Is Draigowing dead?

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Is Draigowing dead?

Post by Constantine on Sun Aug 24, 2014 3:28 pm


I have read a lot online about how Draigowing is dead due to Draigo not making Pallies troops. What do those terminator lovers among you think of this, and what TDA heavy builds are left open to you now?
I am interested to hear about them.

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Re: Is Draigowing dead?

Post by Souba on Sun Aug 24, 2014 6:57 pm

many people who say that have no idea.

the only thing we actually lost is the fact that paladins lost objective secured. to be precise on this matter however is: we only had it for a very, very short while. now its just as the rest of 7th edition books.

if we compare paladins from then and now:

old codex:
10 paladins even kitted out: 3 hammers, 3 swords, 3 halberds, 4 psycannons, apothecary, banner 730 pts

new codex:
10 paladins kittet out with the very same gear: 3 hammers, 3 swords, 3 halberds, 4 psycannons, apothecary and banner - 711 points

of course you may switch some weapons but overall you will be off cheaper most of the time. thanks to the apothecary change. we however lost the +2 initiative from halberds but yeah times change. the 4++ in close combat with the sword is also gone but: fortitude grants us a 4++ at all times (and draigo a 2++ at that)

how did most play paladins? with a libby and draigo most of the time. this is still possible even when draigo takes up the lord of war slot now. the libby is simply your HQ and good.

while draigo got cheaper he lost 1 point in S and T, which is not that bad, considering he is in a unit of paladins the majority toughnes is 4 anyway. his close combat attacks however got deadlier. from s7 ap 3 to s9 ap 2 with hammerhand is a big change.
he also got gate of infinity from the go. granting that unit of paladins a incredible mobility.

the libby from the old book was 150 points at ML2. now he is 135 points for ML3. giving him the liber daemonica grants him even a extra sanctic power. or even a second one if he is the warlord and you got the result number 6 (dont forget you can reroll) so he can easily roll for telepathy for example to get a good chance at getting invisibility and still getting one or even 2 powers off sanctic.
the biggest change on this department however is the movement from draigo to LoW. thanks to that we are now able to play 2 librarians because they are so cheap anyway. having 2 guys that bless your paladins to insane levels while the paladins and draigo do the work is a big step forward.

there is only one big disatvantage. you have to select one troop unit to get to paladins but: draigo beingt 30 points cheaper and the libby got massively cheaper gives you enough points to put into a strike squad.


i really dont see it that bad as many claim it to be.

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Re: Is Draigowing dead?

Post by Constantine on Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:07 pm

Great response brother, thank you. That really cleared things up for me. Now I need to think how I can switch my army from Mordrak's 2nd Brotherhood to Draigo's first.

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+++"There is nothing in the arcane and blasphemous arsenal of the forces of Chaos that can compare to faith. With the power of faith, our weapons become shining instruments of deliverance that can cleave the mightiest daemon in twain. With the power of faith, our minds appear as slivers of pure agony to the daemon, driving into the wretched forms of those who would dare stand before us. With the power of faith, our words become commands that cause the daemon to cower and cringe in terror. I could meet my enemies unarmed without a shred of fear in my chest, for I know that the Emperor watches over me and guides my hand. So let them come. We shall show them what the power of faith can do."+++ (Brother Captain Stern)

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Re: Is Draigowing dead?

Post by Aubec le noir on Mon Aug 25, 2014 6:22 am

thanks brother Souba !
it was very clear and enlightening ! Wink Razz
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Re: Is Draigowing dead?

Post by SteelTitan on Thu Sep 18, 2014 3:31 pm

I agree with most of what you said and I dont see draigowing being less viable than before. We gained some, we lost some. Your comparisons are a little off though. We are cheaper off now but who used to pay those points for the apothecary? I dont think many people did. Also the change in halberds is quite a big deal.

