The end of GW ??

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The end of GW ??

Post by Aubec le noir on Sat Feb 01, 2014 4:35 am

brothers, did you heard about the big fall of GW stock actions (-24%, that is a fact) and the rumours about GW being soon bought by Hasbro ??
it's a serious rumour around here, and all the managers are summoned in England for a big CEO statement in march... affraidaffraid
the european HQs are deleted, they just keep the english and american HQs, and the new publications aren't translated anymore... in italian and german anyway !! affraid
they are published in 3 idiomas : english, french and spanish (not sure about the third)
so this could be the final end of the Hobby as we know it ... i'm a little bit concerned !! affraid
what do you think ?
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Re: The end of GW ??

Post by Alladin the Paladin on Sat Feb 01, 2014 7:26 am

If they are bought it shouldn't hopefully change much... They will still keep the games intact, just manage them differently.

Considering how many out there hate GW and their policies, a change in management would likely be welcome for the majority of gamers...

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Re: The end of GW ??

Post by Constantine on Sat Feb 01, 2014 7:54 am

The ways things have been run by GW has been crappy IMHO. I am not surprised to hear that they are in trouble. We have all been talking about how GW's practices are making the hobby elitist and discouraging to new commers.

I am not worried. Things may even become realistically priced!!!

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Re: The end of GW ??

Post by Aubec le noir on Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:59 am

my only hope the return of the metal !! Twisted EvilTwisted EvilRazzRazz
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Re: The end of GW ??

Post by Constantine on Sat Feb 01, 2014 6:43 pm

That and the promotion of plastic over resin.

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Re: The end of GW ??

Post by elugin on Sat Feb 01, 2014 7:09 pm

I have mixed feelings about it (provided that it is true). Hasbro also bought Wizards of the Coast and card games are still doing great. On the other hand they let them mess up with D&D...

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Re: The end of GW ??

Post by Thraxdown on Sun Feb 02, 2014 2:51 pm

I don't hate GW like a lot of people. There's things they do I disagree with, but for the most part it's a company that makes a fun game I enjoy playing, with models I enjoy putting together and painting. Their prices are too high, some of their rules are not clear enough. But I enjoy almost every game.

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Re: The end of GW ??

Post by first strike on Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:14 pm

I already deal with both groups now so it will not be a big change if any. It is only if they start trying to play with the way them game works there could be problems. I heard rumours of this over a year ago so time will tell.

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Re: The end of GW ??

Post by Rion on Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:54 pm

...not sure how I feel about this. It could go bad or great

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Re: The end of GW ??

Post by Aubec le noir on Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:30 pm

We don't hate GW, i don't anyway, but as geeks, We are very demanding with our favorite hobby and imho, as a Citadel 30-years collector i don't like what they made of the Hobby and of the models that were always attached with it !
And the perspective of another marketing policy shift worries me and make me shiver !! paleaffraid
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Re: The end of GW ??

Post by Klomster on Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:34 pm

Regardless of what happens.

Gw needs a fluff meister.
Someone who goes through all fluff, ALL FLUFF!

And create a final and detailed article (probably not published) and act as a supreme master of fluff.
He is to make sure there are no irregularities, and to keep weird loopholes out of the picture.

Right now, it's all broken.
Current Necrons and mechanicus anyone? That was some core fluff in the 40k world, and they ruined it.

It doesn't work anymore.
If you go with the codex, a horus heresy book (which IIRC are canon fluff) doesn't work.

Privateer press has such a person for warmachine and that world has no loops and plot holes. NONE!


So i just sort of hope hasbro and/or a new Ceo takes over. Gets Gw's shit together and fix their broken fluff.

Grey knights whom have great feasts? Aint got no time for that!

A deamon in previously mentioned feast hall? No..... simply NO!

Necrontyr killed the c'tans and formed empires? Wut? I thought this was 40k, not WFB, i want NECRONS, not tomb kings whom happen to be in space.
And what about mechanicus? The void dragon is important fluff? How did they kill the void dragon? On mars! MARS! Second in power only to sacred TERRA!
Not to mention callidus assassins who have even harder to explain their weapons than before.


And apart from the obvious fluff problems, Gw's models are getting more and more dull.
Sure, the casting quality is great. The plastic rarely have any bubbles ever, and the details are always sharp.

But their choices in sculpting!
For one, the models are simple. And often have unrealistic poses that look uncomfortable.
Rarely i've seen a gw model with a two-handed weapon that don't look like it is shitting its pants.

