nov 06, 2016 2:16 pm

Pyriel wrote:Custodian formation sucks ass and the sisters one is nothing much although the sisters are somewhat op in themselves.


the reason for the formation is not to be op or anything, but to play them in regular games without having to play a unbound army.
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Re: New Custodes and Sisters of Silence

Post by Pyriel on Sun Nov 06, 2016 3:55 pm

So you are forced to pay 880 points of custodes not including any upgrades just to get a lousy 5++ save they by all means ought to have gotten in the first place?


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Re: New Custodes and Sisters of Silence

Post by Andarius the Red on Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:39 pm

When you get right down to it, the custodies are the standard space marines of the emperor's personal guard. Yes they have a 2+ save but that's because they ALL have artificer armor, which can be upgraded with a storm shield to grant a 3+ invulnerable save.

If I were to go with a strong formation I'd go with three 5-man squads, with 3 equipped with sentinel blades and storm shields and 2 armed with guardian spears. Maybe have the third squad have a Vexilla for the boost. making it 900 points total.

A HUGE chunk of your point total but lets think about their strengths, these guys are combat monsters! Deep strike them close and get them into assault range and they will never be defeated! 15-20 AP 2&3 attacks per squad WILL DEVESTATE an MEQ opponent.

The only thing they fall short on is anti-tank and monstrous creatures, but that's what the rest of your points should be geared towards.
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Re: New Custodes and Sisters of Silence

Post by Souba on Mon Nov 07, 2016 1:05 pm

Pyriel wrote:So you are forced to pay 880 points of custodes not including any upgrades just to get a lousy 5++ save they by all means ought to have gotten in the first place?


or you simply get a single squad like 10 man with 4 stormshields (3+ invul) 1 banner (+1 A for everyone) and 5 halberds (including sargeant) thats 580 points. use the stormshields to tank and you still got 5 Blocks from the halberds to counter out big damaging weapons.

how about stop beeing so negative about everything and look for possibilities?

a big custodes unit combined with a conclave could be really powerfull, ESPECIALLY with the new powers like electro displacement. which brings you into CC on turn 1
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Re: New Custodes and Sisters of Silence

Post by Pyriel on Tue Nov 08, 2016 10:32 am

IF they get a fast skimmer transport with assault ramp Iīll be convinced, otherwise they are just another point-and-click to-die squad for tau and eldar.

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Re: New Custodes and Sisters of Silence

Post by Souba on Tue Nov 08, 2016 8:07 pm

Pyriel wrote:IF they get a fast skimmer transport with assault ramp Iīll be convinced, otherwise they are just another point-and-click to-die squad for tau and eldar.

current deathstars dont need any vehicle to be transported in. as i said before. the new psychic powers make up for the transport.
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Re: New Custodes and Sisters of Silence

Post by Pyriel on Tue Nov 08, 2016 8:46 pm

Not really. Unless you go with Tigurius and still gamble you basically need to invest another 300 points to maybe get a chance to roll the right psychic power.

Claiming a deathstar is ok based on expensive psychic roll chance is far from an intelligent argument.

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Re: New Custodes and Sisters of Silence

Post by Aubec le noir on Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:02 am

Pyriel wrote:Claiming a deathstar is ok based on expensive psychic roll chance is far from an intelligent argument.

Please i'd like you to keep the discussion gentle !

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Re: New Custodes and Sisters of Silence

Post by Pyriel on Wed Nov 09, 2016 9:33 am

I didnt mean it as an insult or anything degradory, I simply stated that I cannot see any viable, reasonable or even common sense logic in an argument like that. There is nothing wrong or incorrect in calling such an argument not intelligent.

If I am wrong or stupid enough to have missed something obvious then I would expect something solid to straighten my opinion out instead of a 300 point-ish chance roll to maybe get said deathstar to actually work.

Ergo: present me with an intelligent argument solution, I never stated that such does not exist nor ridiculed anyone for trying to show it to me, merely that I cannot find it myself.

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Re: New Custodes and Sisters of Silence

Post by Souba on Wed Nov 09, 2016 6:12 pm

Pyriel wrote:I didnt mean it as an insult or anything degradory, I simply stated that I cannot see any viable, reasonable or even common sense logic in an argument like that. There is nothing wrong or incorrect in calling such an argument not intelligent.

If I am wrong or stupid enough to have missed something obvious then I would expect something solid to straighten my opinion out instead of a 300 point-ish chance roll to maybe get said deathstar to actually work.