In a vacuum I would even say Paladins got worse against the same point cost as when the previous dex was released all those years ago. Also the fact that we cant spend a mere 18 points to fill our troop selection blows. On the flipside however we have cheap libbies, a better allround draigo and better dreadknights.

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Re: Is Draigowing dead?

Post by Constantine on Thu Sep 18, 2014 6:39 pm

Great points Brother. I think that you have listed some significant strengths.

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+++"There is nothing in the arcane and blasphemous arsenal of the forces of Chaos that can compare to faith. With the power of faith, our weapons become shining instruments of deliverance that can cleave the mightiest daemon in twain. With the power of faith, our minds appear as slivers of pure agony to the daemon, driving into the wretched forms of those who would dare stand before us. With the power of faith, our words become commands that cause the daemon to cower and cringe in terror. I could meet my enemies unarmed without a shred of fear in my chest, for I know that the Emperor watches over me and guides my hand. So let them come. We shall show them what the power of faith can do."+++ (Brother Captain Stern)

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Re: Is Draigowing dead?

Post by Thunder Shark on Thu Sep 18, 2014 6:56 pm

SteelTitan wrote:

In a vacuum I would even say Paladins got worse against the same point cost as when the previous dex was released all those years ago. Also the fact that we cant spend a mere 18 points to fill our troop selection blows. On the flipside however we have cheap libbies, a better allround draigo and better dreadknights.

I think paladins are still good in small numbers. The lower price of the apothecary helps too. But I would have stick with one squad and have the rest of the 2+ saves be termies. Now Libbies have certainly been improved.

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Re: Is Draigowing dead?

Post by DonFer on Mon Sep 22, 2014 12:01 pm

I would say that Draigo wing is "dead" from the point of view of the typical Darigo wing list in 6th or 5th, that is Draigo and Paladins. You took Draigo to have resilient troops units in the form of Paladins.

As brother Souba stated, Paladins and Draigo are still very good otions in our Codex. heck I belive that Paladis are still one of our best units. They are resilient, and pack a lot of punch in shooting and melee. Draigo got better overall, and is still a powerhouse in melee.

Now the new Draigo wing list will not include full squads of Paladins only, but will make use of all units available in the codex to fully take advantage of Draigo's powers (namely Gate, which IMHO is the best thing that happened to us GK since sliced bread). It will even include Allies. But for sure it will include one or two Paladin squads.

I for one am using Draigo, Paladin squad, NDK, GKT allied with Ultras' Tigurius, Centurions and Sternguards in Drop pod. Really low bodycount but man, they hit like a derailed fright train.

Draigo wing and in general all of our lists have changed and the Changes are good. The way we build lists have changed and I like it a lot.

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Re: Is Draigowing dead?

Post by Maximus on Tue Sep 23, 2014 12:58 am

Souba wrote:many people who say that have no idea.

the only thing we actually lost is the fact that paladins lost objective secured. to be precise on this matter however is: we only had it for a very, very short while. now its just as the rest of 7th edition books.

if we compare paladins from then and now:

old codex:
10 paladins even kitted out: 3 hammers, 3 swords, 3 halberds, 4 psycannons, apothecary, banner 730 pts

new codex:
10 paladins kittet out with the very same gear: 3 hammers, 3 swords, 3 halberds, 4 psycannons, apothecary and banner - 711 points

of course you may switch some weapons but overall you will be off cheaper most of the time. thanks to the apothecary change. we however lost the +2 initiative from halberds but yeah times change. the 4++ in close combat with the sword is also gone but: fortitude grants us a 4++ at all times (and draigo a 2++ at that)

how did most play paladins? with a libby and draigo most of the time. this is still possible even when draigo takes up the lord of war slot now. the libby is simply your HQ and good.

while draigo got cheaper he lost 1 point in S and T, which is not that bad, considering he is in a unit of paladins the majority toughnes is 4 anyway. his close combat attacks however got deadlier. from s7 ap 3 to s9 ap 2 with hammerhand is a big change.
he also got gate of infinity from the go. granting that unit of paladins a incredible mobility.