And more disturbing. "Multipart models."
Sure, the models have several parts, legs arms head. Great.
Too bad there isn't ANY customizeability unless you start some heavy converting.
With two-handed weapon models i understand. The models need to go together, sure.

But some are so unwarranted.
Every model usually have a set option of parts that need to go on it.
And i'm not speaking of "arms, head, leg & torso." I'm speaking of "This torso goes with this and this arm, you can at times have an option for a second right arm, there is this particular pair of legs that go on this torso as well. Oh, and we made the legs seperate because more parts is better."

WTF?
And WFB is even worse here.
Every single model is like above mentioned premade for a specific pose. But all the poses are "dramatic" and "dynamic" yeah, great. Let's try to use it in the fucking game it was designed for. Oh wait, I CAN'T!!!
Because of all the bullshit poses, that repeat every 4 models unless i convert.

This was the reason we stopped doing metal, because of limited poses.
Metal is great but in a squad pack you cannot realistically have 20 different poses.
That's why plastic was so great! Now you can customize every single dude, and have rather little repetition without converting.

But now we are going closer and closer to that old problem. Repetition.

I'd rather see every dude in a warhammer boxed regiment with basically the same pose.
Let's take pikemen. 2 poses, perhaps 3 will make the best pike block.
With added command dudes of course, a separate upgrade sprue, as is actually common now.
We want carrying the pike normal pose, and pointing the pike forward pose (not exactly forward but you get it) we could have slightly lowered pike as well.

Now you think "But that will look repetitive" and yes, it will to an extent, the part we WANT to look repetitive is there, the loads of dude in formation part.
For you see, every basic pose has several bodies.
Like 4 torsos, 6 arm pairs and 10+ heads, plus accesories.
A pike formation made with this kind of approach will look great, and diverse.

And let's compare this what we actually have.

Empire halbardiers.
They have what? 3 types of legs, a couple of torsos and a few arms? Good.
But the poses? What are they doing?
They are certainly not in a formation (plus they are crappily designed) so they look like rabble who got hold of some random weapons.
But they are not rabble with random weapons, they are trained troops.

And black orks are another fun example.
We have.
Black ork with a huge axe held in right arm.
An ork with two small axes in a rested position.
Arms flailing high.

And that's basically it.
Not only is the poses repetitive, but they are impossible to get into a formation as well.


I think Gw is too scared of being boring, so they make every single one of their models in a completely ridiculous pose that is "dynamic" and keep it at that.

This works better in 40k, or if you'd use WFB models for a skirmish game.
Since every model is then its own piece, but even in 40k some units looks like some sort of huddled together band of peasants, and that is when they are space marines.


Actually, the older boxes of 40k orks (where the shootas were loose and had their grips) were the best box set for what they wanted. And what i mean.

There are 4 legs, and like 6 different torsos.
And loads of heads and gubbinz.
EVERY WEAPON can be added to every torso without problem.

All the orks will have a slightly reminisent pose as all the other orks with the same weapon types, so they look like they are doing the same thing. But even when the entire unit of shootas is assembled, the unit is not repetitive.
It looks like a mob of ork shootas, that are doing the same thing.

It is the slight variations and different parts for the same poses that does it.
Now imagine all those variations, but with the pikemen!
It would be a cool squad.

I am rambling.

Even space marines could do with a bit less premade "dynamic" poses, and back with more of the build your own pose thing.
I loved getting the arms and carefully posing the bolter so that the marine was aiming, or scouting. Or just throwing a spare bolter on the ground without having to add a grip to it.

And 40k imperial troops lack a crucial part. Every pack almost.
Kneeling legs. And not just one every package. Make it so you can assemble half the frikkin squad kneeling.

Oh no, there is a few to many legs in the box?
I guess people will think you are stupid now?

NO, people love getting extra bits and pieces. Espescially bodyparts.

I remember when the sanguinary guards came out. Really cool models, BUT, the first time i truly noticed these troubles.
I got to assemble them first hand and paint the store promo squad (lucky me!)

And they were nice models, cool poses and such.
But they were not doing the same thing. One was hovering gently,one was just landing, a couple was standing on the ground and one was just mucking about.

And not a single bodypart was left over. I was extra bummed out by this since my "payment" for doing this was getting the extra bits, and of course the honor of getting a first hand look.

But a pair of pistols and some random blood angels jewel junk wasn't all to exciting, espescially since i went all out making the promo squad pretty so a lot of the gubbinz went there.

