Create-your-own GK Hero

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Create-your-own GK Hero

Post by Spartan on Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:39 pm

Firstly all credit for this goes to raverrn over at the bolter and chainsword forums and I want to say he has something here and if anyone can get it to big wigs at GW please do.

I for one will ask my opo if they will allow it and use it I think if they agree.

So here it is

This has been bugging me ever since Gaius Darius mentioned the idea in the thread here. What if our Grand Masters were as flexible as an Inquisitor & retinue, or a 'nid Carnifex? Let's say you had a basic statline, and chose ways to improve it. Instead of having a too-cheap HQ choice and a too-expensive HQ choice, we could tailor them. I tried to give the idea my own little twist by letting your choices determine your battle history.

Baseline GK Hero:
CODE
Pts WS BS S T W I A Ld
60 5 4 4 4 1 4 3 10


Battle History: A player may choose any number of battle histories for their Grey Knight Hero.
Note: If a cost is listed in slashes, the battle history may be taken multiple times for the costs listed. e.g if a History costs 5/10/15, it may be taken three times for a total of 30 points.

Frenzy Foe Cost: 10/20/30
The Grey Knight hero has fought many times against the servants of Khorne. No mortal man may match their ferocity in battle, but he has learned that a quick blow may end the threat before they can strike. Effect: +1 Initiative.

Stalwart Against Change Cost: 5/10/20
The Grey Knight Hero has faced many servants of Tzeentch (or perhaps the same servants) on scattered battlefields, and he has learned how best to counter their foul sorceries.
Effect: Whenever the Grey Knight Hero rolls for the Aegis, he may add +1 to the roll.

Enemy of Decadence Cost: 10/15/20
The Grey Knight Hero has cast out seductive daemons and cultists of Slaanesh. No claw or blade strikes quicker than theirs, but a quick mind can parry their attacks.
Effect: +1 Weapon Skill

Faithful in Despair Cost: 15/30/45
There are few foes that may stand against one strike from a Nemesis Force Weapon, and chief amongst them are the slaves of Nurgle. When combating such strong foes, the Grey Knight Master has learned to strike quickly and accurately.
Effect: +1 Attack

Master of Arms Cost: 5/10/15
The Hero spend many of his years as part of a Grey Knight Purgation Squad, clearing out lesser foes from a distance. He knows the value of supporting fire.
Effect: +1 Ballistic Skill. If this History is taken three times then any squad the Hero is attached to may fire at up to two different targets in the shooting phase.

Survivor Cost: 10/20/30
The Grey Knight Hero has been wounded in battle multiple times. He has learned to ignore the language of pain through chants and prayers.
Effect: +1 Wound.

Adamantine Persistence Cost: 10/20/30 May Only be selected if 'Fallen' Battle Honor is selected as well.
Dreadnoughts are known for their tenacity, and the Hero is no exception. At times it seems as though he makes his machine move through sheer force of will.
Effect: Once per game (per selection of this ability) the Grey Knight hero may choose to ignore the effects of a glancing or penetrating hit. He may choose to do so after the effect is rolled.

Battle Honors: A player may choose any number of Battle Honors for their Grey Knight Hero

Unstopable Cost: 20
The Grey Knight Hero has fought the enemies of the Imperium for so long he has forgotten how to give up.
Effect: The Hero benefits from the Eternal Warrior special rule.

Leader of Men Cost: 20
The Grey Knights are more than just soldiers - to those that see them they are a symbol of the emperor's might. No Guardsman can look upon a Grey Knight Hero and fear for tomorrow.
Effect: The Grey Knight Hero confers the Fearless rule to any unit he joins. Any friendly unit that must make a morale test within 12" of the Hero may roll twice and use the lowest result.

Master Psyker Cost: 15
They Grey Knight Hero has mastered his potential, turning the powers of the warp against itself.
Effect: The Hero may select one extra psyker power. He may select up to one power from Codex: Space Marines if he so desires.

Psy-Null Cost: 25
The Grey Knight Hero is a psychic null, capable of absorbing any warp-powered directed towards him or any of his companions.
Effect: No psychic powers whatsoever may affect the Hero or any unit he joins, however, neither he nor the units he joins may use any powers of their own. Any time the Hero or his unit is directly targeted by a power, roll a die. On a one the Hero takes a wound with no armor save allowed as the strain takes a toll on him. The Hero may not use a psychic hood.

Hate the Daemon, Kill the Daemon Cost: 10
The Grey Knight Hero's hatred of daemons goes beyond simple hypno-indoctrination. They are an insult to his lord's name, their mere existence a stain on the universe.
Effect: The hero benefits from the Preferred Enemy rule whenever engaging daemons.