the libby from the old book was 150 points at ML2. now he is 135 points for ML3. giving him the liber daemonica grants him even a extra sanctic power. or even a second one if he is the warlord and you got the result number 6 (dont forget you can reroll) so he can easily roll for telepathy for example to get a good chance at getting invisibility and still getting one or even 2 powers off sanctic.
the biggest change on this department however is the movement from draigo to LoW. thanks to that we are now able to play 2 librarians because they are so cheap anyway. having 2 guys that bless your paladins to insane levels while the paladins and draigo do the work is a big step forward.

there is only one big disatvantage. you have to select one troop unit to get to paladins but: draigo beingt 30 points cheaper and the libby got massively cheaper gives you enough points to put into a strike squad.


i really dont see it that bad as many claim it to be.

This pretty much reinforces beautifully my point I made in the "New Codex" topic in reply to Pyriel. Thanks Brother Souba, great post here and proves the point that terms like "Grey Knights" and the word "suck" certainly do not coincide within the same sentence.

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Re: Is Draigowing dead?

Post by Asahiro on Tue Sep 23, 2014 2:23 am

I fully support opinion of Brother DonFer, Draigo is not dead and will not be for while. GoI spell is fantastic and he is still THE BEAST in CC. He is perfectly adopted to the environment set up with 7th edition. He really suits description of Supreme Grand Master of GK chapter - very strong fighter, very able support unit and in many cases only available means of delivering deadly cargo around the table.
Only downside I see is that he is now in section "Lords of War" and as such is banned in some games, but well, it is the price I´m happy to pay since in 99 % of games I play, Lords of War are allowed. He is auto-include in my lists just as NDKs Very Happy .

3 Dev-cents star with Draigo is cheese option Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy.. it is unbelievable how much destruction this particular unit can do, especially when they are using Ultramarines tactics and grav weapons with grav-amps and they are supported by pair of NDK...  sometimes I´m very tempted to look for some allies, just like SM, and build list like that  Embarassed  Embarassed  (well I have to confess that I wrote one list for 1850 pts with SM allies in secret and now  it is safely kept in my vault guarded by band of purifiers), but as I wrote previously, I´m puritan GK player and I´m trying to find all sources in our Codex cheers  cheers .

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Re: Is Draigowing dead?

Post by DonFer on Tue Sep 23, 2014 6:49 am

I too like to play pure GK, but I came to realize that GK lack of reliable Armour control (perticularly Meltas). We had cheap meltas with Inq. but now they're gone. I was considering using the NSF degtachement, but needed some melta support so I was looking at Iron Hands drop pods with Sternguards. And then Brother Souba came with the idea of using Tigurius and Centurions. So there you go.

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Re: Is Draigowing dead?

Post by Thunder Shark on Tue Sep 23, 2014 7:15 am

DonFer wrote:I too like to play pure GK, but I came to realize that GK lack of reliable Armour control (perticularly Meltas). We had cheap meltas with Inq. but now they're gone. I was considering using the NSF degtachement, but needed some melta support so I was looking at Iron Hands drop pods with Sternguards. And then Brother Souba came with the idea of using Tigurius and Centurions. So there you go.


I will always miss the Iuq it made the Grey Knight more diverse now they feel like another space marine chapter rather than part of the inquisition.

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Re: Is Draigowing dead?

Post by Asahiro on Tue Sep 23, 2014 1:29 pm

You are right, brother Thunder Shark. We all miss them. But they are gone and we have to look for alternatives.

To brother DonFer - I really like your list with SM allies presented in other section.. you know that Laughing .. Let´s see how it performs.

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Re: Is Draigowing dead?

Post by Corennus on Wed Sep 24, 2014 6:16 am

I just got used to the old codex and now there's a new one. I'm starting to hate this hobby

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Re: Is Draigowing dead?

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