Ergo: present me with an intelligent argument solution, I never stated that such does not exist nor ridiculed anyone for trying to show it to me, merely that I cannot find it myself.

first of all, since more than a year all your posts have been nothing but complains. why even post if you dont even seem to care anymore?

but well you want some facts so okay lets get to some facts:

scatterbikes killing a custodes:
you need 13-14 scatterbike shots in order to statistically get off one wound off a custodes. a single custodes has 2 wounds. 2x 13/14 = 26/28 shots.
28 shots, thats 7 scatterbikes. 6-7 scatterbikes cost  162 to 189 points. since 6 scatterbikes is only 24 shots and thats not enough to kill a custodes, we have to go with 7 scatterbikes.
so in order to statistically kill off a single custodes, you spend almost 3.5 times as much points as the custodes, which is 55 points.
That is without any support on the custodes themselves. that is not, in any point efficient and tau got it even worse.

every deathstar works with psychic powers and it does well. there are many variations of deathstars out there currently.

with veil of time you need 56 shots, thats 14 scatterbikes to kill a single custodes, thats 378 points.
with invisibility it takes 54 scatterbike shots in order to take a single wound off a custodes, 108 to kill a custodes. thats 729 points worth of scatterbikes (27).
additional powers can strengthen this even more of course but you get the point i guess.

getting the right powers is simple currently, especially with something like the SM librarian conclave. putting tigurius inside in addition to 2 additional libbys (or more) is rather cheap for the force multiplier it offers. tigurius alone is a almost guaranteed roll on any psychic power you want. the other 2 libbys (or more) have access to the same disciplines as tigurius does, without the reroll though. still they both give you a high chance to multiply your strength even more. couple that with the improved warpcharge roll (up to 2+ if needed) you get what you want off, when you want it to go off.
so you can get mobility easily via electro displacement for instance with the librarians, while tiggi goes for invisibility or with luck invis + displacement aswell.

of course you can still say "but what if i have the first turn" etc etc. well the wall of martyrs imperial bunker, 50 points of pure awesomeness which every major tournament player swears upon.  14AV all around, 3 HP, immune to grav weapons even upgradeable to bring you even closer to the enemy, like exiting your building and moving a swooping 20" from the building to contest (escape hatch) and/or even a single void shield to get some further protection

yes a deathstar is expensive, thats the point of a deathstar. but with mission marker placement you can dominate multiple mission markers at once without giving the enemy a good chance to get things like first blood etc.

it is all statistics, its a dice game and of course it can go worse or even better. thats why you HAVE to use statistics. thats the reason i use them and  all competetive poeple aswell. even the guys of my store. and before you even want to mention that the players at my store are not competetive or have a shitty meta. 3 of them are in ther german ETC team which have won the ETC in this and last year.  even they see the possibilities and start to make some lists with them. the custodes are not to be underestimated, same goes for the sisters of silence (especially with the bunker and escape hatch having a 20" threat range and still having a 12" bubble is nothing to be not afraid off, especially at their cheap point costs.

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Re: New Custodes and Sisters of Silence

Post by Pyriel on Wed Nov 09, 2016 7:50 pm

>first of all, since more than a year all your posts have been nothing but complains.

Your opinion is duly noted.
So how is this..
A: relevant, and B: an argument?



>why even post if you dont even seem to care anymore?

Because reasons. Also, again, irrelevant.
For further in depth explanation do try the PM function.



>but well you want some facts so okay lets get to some facts:

Finally. This will be interesting.



>scatterbikes killing a custodes:
>you need 13-14 scatterbike shots in order to statistically get off one wound off a custodes. a single custodes has 2 wounds. 2x 13/14 = 26/28 shots.
>28 shots, thats 7 scatterbikes. 6-7 scatterbikes cost 162 to 189 points. since 6 scatterbikes is only 24 shots and thats not enough to kill a custodes, we have to go with 7 >scatterbikes.
>so in order to statistically kill off a single custodes, you spend almost 3.5 times as much points as the custodes, which is 55 points.
>That is without any support on the custodes themselves. that is not, in any point efficient and tau got it even worse.

So, cherrypicking one mathammer example? I am still awaiting an intelligent argument.

Besides, I am amazed about the left out examples of tau gargantuals, eldar wriathknights, D-cannon template serpent spams etc, you know, the things that ruin game balancde besides those convenient scatterbikes that you also happen to forget mention have insane mobility and obsec.

Chasing shadows with your 600p stationary deathstar while scatterbikes steal the point game from under your nose is far from any real argument to said discussion/question now isnīt it?

Do it all over and this time try doing it properly.




>every deathstar works with psychic powers and it does well. there are many variations of deathstars out there currently.

Ah, ok. So far so good..



>with veil of time you need 56 shots, thats 14 scatterbikes to kill a single custodes, thats 378 points.
>with invisibility it takes 54 scatterbike shots in order to take a single wound off a custodes, 108 to kill a custodes. thats 729 points worth of scatterbikes (27).
>additional powers can strengthen this even more of course but you get the point i guess.