Maimed Hero Cost: 25
The Grey Knight Hero has been wounded-severely. The best prosthesises the Imperium could provide have slowed him down - but they have also made him stronger.
Effect: Reduce the Hero's Initiative by 2. Increase his Strength by 1.

Fallen Cost: 70
Not even death has been able to stop the Grey Knight Hero. A mortal wound has left him entombed in a Dreadnought chassis, but still serves the Emperor on the field of battle.
Effect: The Grey Knight Hero is now a Dreadnought. Use the Grey Knight Dreadnought statline from the Heavy Support section. Replace the Weapon Skill, Ballistic Skill, Initiative and Attacks with those of the Hero. The Hero still counts as an HQ choice, but he is no longer an Independent Character. He may not use any psychic powers, but may still benefit from the 'Psy-Null' ability. (Note that he will not take any wounds from using this ability.)

Forceful Strike Cost: 25
The Grey Knight's training with his Nemesis Force Weapon has allowed him to wield it at it's full potential.
Effect: The Grey Knight Hero's Nemesis Force Weapon counts as a Force Weapon in addition to any other effects. Against Daemons instead of Instant Death the Force Weapon causes an additional d3 wounds with no armor saves allowed.

Tempest of Iron Cost: 20
The Grey Knight's Strikes are swift and unrelenting, easily battering through any defense.
Effect: Any rolls of '6' to wound with the Grey Knight's Nemesis Force Weapon ignore any invulnerable save the target may have. In addition, any rolls of '6' to wound a daemon cause 2 wounds instead of one, with saves allowed as normal.

Shatterblow Cost: 20
The Grey Knight has learned how to wield his Nemesis Force Weapon in two hands, to cleave the armor of any treacherous machines he may face.
Effect: When in combat with a vehicle a Grey Knight Hero may choose to use his Nemesis Force Weapon as a Two-Handed weapon. If he does he rolls two dice and adds them together to determine armor penetration. Against Possessed vehicles and vehicles with the 'Daemon' special rule, he may add +1 to his roll on the damage chart.

----------------------------

A Hero who selects 0-4 of these abilities is a Brother-Captain. A Hero who selects 4-8 is a Battle-Captain. A Grey Knight who selects more than eight of these is a Grand Master.

A Brother-Captain counts as an HQ choice for a Grey Knights army.
A Battle-Captain also counts as an HQ choice, but may only be accompanied by another Hero of Brother-Captain rank.
A Grand Master may not be accompanied by any other Grey Knight Heroes.

----------------------------

Yes, you could build a Grand Master that looked something like this:

CODE
Pts WS BS S T W I A Ld
520 8 7 4 4 4 7 6 10


Worth it? Probably not. But in Apocalypse, leading a Redeemer Force? Hell Yes.

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Re: Create-your-own GK Hero

Post by Constantine on Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:20 pm

These "rules" would be great for campaign play!! I'm not sure how well they would go over regularily though. It all comes down to who you play with.

I think that these rules are great and think they would really add a lot of depth to an already rich army.

_________________
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Re: Create-your-own GK Hero

Post by NemesisForce on Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:23 pm

These types of rules really do add a lot of depth, variety and most importantly, fun to an army. At the risk of sounding like a downer, I don't think GW would ever lean to rules with that much choice involved. They seem to want simplify things and make armies more powerful by giving them bigger and badder toys to play with. Some really cool ideas though.

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Re: Create-your-own GK Hero

Post by Constantine on Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:13 am

They seem to want simplify things and make armies more powerful by giving them bigger and badder toys to play with. Some really cool ideas though.

I agree Brother.

I think there are a couple of motivations to this desire.
One is to sell more "bigger and Badder toys", the other is to make sure that the game can be played smoothly without having to refer to special rules avery phase.

I have already copied these rules though, because I think they are great!!! I will definitely be trying to incorporate them in the future.

_________________
+++"There is nothing in the arcane and blasphemous arsenal of the forces of Chaos that can compare to faith. With the power of faith, our weapons become shining instruments of deliverance that can cleave the mightiest daemon in twain. With the power of faith, our minds appear as slivers of pure agony to the daemon, driving into the wretched forms of those who would dare stand before us. With the power of faith, our words become commands that cause the daemon to cower and cringe in terror. I could meet my enemies unarmed without a shred of fear in my chest, for I know that the Emperor watches over me and guides my hand. So let them come. We shall show them what the power of faith can do."+++ (Brother Captain Stern)

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Re: Create-your-own GK Hero

Post by murhe on Sat Aug 02, 2008 10:54 am

HQ Dreadnought character is great idea.

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Re: Create-your-own GK Hero

Post by NemesisForce on Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:56 pm

I agree about the Dread hero. With the strong desire of every Grey Knight to be buried/entombed in death, I think that a fallen Brother who becomes a Dreadnought would have had some above-average quality or ability that would warrant continuing his existence.