The box would have been better if there was flying legs and on the ground legs for all of them.
A few extra weapon choices, like all being able to have the same kind of weapon is a start (which they couldn't). And perhaps an extra blingy jump pack or something so you could mix up the squad or convert a commander yourself.

But no, the bare necessities and some jewels and grenades as the only addons.
That's a bit cheap.

I have raged for quite some time now, but i like raging, particularily when i make such intelligent posts.
You don't find my posts intelligent?

-Well you little shits i will.......... *Edited out*..... and fillet your hearts!! I'm GONNA FEED ON YOUR.......... *Post terminated by order of the inquisition.*

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Re: The end of GW ??

Post by Sai on Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:45 am

You're too upbeat. I wouldn't say the plastic details are always sharp- look at the faces on the new Hobbit models.

I went to a local model shop to pick up stronghold assault, saw it was 20 for a handful of useful pages, and bought a copy of Bolt Action instead for 25.

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Re: The end of GW ??

Post by Klomster on Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:01 pm

True, but generally Gw has good quality.

LOTR can be tragic at times but they are generally nice.

And prices, nah, i'm not gonna go in on that, you already know that one.

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Re: The end of GW ??

Post by Andarius the Red on Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:05 pm

Fluff is subjective depending on the version of the game you refer to.

When Necrons first came about they were an experiment to see if they could be a playable army since the earliest renditions of them were die-cast model squads that could appear in an army much like the Legion of the Damned or Grey Knights of old. Essentially a single rare unit in your army. When they came out in 2002 their lore was merely the mindless minions of the C'Tan, a parallel for the Vampire Counts in the fantasy version of Warhammer. (Energy feasting metal skinned vampire things surrounded by undead robots.)

By 2011 and with the introduction of 40K 5th edition the Necrons became more like the Tomb Kings what with their rising popularity in Warhammer 6th edition. This gave the writers more flexibility to create characters and storied pasts for the Necrons that the previous version simply couldn't.

A legion of mindless, soulless automatons scouring the universe of life for the will of the C'tan makes for a short introduction to a menacing army. But make them a race of people trying to cheat death after slaying the C'Tan and coming back damaged from the span of eons to today? Then you've got room to make armies based on some truly malevolent or even tragic characters of your own making.

Even OUR storied past was very limited and rightly so, we were the things of mystery. Grey Knights in 2nd edition were a five man black armor clad terminator squad with psychic powers. In 3rd edition we were expanded more as the branch of the Ordo Malleus. Today in 6th edition we're a full fledged codex with an expanded history where we now fight, slay, interrogate and in some cases capture daemonic warp entities to protect the Imperium.

In the end they can write anything they want about their own creative property, even make it so Chaos are actually well meaning anarchists, the Tau, Eldar and Imperium are bosom buddies and the Orks are just fun loving pub brawlers.

If Games Workshop gets bought by Hasbro the worst they could do is water down the background fluff from being dark and grim to somewhat spooky and rated G. My only real hopes are for the inflated prices to get cut and their box sets to be made more readily available so that I'm not choosing between a new army project and my food bill.

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Re: The end of GW ??

Post by Klomster on Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:53 pm

But the necrons were already a tragic race tricked by the C'tan. And the deep characters part was possible in the old rendition since the lords still retained much of their personalities.

And in the last cron dex, they had this looming evil feel. The steel horde led by the deprived C'tan for their insatiable lust for death.
An army tricked into slavery and fighting for a cause long forgotten, their passion and dreams long gone and all that is left is servitude.
I think that is a really cool way of doing undead in a sci-fi setting.

What we got now was no common goal, no reason for them to fight.
Since you can't have "fighting to restore their lost empire" and "mindless robots", and that is what they are trying to do.
Now instead of a dead race brought to unlife by strange gods, we have sprawling living communities of necrons led by lords whom trade with people?
Wtf?
You spoke of not wanting G rated fluff?
I don't know what G rated means, but the current necron fluff is frikkin rated ages 3+, small parts, sad onion Sad .

And what you say of the grey knights, is partially true.
But the full fledged codex part was mostly realised in the Deamonhunters codex.
"a full fledged codex with an expanded history where we now fight, slay, interrogate and in some cases capture daemonic warp entities to protect the Imperium."

Yup, all that was in 3rd ed.
Now we also get grey knight parties, a magical anti-deamon hotline so the knights always know imperial citizens are sad and in danger, so they can fly out in their space-ships while listening to their catchy 80's superhero theme song flying out saving people from the evil deamons.
And a grey knight with a deamon blade, which has no place fighting anywhere except locked up inside titan within hexagrammic wards to help him withstand the corrupting deamon within the sword.
Instead he is running around battlefields in the role of suicide action hero?