So still chewing away the scatterbike example but this time with an expensive psychic maybe-roll?
I get it I get it, with lucky psychic rolls even grots can become deathstar gods that break games. Sadly reality doesnt work with expensive psychic chance rolls or else we would de facto have seen tournament OP armies winning in drowes based on 300p librarian conclaves ALL rolling that lucky terrain movement power and that is not happening for a very good reason.

Now I asked for a solution to custodian squads and not of topic irrelevant mathammer examples taken out of the raisin cake that on top of things do not correspond to real tournament play..or even fun gaming for that matter. (of all the youtube batreps I have only ONCE seen a fun game with librarian conclaves rolling insane powers as a means of making things playable and that was 1: Reeces channel and 2: even then NO psychic were made since the chance for that is laughable and the gamers simply picked their powers, thatīs how "reliable" they are.




>getting the right powers is simple currently, especially with something like the SM librarian conclave. putting tigurius inside in addition to 2 additional libbys (or more) is >rather cheap for the force multiplier it offers. tigurius alone is a almost guaranteed roll on any psychic power you want. the other 2 libbys (or more) have access to the same >disciplines as tigurius does, without the reroll though. still they both give you a high chance to multiply your strength even more. couple that with the improved warpcharge >roll (up to 2+ if needed) you get what you want off, when you want it to go off.
>so you can get mobility easily via electro displacement for instance with the librarians, while tiggi goes for invisibility or with luck invis + displacement aswell.

No it is not.
First of all you might be very surprised but far from every one is running Tigurius or even likes using ultramarines.
Secondly it is far from certain or least to say even point efficiont to load up on 300p of librarians just to see IF you might roll that single power needed. I now, I use librarian conclaves all the time because they are insanely FUN. However they are as unpredictable and bound to become point sinks just as much as they roll the exact powers that I need. Again, there is a reason why tournament competitive players never use librarian conclaves in order to make their armies winning based on one or two psychic rolls.



>of course you can still say "but what if i have the first turn" etc etc. well the wall of martyrs imperial bunker, 50 points of pure awesomeness which every major tournament >player swears upon. 14AV all around, 3 HP, immune to grav weapons even upgradeable to bring you even closer to the enemy, like exiting your building and moving a >swooping 20" from the building to contest (escape hatch) and/or even a single void shield to get some further protection

I thought tournament players swore on that pesky void shield thingy all the time. Ooops, now Iīm gettign negative again, my bad:)

But I take your point, Iīll try out the bunker since I never did it before, I like fun games with lots of experimentation. However there are other free of cost things to mend the first-second turn debacle like reserves and deployment. Anyway, this is irrelevant and does not solve my original question.



>yes a deathstar is expensive, thats the point of a deathstar. but with mission marker placement you can dominate multiple mission markers at once without giving the enemy >a good chance to get things like first blood etc.

Sadly far from all of them are even playable today despite their expensive point cost. Oh and try telling that to your custodian squad guarding that nice placed objective marker when they face the usual tau gargantuals.

Although my poit might soon be moot, it all depends weather geedub gets their incompetent asses in gear and mend some of the broken mechanics in 8:ed, like gargantual creatures, vehicles-walkers vs MCs, D weapons, stomps, etc etc.
The game just MIGHT finally end up being far more balanced and enjoyable for a change.



>it is all statistics, its a dice game and of course it can go worse or even better. thats why you HAVE to use statistics. thats the reason i use them and all competetive poeple >aswell. even the guys of my store. and before you even want to mention that the players at my store are not competetive or have a shitty meta. 3 of them are in ther german >ETC team which have won the ETC in this and last year. even they see the possibilities and start to make some lists with them. the custodes are not to be underestimated, >same goes for the sisters of silence (especially with the bunker and escape hatch having a 20" threat range and still having a 12" bubble is nothing to be not afraid off, >especially at their cheap point costs.

No, competitive players dont rely on chance mechanics like hinging their entire army or a 500p+ death star on one or two psychic rolls or else itīs game over.

You mic up compulsory statistics with self imposed statistics. The game IS statistic by nature but this is itīs baseline and affects all players equally. Relying on a crutch such as one psychic roll is no longer covered b the same base line, you are volentarily crippling you by imposing more chance upon your army then the opponent has to deal with and this is why we dont see that in competitive play.





But I agree, custodes just might get a place some there, especially with shared transports and so on, my big complaint was though the lackluster formation they got, it is so badly thought up and underpowered that it actually reeks of grey knights.
..or are you one of those "positive " individuals who refuse to call the GK formation for what it is? The most useless steaming pile of shit in the history of gw formations?


Smile






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