Dreadknights (the best setup)

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Dreadknights (the best setup)

Post by first strike on Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:58 pm

As it has always been with the game of 40K there is always going to be codex creep. (where a good codex slowly loses power as the next codex comes out and then the next and so on) also as a new codex comes out weapons which were usefull before become less so with new armies and builds and ones considered of little use become better.
So I would like to have a rethink of the Dreadkinght.
Will be spending the next couple of months playing games with this unit and deciding on what is the best config for it.
I think most will agree that 2 is better then one if playing in games of 1500pts or higher. Below this it is better to take one or none. (they will be costing 160pts min)
So what I will be looking at is what weapon mix delivers the best results for the points spent.
Will be starting with 2 dreadknights at 1850pts. Armed with psilencer and warp jump.
The psilancer has always been considered the lesser weapon to the others, but with the tyranids becoming a swarm army with little armour could this change things? Deamons can also offer strong builds so does this facter into the decission on takeing this weapon. Eldar are also in there with T3 and 4+ armour so does the S4 of the psilencer become more of a factor. There is also the issue of range. 24" of the psilencer to the 12" plus 8" of the flamer, nobody wants to be just hitting one model with the flamer so you can say the range of the flamer is realy 12" and this leaves you to be counter assulted and tied down by hoard units.
Have run Dreadkinghts with the psi cannon and found it to be suboptimal, the flamer was the better choice. Cheeper and hits more.
Warp jump is great, but do you need it?  Expensive (almost the cost of half the dreadkinght at base cost). For the same points I can include a vindicare assassian and still have change (the cost of both dreadkinghts having the warp jump).
If runing a flamer then I would say yes, but with the psi lencer is it realy needed?
It is expensive and with the codex sliping against the newer ones we need all the points we can get.
Sword, great item but again is it needed?
Ws 5 and St 10 should be enough to get us there. Again it will come down to points and what they can be spent on in the rest of the army.
As I type this out I also start thinking, could it be usefull to have the psicannon and the psilencer without the warp jump. Both are 24" and will be effective against all foot troops.
Maybe this would be a better setup?
Should I test this first?
I think I will. It will give me the ability to get some usefull items in the rest of my list.
First Test game will be Tuesday afternoon and will give feed back after this

first strike
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Re: Dreadknights (the best setup)

Post by first strike on Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:19 pm

So first test game down, mixed deathwing/ravenwing. Have to say they went well accounting for many ravenwing bikes and their master on jetbike. Did not miss the extra movement as I had good range against this type of army so more testing is needed.

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Re: Dreadknights (the best setup)

Post by Corennus on Thu Feb 20, 2014 4:22 am

Warp Jump is expensive, especially as you can already deepstrike to start with, but it's a good gimmick (along with Mordrak you can make a good alpha strike list).

Psycannon......I hate it. it's too expensive and scatters too easily. Incinerator is best IMO.

Psilencer pumps a good amount of shots, with many opponents now having less armour saves (tyranids hello) but also good for when you have an armoured opponent (say 3+) cause odds are they won't pass every armour save.

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Re: Dreadknights (the best setup)

Post by Sai on Thu Feb 20, 2014 4:47 am

Against some armies the warp jump is actually quite effectives as a way to 'escape.' I was playing a tyranid army on Tuesday: I used the 'normal' jump pack moves from my interceptors and dreadknight to close the distance and light up the lead gant squads with incinerators and stormbolters, and then leapt 30" back when they looked to be overrun. I think this contributed to me only losing 7 infantry in the entire battle while wiping out the enemy.

For me the personal teleporter isn't about the 30" move as much as it is about the 12" every turn. I can keep it behind my terminators and jump forward to charge nasty things or generally bounce around setting fire to flanking forces.

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Re: Dreadknights (the best setup)

Post by first strike on Thu Feb 20, 2014 6:19 pm

True, but the warp jump is mainly uesd in combo with the incin where you are looking to get close and then get away, when you are staying (or at least trying to stay) at 24" then it gets expensive. On 2 dreadknights you need to realy look at where else you can spend those points and still get the job done.