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Re: Create-your-own GK Hero

Post by Constantine on Sun Aug 03, 2008 10:08 am

I fully agree Brother Nemisisforce, that is why I think that GK armies with more than 1 Dreadnaught seem wrong to me (unless they are huge armies)

I was thinking about these additional Hero rules. I think that if GW were to begin useing rules like this, the game would regress back to the days when every game would conclude with two characters/Heros going toe to toe because they were all powerfull and all other models had been killed. Not very realistic No

These are great rules but they should be used very spareingly to prevent having super figures on the table.

_________________
+++"There is nothing in the arcane and blasphemous arsenal of the forces of Chaos that can compare to faith. With the power of faith, our weapons become shining instruments of deliverance that can cleave the mightiest daemon in twain. With the power of faith, our minds appear as slivers of pure agony to the daemon, driving into the wretched forms of those who would dare stand before us. With the power of faith, our words become commands that cause the daemon to cower and cringe in terror. I could meet my enemies unarmed without a shred of fear in my chest, for I know that the Emperor watches over me and guides my hand. So let them come. We shall show them what the power of faith can do."+++ (Brother Captain Stern)

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Re: Create-your-own GK Hero

Post by Brother-Captain Validi on Sun Aug 03, 2008 12:15 pm

I like the idea, but I wouldn't use them too often, even with people who would let me (Except my eldar nemesis Twisted Evil ) mainly on the basis that it could be an unfair advantage in some situations.

Most of the ideas there are very good, as it lets you build up a leader of a small strike force, or the leader of a whole army or an inbetween, and with all the different options, you probably won't find many players who would build them the same way. next time I manage to get to my club, I'll try it out with my regular Chaoser if he'll let me (or maybe I'll ally with my Space Wolves in their paper and soda can drop pods and surprise the hell out of the evil Tau guy.)

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Re: Create-your-own GK Hero

Post by Constantine on Sun Aug 03, 2008 12:39 pm

I think that if a club played games in a "DOW, Dark Crusade style" where, as you win battles you gain powers. Then these rules would be good because all players would have access to similar upgrades. Sounds like a cool Campaign idea to me Very Happy

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+++"There is nothing in the arcane and blasphemous arsenal of the forces of Chaos that can compare to faith. With the power of faith, our weapons become shining instruments of deliverance that can cleave the mightiest daemon in twain. With the power of faith, our minds appear as slivers of pure agony to the daemon, driving into the wretched forms of those who would dare stand before us. With the power of faith, our words become commands that cause the daemon to cower and cringe in terror. I could meet my enemies unarmed without a shred of fear in my chest, for I know that the Emperor watches over me and guides my hand. So let them come. We shall show them what the power of faith can do."+++ (Brother Captain Stern)

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Re: Create-your-own GK Hero

Post by Nausaden on Tue Aug 04, 2009 2:16 pm

Awesome rules for a campaign play, I will be bringing these up with a few friends to see if we can incorporate them in some sort of RPG style. Oh, how I wish those rules existed...

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Re: Create-your-own GK Hero

Post by BrotherDvorn on Sat Aug 08, 2009 2:38 pm

These rules are AMAZING brotherI would sertainly consider you creating a campain for GamesWorkshop a Grey Knight versus Deamons campain would be amazing! Twisted Evil

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Re: Create-your-own GK Hero

Post by samuri8000 on Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:06 am

oothis is soo asome im so using this in an apoc game

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Re: Create-your-own GK Hero

Post by MJSwasey on Thu Aug 27, 2009 2:39 pm

I'd be hesitant on using these without some tweaking first. something that stands out to me is taking a GM and giving him 3 extra wounds and eternal warrior for 50 extra points. He could literally just wade forward himself into enemy lines and destroy things. a half point nightbringer, if you will.

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Re: Create-your-own GK Hero

Post by Zealadin on Fri Aug 28, 2009 3:04 am

I remember reading these initially when first posted and the arguement started it was alot more OP then from memory.
It seems more balanced in some respects now and would be an absolutely insane way of creating a hero, but some things need to be tweaked!

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Re: Create-your-own GK Hero

Post by gil galed on Sun Aug 30, 2009 5:11 am

looks really good, i'll certainly have a play around with it, one point though.

