Psycannon Justicar, What do you think?

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Psycannon Justicar, What do you think?

Post by hunter on Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:46 pm

This is an extenction of several FAQ's and tactica (Several I've read there)

Replacing a justicar's storm bolter with a Psycannon while keeping his nemesis weapon.

Now he's going to cost 30 Pts more and will lose one attack BUT this would give 3 Psycannon in one troop choice and still come out swighing with 2 powerweapon hits.

I am asking my battlebrothers for advice for I have an unfinished pgk with Psycannon on my desk, a little greenstuff and some bits and he makes a fine justicar.

Should I do it or would it be the waste of my time and a model?
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Re: Psycannon Justicar, What do you think?

Post by Aeddon on Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:48 pm

Only Terminators can use both a psycannon while keeping their nemesis weapon. With the regular grey knights it's one or the other. Save your model brother.

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Re: Psycannon Justicar, What do you think?

Post by Constantine on Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:49 pm

Replacing a justicar's storm bolter with a psicannon while keeping his nemesis weapon .

This was a good question Brother Hunter, and it opens the door for me to ask a question that has been on my mind for a while.

I have modeled a GK Terminator (Brother Stern) to be holding a Halberd two handed, which I love the looks of. However he retained his Storm Bolter which means he doesn't have a Psycannon Sad

Is this a big deal? Just about every list I see has a Brother Captain or GM with a Psycannon.

What are the pro's and con's of my situation?

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Re: Psycannon Justicar, What do you think?

Post by Aeddon on Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:54 pm

GM benefits from the added BS which is why people put the psycannon or incinerator on them. You could always modify the model that you have to include a different weapon.

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Re: Psycannon Justicar, What do you think?

Post by hunter on Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:33 pm

as i enterpred the rules , a modle can have 2 weapons on it so replasing the justicar's storm bolter for a psicannon while retaning his nemesis weapon for close encounters.

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Re: Psycannon Justicar, What do you think?

Post by Aeddon on Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:39 pm

Only the Terminators can have both at once. Look on page 29 0f the rule book. Grey Knights must exchange both of their weapons to take either psycannons or incinerators.

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Re: Psycannon Justicar, What do you think?

Post by Constantine on Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:44 pm

Can't you take Psycannon rounds for a storm bolter?
Is that a viable option?

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Re: Psycannon Justicar, What do you think?

Post by Aeddon on Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:01 pm

Yes, psycannon bolts can be taken and that will allow you to keep your nemesis weapon but you also keep the 24" range and it remains an assault 2 weapon.


Last edited by Aeddon on Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:04 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : correction)

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Re: Psycannon Justicar, What do you think?

Post by Constantine on Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:24 pm

I think I will stick with the Psybolt option for my Grey Knight Terminator Captain. I really don't want to risk wrecking the conversion job I have done.
Also I could Give Psycannons to the Justicar and one other Terminator in the squad right?

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Re: Psycannon Justicar, What do you think?

Post by Aeddon on Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:32 pm

Two of the Grey Knights may have their weapons exchanged for psycannons or incinerators and one of the Terminators may exchange their stormbolter for a psycannon or incinerator. Any of the may take psycannon bolts.

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Re: Psycannon Justicar, What do you think?

Post by NemesisForce on Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:25 am

Don't waste the Justicars 3 power-weapon attacks for a psycannon. It's just not worth it. I'm really finding out lately that just one of my incinerators alone is doing more casualties in one game than all my psycannons put together. I have a pc on my Brother-Captain and was thinking of giving one to one of my Termies as well, but game in and game out my 'cinnie Termie has rocked. Tonite he almost single-handedly took out two full Daemon units.

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Re: Psycannon Justicar, What do you think?

Post by Brother-Captain Validi on Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:06 am

I don't think that you can give PAGK weapons asequipment, wargear is fine, but no weapons unless it's in the squad option...

Yeah, it says in my version of the codex, in the armoury, "Grey Knights in power armour may only choose items from the wargear list, they are well trained in the blessed weaponry of their order and are forbidden to use lesser items."

Although the last part of the sentence implies that Psycannons and Incinerators would be okay (Chapter equipment and all that), the first part is pretty clear to me. You can still , of course, give weapons to Brother-Captains and Grand Masters.

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Re: Psycannon Justicar, What do you think?

Post by SIRSEAN on Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:49 am

wait a minute, brothers!

Now, I have a lot of questions:

-If you use a psycannon, you lose your nemesis weapon attacks?

-so, if is true, the model who has a psycannon, only has 1 attack, and 2 when charges, but, without the +2 bonus?

-or, I hope, is like any other GK?

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Re: Psycannon Justicar, What do you think?

Post by Constantine on Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:56 am

I am also getting confused. I am refering to a GK Terminator squad, not PAKGs. I will retain my power weapon attacks on a Terminator Justicar with a Psycannon right?

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Re: Psycannon Justicar, What do you think?

Post by murhe on Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:27 pm

Justicar may have nemesis force weapon and psycannon!

As stated in pg 16, Grey Knights in power armour may only choose items from the Wargear list...

If you buy a Terminator Armour, an Artificier Armor or a Carapase for Justicar, you will be able to buy also weapons. This means 5 - 20 pts extra cost for Psycannon.

Nemesis force weapon is one handed weapon (see description in pg 18) so you can have two handed weapon like storm bolter or psycannon with it. Least you could in 4th edition. I haven't seen rules of 5th edition.

Hunter, you can buy psycannon for your Justicars. It only costs 35, 45 or 50 pts. I cannot say it is worth of it.

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Re: Psycannon Justicar, What do you think?

Post by Brother-Captain Validi on Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:53 pm

Awesome way to bend the rules!