Excuse me, how does this make sense?
How is this not G rated as you call it?

And i agree with the price, it is too steep. Yes, it is a luxury product i get that but come on!
Like 300-400 Skr for like 10 ok plastic infantry models? NO!

I sort of hope fantasy flight games takes over.
Have you read some of the 40k rpg source-books? Those are dedicated to the fluff if anything.
Only reason it has gotten slightly cartoonified the last years is the core fluff has gone all tom & jerry on us.
FFG has produced convincing new weapons and races that ooze 40k and grimdark evil while gw has mostly made blood angels and necrons bros for life.

So i hope FFg takes over. Sure some of the Dark heresy stuff is stupid, but not even in the same solar system of bad as Gw usually is.

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Re: The end of GW ??

Post by Andarius the Red on Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:23 pm

G-rating is part of the film and novel rating system here in the States and Canada. An abbreviation to help viewers know what programs or novels can be read at what age based on their content. PG-13 means Parental Guidance under the age of 13, NC-17 or R means non-consent or restricted for those under the age of 17.

Rated G means its meant for a General audience or reader because it lacks anything that could be considered offensive to the viewer such as course language, adult situations and VIOLENCE!

That my friends is my darkest fear, that our beloved dark grim future shall be reduced to a math learning tool for ages 3 and up!

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Re: The end of GW ??

Post by elugin on Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:40 pm

In the meantime they re-released metal models: the old drunk dwarves of the Perry bros Smile

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Re: The end of GW ??

Post by Constantine on Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:46 pm

I was just looking at those dwarves! My favourite drunk dwarf is the one sleeping on his axe. I like the Samurai adventurer model too!

I don't think you have to worry about GW becoming 3+. Businesses want to grow and make money, there is already a well established market and culture with GW products so major changes are highly unlikely.

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Re: The end of GW ??

Post by Klomster on Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:21 pm

Drunken dwarfs?

Have anyone told Aubec?

Problem for perry minis is they won't have any drunken dwarfs after he hears of them Razz

Andarius the Red wrote:G-rating is part of the film and novel rating system here in the States and Canada. An abbreviation to help viewers know what programs or novels can be read at what age based on their content. PG-13 means Parental Guidance under the age of 13, NC-17 or R means non-consent or restricted for those under the age of 17.

Rated G means its meant for a General audience or reader because it lacks anything that could be considered offensive to the viewer such as course language, adult situations and VIOLENCE!

That my friends is my darkest fear, that our beloved dark grim future shall be reduced to a math learning tool for ages 3 and up!

Ah, it's the same as the Pg thing.
"Pg 13" i've heard many a time and I hope to never hear of it in the same sentence as gw......

See what i did there Razz

But more seriously, yes, we want our grimdark horror and gore back. No happy necrons and blood angels together, and none of the other crap.
Just some good old 40k evilry. That's not too much to ask.

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Re: The end of GW ??

Post by Rion on Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:32 pm

no it's not. Let us keep our hopes up that they go the way of Disney when they bought Marvel "here's lots of money. Do your thing. Do it well and make us lots more money."

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Re: The end of GW ??

Post by Sai on Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:21 pm

Actually I think Rated G translates across as a U: http://www.bbfc.co.uk/what-classification/u.

I've just thrown together a contingent of Slaaneshi Sex Daemons for a doubles tournament coming up in April. I'm not sure how that would fit into the classification system.

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Re: The end of GW ??

Post by Arthouros88 on Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:42 am

To speak the truth about this rumor,my gaming club here in Greece supports this action and we cant wait for it.Hasbro will fix the game (hopefully) and bring a balance in prices (the major problem for new and old players)

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Re: The end of GW ??

Post by Aubec le noir on Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:03 am

perhaps ... But frankly i doubt it ! Suspect
By compagnies want to make big money ... and the desires of the clients are rarely something they matter... Suspect
wait and see
...
and by the way
...
@Klomster .... i've got the first edition of those drunken dwarves !! Twisted EvilWink

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Re: The end of GW ??

Post by Thunder Shark on Thu Jul 10, 2014 5:58 am

This is why the government should force GW to lower their prices.

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Re: The end of GW ??

Post by Klomster on Thu Jul 10, 2014 9:03 am


Klomster
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Re: The end of GW ??

Post by Sponsored content Today at 4:55 am


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