Whats the point of the force weapon thing? I like my ignorings EW force weapons

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Re: Create-your-own GK Hero

Post by Zealadin on Sun Aug 30, 2009 5:20 am

Because with the new rules our force weapons won't instant kill eternals whereas that would still be extremely useful maybe? My guess anyway

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Re: Create-your-own GK Hero

Post by Ecideus on Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:24 am

They sound absolutely fantastic, but aren't all Grey Knights psykers? How could the Psychic null work? confused

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Re: Create-your-own GK Hero

Post by Zealadin on Sat Sep 12, 2009 6:15 am

Ecideus wrote:They sound absolutely fantastic, but aren't all Grey Knights psykers? How could the Psychic null work? confused

Its kind of like a Null Rod now, I cant say I find that rule very attractive or well thought out to be honest. It would need to be something that could be toggled on and off at the players choice, lasting till their next turn or something, for that wound to be necessary. I'd personally be more interested in a null rod NFW, minus the stupid take a wound thing, would be a bit more interesting and quite useful.

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Re: Create-your-own GK Hero

Post by Wilmgard on Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:14 pm

I am creating a Dreadnought HQ right now. I am planning to make the Dreadnought resemble a GK is some form.

Anyway the stats:

Venerable Master Rednar

WS 6
BS 5
F 13
S 12
R 11
A 4
I 4

Venerable Ironclad Dreadnought: venerable rule is used

Weapons:

Halberd of Might - Counts as a dreadnought power fist and ignores inval saves (i am not sure if that is fair though)

Heavy Psycannon - A powerful weapon despite it's size. Mounted on a dreadnought power fist, this weapon destroys the enemy even be for Rednar gets to them.

R Str AP Type
36" 6 3 Heavy 3 twin-linked, ignore invals


Special Rules:
Ancient Warrior - Rednar has been around since the Heresy and knows well the ways of war. This confers a 5+ inval save to any penetrating and glancing hits he may sustain.

Armor of Light - Specialized armor created just for Rednar and acts the same as a Grey Knight armor. The following Grey Knight rules apply to him:
Fearless, The Shrouding, Aegis, and Rites of Exorcism.


I already have the arm done with the heavy psycannon.
Any advice for this character would be appreciated.

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Re: Create-your-own GK Hero

Post by Rivan on Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:29 pm

Pretty tough dread. The halberd ignoring invul will never fly, no matter which gaming club you go to. The heavy psycannon is a bit more reasonable.

Not sure if you should make him an iron-clad though. Doesn't really fit our fluff. Still, with him being an venerable iron clad w/ invulnerable saves, his point cost would easily be over 300. I believe Bjorn the Fell-handed is already at almost 300 points and he's not even an iron clad is he?

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Re: Create-your-own GK Hero

Post by Wilmgard on Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:05 pm

ok i knew the halberd would not work. Is their anything special i could add to the halberd?

Bjorn is a iron clad like dreadnought by the way and he does have a inval of 5+. What i meant to say is that the only thing going for the iron-clad is the improved armor which is what any character dreadnought should have over other dreadnoughts. Rednar doesn't have the assault launchers like most ironclads. I have seen iron-clads with out the assault launchers and they are dreadnoughts with better armor and nothing else special.

I was going to use an iron-clad as a base for Rednar and go from there. That is why I am stating iron-clad in the description.

Just curious why an Iron-clad would not fit? Wouldn't a GK dreadnought that could penetrate a citadels walls easily and be bigger to take care of Larger Daemons be good to have?

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Re: Create-your-own GK Hero

Post by NemesisForce on Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:05 pm

I agree with Rivan on the Halberd. Especially if your making the psycannon AP3. With the the 5+ Invulnerable save I think he's looking too much like Bjorn. Perhaps give him a psychic power or two keep it GK fluffy. Hope to see some pics on the cc/psy arm.

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Re: Create-your-own GK Hero

Post by Wilmgard on Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:56 am

psychic powers...I never thought of that. Which ones I don't know. Hammerhand would be out of the question. Maybe Holocaust. I still like the inval and i understand that he is copying Bjorn, so should i make the inval better or take it out. If i take it out I don't know what to add. I was thinking of adding a special attack for the halberd.

Mythic Sweep - Rednar makes a sweeping attack in front of him and destroys his foe even before he even charges. This attack only affects the direction Rednar is facing. Measure out six inches in front of him and make a arc from the center of him from one arm to the other. All units that are hit by the arc are hit by a str 8 and no armor saves allowed. Rednar may then charge only one unit that he hits with this attack.

Well that is an idea for the Halberd special in exchange for the inval.

And just a question is the Deamonhunters dreadnought on the Forge World site larger than a regular Dreadnought, about the size of an iron-clad or is it the same size??

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Re: Create-your-own GK Hero

Post by Rivan on Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:18 pm

The FW GK dread is the same size as a regular dread.

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"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: Create-your-own GK Hero

Post by Wilmgard on Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:00 pm

Ok thanks

I guess i have to use an iron-clad then or would the forge world one be best?

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Re: Create-your-own GK Hero

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