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Re: Dreadknights (the best setup)

Post by Sai on Fri Feb 21, 2014 4:20 am

I'd rather have a dreadknight paired with an interceptor squad than two dreadknights. They both move swiftly, they cover each other's weaknesses and in Big Guns Never Tire and The Scouring they can can claim objectives.
At the same time they don't have to work together, they're not relying on synergy provided by special rules, they are just mutually supporting each other.

If you want to stay at range they can take psycannons/gatling psilencers and dance around at 24" like an eldar force. If you want to KILL IT WITH FIRE which is my preference the dreadknight will almost never be caught in close combat because of the infantry screen.

Something to bear in mind with the dreadknight's psilencer is that it's a character and so makes precision shots, which could be quite handy against some armies. Killing icon bearers, powerfists and meltaguns is always handy.

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Re: Dreadknights (the best setup)

Post by Andarius the Red on Sat Feb 22, 2014 6:56 am

I've been using the heavy psycannon for over a year now and I love the thing, granted I set up my army where such a problem as scattering is a null issue. The Librarian and Grand Master can take up to 3 servo-skulls, each one cuts the scattering distance of deep striking and template weapons in half provided the action is within 12 inches of a skull.

I place my servo-skulls mid-board so that by the time the enemy is close enough to remove a skull from the board, I'm already within assault range myself

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Re: Dreadknights (the best setup)

Post by Constantine on Sat Feb 22, 2014 8:55 am

I think that one of the strength of the NDKdoes not lie in ant particular build, but instead in its diversity.

Even within this thread there have been several sound builds identified, and the NDK's ability to adapt to multiple scenarios, foes, and play styles has been highlighted.

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Re: Dreadknights (the best setup)

Post by Andarius the Red on Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:49 am

I've been looking at the Gatling Psilencer after my tournament over the weekend, although not as hard hitting as the Heavy Incinerator or Psycannon it guarantees 12 shots and over watch protection in case of being assaulted, my only misgiving is it only has a 12 inch range which means you'd have to be PRETTY close to do any kind of mass shooting.

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Re: Dreadknights (the best setup)

Post by Constantine on Mon Feb 24, 2014 3:13 pm

Andarius the Red wrote:I've been looking at the Gatling Psilencer after my tournament over the weekend, although not as hard hitting as the Heavy Incinerator or Psycannon it guarantees 12 shots and over watch protection in case of being assaulted, my only misgiving is it only has a 12 inch range which means you'd have to be PRETTY close to do any kind of mass shooting.

Would equipping a personal teleporter with the Psilencer remedy this concern for you Brother? You could hop in and out of firing range.

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Re: Dreadknights (the best setup)

Post by Andarius the Red on Mon Feb 24, 2014 7:53 pm

The Dreadknight can naturally deep strike like all grey knights in our codex, just keep him reserve until an opening appears than slam him close into enemy lines, if he survives the enemy salvo he'll just walk through the opposition unimpeded.

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Re: Dreadknights (the best setup)

Post by Constantine on Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:52 pm

Andarius the Red wrote:The Dreadknight can naturally deep strike like all grey knights in our codex, just keep him reserve until an opening appears than slam him close into enemy lines, if he survives the enemy salvo he'll just walk through the opposition unimpeded.

Wouldn't having a PT be more practical in that he could be used for more than one strategy?

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Re: Dreadknights (the best setup)

Post by Andarius the Red on Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:08 pm

It would but the upgrade is quite expensive and I field 2 dread knights in my army, to equip them both I'd have to remove a squad worth of knights just so they'd both get the personal teleporter.

Still... I love a good challenge.

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Re: Dreadknights (the best setup)

Post by Constantine on Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:07 am

Those damn points! Always getting in the way of our fun.

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Re: Dreadknights (the best setup)

Post by first strike on Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:55 pm

Andarius the Red wrote:I've been looking at the Gatling Psilencer after my tournament over the weekend, although not as hard hitting as the Heavy Incinerator or Psycannon it guarantees 12 shots and over watch protection in case of being assaulted, my only misgiving is it only has a 12 inch range which means you'd have to be PRETTY close to do any kind of mass shooting.

Sorry no, the psilencer has a 24" range, not 12". This makes it a perfect combo with the heavy psi cannon. Both have 24" range and both are great for killing large units.

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Re: Dreadknights (the best setup)

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