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Re: Psycannon Justicar, What do you think?

Post by Constantine on Sat Jul 19, 2008 2:55 pm

Do you think for gameing/modeling purposes you could leave a Storm Bolter on a Terminator and say that it is a mastercrafted Psycannon (re-roll misses) ? scratch

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Re: Psycannon Justicar, What do you think?

Post by hunter on Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:56 pm

murhe wrote:Justicar may have nemesis force weapon and psycannon!

As stated in pg 16, Grey Knights in power armour may only choose items from the Wargear list...

If you buy a Terminator Armour, an Artificier Armor or a Carapase for Justicar, you will be able to buy also weapons. This means 5 - 20 pts extra cost for Psycannon.

Nemesis force weapon is one handed weapon (see description in pg 18) so you can have two handed weapon like storm bolter or psycannon with it. Least you could in 4th edition. I haven't seen rules of 5th edition.

Hunter, you can buy psycannon for your Justicars. It only costs 35, 45 or 50 pts. I cannot say it is worth of it.

well the listing on page 16 clinches it , i cant give a justicar a psicannon

my original plan was to use a unit of pgk to guard /protect my objective . might as well give that unit 2 psicannons , giving the justicar a psicannon would have raised it to 3 .

cmom you would think twice befor trying to take the objective from a bunch of irate gray gnights , tomany pointy things.

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Re: Psycannon Justicar, What do you think?

Post by Aeddon on Sat Jul 19, 2008 6:05 pm

murhe wrote:Justicar may have nemesis force weapon and psycannon!

As stated in pg 16, Grey Knights in power armour may only choose items from the Wargear list...

If you buy a Terminator Armour, an Artificier Armor or a Carapase for Justicar, you will be able to buy also weapons. This means 5 - 20 pts extra cost for Psycannon.

Nemesis force weapon is one handed weapon (see description in pg 18) so you can have two handed weapon like storm bolter or psycannon with it. Least you could in 4th edition. I haven't seen rules of 5th edition.

Hunter, you can buy psycannon for your Justicars. It only costs 35, 45 or 50 pts. I cannot say it is worth of it.
Justicar in Terminator armour leading a regular Grey Knight squad? Has anyone fielded that before? I'm interested to know how affective it is.

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Re: Psycannon Justicar, What do you think?

Post by murhe on Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:51 am

Actually you can't give Terminator armour (they are only for inquisitors). Sorry for mistake. Artificier Armor and Carapase are legal.

Pg 16 does not prevent you to take psycannon for GK (Justicar, BC or GM) IF he does _not wear Power Armor_. This means you are allowed to take weapons if Justicar takes and uses Carapase or Artificier armor.

You could also exchange Justicar's Nemesis Force Weapon and Storm Bolter for Incinerator or Psycannon, but there is pointless.

My native language is not english, but I have undestood, side note "*" does not mean that only Terminators may use these weapons. I have undestood that Terminators may only use these. (Terminator may not use Hellpistol, because it is probably too small. Lighting claws are usable by Inquisitors, GK Justicars, IST Veterans and models wearing Terminator armor if they have acces tor armoury. Chainfist is Terminator only item)

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Re: Psycannon Justicar, What do you think?

Post by Snowfire on Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:05 am

Ok guys, time for the final word on this problem - Justicars with Psycannons - Answer is NO from GW.

Page 16 states that Grey Knights in Power Armour may only choose items from the Wargear list.

In the list underneath, Wargear covers Artificer Armour to Unguents of Warding. One and Two handed weapons are not wargear, and so are unable to be changed on the Justicar. A pain I know, but thats the rules for it.

@ murhe - Good clarification on the weapons and wargear that terminators can use. Nice job.

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Re: Psycannon Justicar, What do you think?

Post by murhe on Sun Jul 20, 2008 1:38 pm

According Codex Daemonhunters it is possible to have Justicars with Psycannons.

Justicar is entitled to use Armoury (pg. 29, character). GK in PA restriction does not apply after AA or Carapase is taken for Justicar. This means almost full armoury with weapons.

Previous works vice versa if you want for some reason to take a Power Armor for GK hero. BC or GM looses ability to use anything exept wargear.

Also in Troops section it is said that two models may exchange their weapons for Psycannon or Incinerator. Justicar is also a model.

Rules are as they are writed down or agreed between players. Not as they are meant originally. I cannot remember there were any changes in official FAQ's of 4th or 5th edition.

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Re: Psycannon Justicar, What do you think?

Post by hunter on Sun Jul 20, 2008 3:30 pm

alowd or not , the cost/firepower trade off is not worth it for my army list.

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Re: Psycannon Justicar, What do you think?

Post by Aeddon on Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:07 pm

Yes but while they can take psycannons it is a waste. You get no bonuses to BS from your Justicar so it makes no sense to give it to him as opposed to a regular Battle-Brother. On top of that your Justicar is the only member of that team who gets a Power Weapon for free. So you give him a psycannon for what, fluff reasons? Not worth it. Not to mention the extra attack that the Justicar gets is seriously degraded if you take away his power weapon. Sorry, I just don't see the point in giving him one.

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Re: Psycannon Justicar, What do you think?

Post by murhe on Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:15 am

Nemesis power weapon is lost only if you exchange weapons.
Non PA Justicars keeps Nemesis Force Weapon.

And I totally agree, there are no point to take psycannon for Justicar. It is overprized already and you need to pay extra to get rid of PA. Taking better Artificier Armor does not give any benefit and taking Carapase seems just silly.

It is still possible.

If you want 3rd psycannon for your knights, take elite inquisitor with psycannon and keep him with GK or use purgation squads.

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Re: Psycannon Justicar, What do you think?

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