Dreadknight.......Glorified Terminator?

There is no doubt that the dreadknight is awfully awfully nice.

T6. Monstrous Creature so Fearless and causes Fear. Str 10 attacks due to Doomfist (and that applies to Greatsword now too! so reroll everything at Str 10!).
Can be Jump Monstrous Creature, so ignore dangerous/difficult terrain (am I right?)
T6 so nothing short of a Force Weapon, or AP2 weapons can really harm it (or mass shooting!)

here's the downside.

4 wounds. that's brilliant. he's a mini Terminator Squad.
5+ inv. that sucks. That really really really sucks.
Cause guess what happens if you take a dreadknight.

You don't get into CC that much. it's an impossibility to keep your dreadknight in CC, even with Shunt. Which means you're open to shooting.

And Plasma. Lots of plasma.

5+ inv does not work against mass AP2 weapons!


So the dreadknight.....

Against small groups of infantry it's great. against a single character (not eternal warrior) he's good...

but is he the uber warrior? no

Why would we want an uberwarrior? It would take a lot skill out of the game.

i suppose it's on about the same level as a terminator squad, though its more mobile with the teleport pack.

It is also more reliable for punching tanks and insta-gibbing infantry up to T5. Terminators can do the same thing with hammers and psychic powers, but the dreadknight doesn't have to roll a psychic test for it. On the other hand, I guess it has fewer attacks than a terminator squad so it probably evens out..

Terminators lose power with every wound taken. The dreadknight fights at full capacity until it goes down, though it's damage output isn't as high as a full terminator squad in the first place.

I guess they're both worth about 220 points.

Every unit has its strengths and weaknesses, and it is my humble opinion that the DKs strengths outweigh its weaknesses.

I agree that we don't want it to be an "über unit" that is where the fun of strategy comes in.

I agree with Corenus, 5++ really sucks!  

But I think the NDK is one of the best MC's out there, surpassed only by the Wraithknight (because of toughness and initiative). One NDK could be compared to a Termi Squad no doubt, but 2 or 3 really shine. One army cannot handle multiple in-your-face MC's first turn (or any turn for that matter), backed by really nasty shooting from the rest of the army.

NDKs can handle jetbikes, scouts, pathfinders, Fire warriors, Necron warriors, Kroot with ease and within a 24" radius (heavy incin is the best weapon ever!). And it can insta-kill bikers, broadsides, Swiss Army Commanders, Crisis suits, wraithguards, tyranids by the million, thunderwolf cav. etc. in CC.

The one thing I find weak is his initiative and attacks.

I'm not sure if this is true but I've spoken with several grey knight players at my place of gaming and they say the nemesis great sword counts as a nemesis force sword in terms of the bonus to your invulnerable save in close combat. If its true then WOW, a piece of gear that keeps you str. 10, re-rollable hits and wounds and a +1 to invulnerable saves is a delightfully OP gear purchase!

There's nothing to say it counts as a nemesis force sword in the rulebook or FAQ. Apart from the fact they both have the word 'sword' in them, which isn't enough. Especially when one is a 'greatsword'.

Hmm... Your right, the nemesis force sword is very specific that it must be 'wielded' in order to gain the inv. bonus and the greatsword is more-or-less an upgrade for the nemesis doom fists, as its benefits are from simply possessing it.

I do not believe the great sword adds the invulnerable save bonus. I have never seen it mentioned before.

I agree it does not give a ++bonus. I've had some pretty good success running two with just the sword. For some reason I roll the 5++ like a boss so my opponent throws everything at him round one and he's still standing along with the rest of my army who is untouched. Honestly the dreadknight has earned it's points back for me more just by soaking up the enemies firepower rather than whatever it destroys. Love the things. Might model another one and see how running three in a list goes.

it does not grant the invulnerable bonus. it is a entirely different weapon than the nemesis force sword. both weapons have a own weapon entry.

there is also no entry stating it grants the increased invulnerable save. like the brotherhood champions annointed blade for example.

the greatsword does not grant you the +1 inv. save

but what i would like to know where it is stated that is gives you S10 now?

i assumed it only gave you the re-rolls and was at his basic strength valeu

it's in the FAQ/erratas
Aubec   

Are we any closer to answering the original question in this thread?
IMHO the NDK is a very versatile unit, and one which is almost guaranteed a place in my lists.

we can't answer this question ... it's up to every player to make this choice, depending of his personal preferences, his playing style, and so on...
I do love DKs myself even if he has some flaws, because i think that his versatility is more important than his drawbacks... but hey ! it's only mho !    
Aubec   

personally I love DKs, and I play at least 1 in every above-1200 list... definitely playable, but it depends from which kind of strategy you're applying... besides, yousaman, since DKs wear dreadnought close combat weapon AND greatsword, got assured 10 str and AP2, plus the effect of the sword (or the hammer, if you wish)... anyway you can search for the right topic in this forum... we talked about this argument in a very exausting manner!

Having fallen out of favour a bit when 6th dropped my NDK is making a comeback. I seem to run into lots of MCs like wraithknights / riptides and even daemon MCs. Teleporter and heavy incinerator is my current loadout. He jumps around the board flaming squishy stuff or punching out big scary units (if you've not yet managed to instagib a pair of wraithknights in one game with one NDK you don't know what you're missing out on lol)

bigbri wrote:Having fallen out of favour a bit when 6th dropped my NDK is making a comeback.  I seem to run into lots of MCs like wraithknights / riptides and even daemon MCs.  Teleporter and heavy incinerator is my current loadout.  He jumps around the board flaming squishy stuff or punching out big scary units (if you've not yet managed to instagib a pair of wraithknights in one game with one NDK you don't know what you're missing out on lol)

+1
That double Wraith Knight take down would have been fun to experience!!! Unless you were playing Eldar of course ;P

The NDK is still the top of the food chain in hand to hand for MC's, had an eldar palyer tell me the Wraithknight was the best untill he sent it into hand to hand with me, (even though I told him not to). For shooting then the wraith knight is better with 2 D cannons, but not for hand to hand. He will always find use in my armies, even if it is just as a fire magnet.