The Humble Land Raider.....is it dead?

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Re: The Humble Land Raider.....is it dead?

Post by Pyriel on Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:25 am

Taking bastions is situational, first of all if the opponent dont brings eldar then you are stuck with a bastion. Secondly if you face the usual serpent spam crap then the bastion is jut another waste of points. Turn one serpend boosts forward, turn two the usual running fire dragons unass and kill your bastion.

As for fliers like the stormraven for dreadnought delivery well, one serpent equals 4.5 S7 shots that dont care about your cover saves. Two serpents equipped with the usual stuff mean your storm raven will get 0.86 glancings and 0.86 penetrating hits and you r a r e l y see less then 5 serpents on the table with 6+ being the norm.

As a GK/SM army your one and only chance is loading up on landraiders and protecting them from the inevitable wraithguard/firedragon rush, shooting everything down and in late game take objectives using bikes.

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Re: The Humble Land Raider.....is it dead?

Post by Sai on Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:45 am

I guess I'm just lucky people don't take that many serpents around here I suppose, I haven't seen anyone use more than four at 1500 points.

I've always found a bastion useful, mostly as something to hide a unit behind until the time is right to shunt forward. I don't tend to use them often though, they just don't fit with the theme of the Grey Knights very well. A landraider though, I can get behind that.

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Re: The Humble Land Raider.....is it dead?

Post by Constantine on Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:45 am

I still love land raiders..... Them and Terminators.

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Re: The Humble Land Raider.....is it dead?

Post by Sai on Sun Nov 10, 2013 3:36 pm

That's because it's true love and it will last a lifetime Wink 

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Re: The Humble Land Raider.....is it dead?

Post by Constantine on Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:07 pm

LOL!!! <3

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Re: The Humble Land Raider.....is it dead?

Post by Rion on Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:21 am

lol I wont lie. With the "meta" leaning towards infantry and light vehicles the thought of fielding a Landraider has crossed my mind. With people relying on their small vehicles and infantry that's what they will be arming their troops to fight not AV14 Twisted Evil 

While I stick with what I said it's not as useful thats me looking at it from a points standpoint. Just about everything I've looked at for the 6th edition codexs has received a points deduction. (Exceptions noted.) That being said our already out numbered forces are even more outnumbered. Forcing us to rely on big C to give us numbers with cheap Inquisitorial forces. A landraider is a point sink. A deadly point sink but a point sink still.

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Re: The Humble Land Raider.....is it dead?

Post by Pyriel on Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:57 am

BS:P
Everything except a landraider is a point sink.
Your infantry, your rhinos, your dreads etc, all these things are instant killed by eldar and tau. Only the LR can stay and if protected from deepstriking melta etc by strike knights it is powerful.
Sure if you run around with those flame or crusader LRs then you deserve to loose.

As for the meta being more infantry...lol.
The meta is cramming as many OP transport vehicles in as possible with as few infantry in them as possible with as little infantry on the table as possible.
Even tyranids are about MC spam with a few gaunts in between. The eldar infantry on the table itself are usually a few min jetbike squads hiding till last turn.
Tau is the exception but then they hide behind defensive walls and broadsides and riptides is not exactly what I call infantry.

Face it, the old days where armies consisted on tac and dev squads in the open or big units of infantry walking of against other units of infantry with the odd tank and a few transports thrown in are gone. Today it is about selling as many expensive wave serpents as possible right after changing the rules from having sold as many razorbacks as possible. Wonder what the next cycle will be, selling as many ork trukks as possible at the expense of the already sold out serpents?

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Re: The Humble Land Raider.....is it dead?

Post by Sai on Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:24 am

The game was never balanced beyond being breakable in the first place and I doubt it ever will be. If someone has built themselves a boring list of 'invincible' transports simply don't play unless you want to have a go at out-bearding them, or just like a challenge. You don't have to be rude, just point out that rolling dice and taking all your models off the board with no hope of reprisal is a depressing waste of time and energy for both of you. It's not a game.

Wave Serpents really don't worry me too much when there are only 3 or 4 of them, between shunting and deep striking I can reliably get behind the serpents and shoot them full of bullets and napalm. The same goes for hiding jet bikes- it's not often they can outrun the interceptors, or the raven for that matter.

If your locals are as twisted as they seem, I wouldn't bother with the raiders- after your first game with them they'll just refit their serpents with bright lances.

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Re: The Humble Land Raider.....is it dead?

Post by Constantine on Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:45 am

Great points Brothers. GW is a company, and companies need to make money to stay in business. I am not saying that GW does not try to make a great producy, because IMHO they do, but they need to make money and that is done through sales. Which as observed are increased by the values of pieces in the game.

At the end of the day it is you and I that make lists and choose how they are built, not GW, not the Codecies, us. 40K can be balanced if those playing choose to make it so. As sugested by Brother Sai, talk with your gaming clubs, friends, tournament organizers, etc... and WORK towards connecting with like minded players rather than ranting or getting upset and overwhlemed with those who choose to build "winning lists".

40K means A LOT of diffrent things to A LOT of different people. Reflect and understand what it means to you, and connect with those that share your meaning. You CANNOT nor should you be able to change what 40K means to others, so don't waste your time getting upset. Just focus on what makes you happy. Very Happy

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Re: The Humble Land Raider.....is it dead?

Post by Sai on Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:51 am

And until next time, take care of yourselves, and each other;) 

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Re: The Humble Land Raider.....is it dead?

Post by Constantine on Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:57 am

Stay classy San Diego.

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Re: The Humble Land Raider.....is it dead?

Post by Pyriel on Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:27 pm

Well lucky you your gaming community doesnt use more then 3 serpents and is so incompetent they actually never put them back to back denying shunt-shooting.
I think I would enjoy playing there.

As for lances, that is a different ball game, if the eldar take lances on their 130-ish point serpents even better for my stealthed LRs.
This is what made dreadnoughts work previously, the overly good cover saves for AV12 tin cans.

Iīm not saying eldar spam cant be beat, far from, even SM have "a" nigh invincible build against those that work vs most things but here is where the fun factor comes in, one repetitive build vs carbon copy cheese spam is not what I call fun.
Besides, I dont drag my models of to game somewhere simply h o p i n g that I wont have to face this crap and if I do hope yet again they might change it simply because I refuse to play it. You base your no-worries on a lot of assumption that just do not hold up over here and again, good luck and wish you the best with your overly fun and understanding gaming community, wish we had one too.

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Re: The Humble Land Raider.....is it dead?

Post by Constantine on Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:01 pm

LOL!
I can understand why you are so frustrated Brother, but if the situation is that bleak and unbearable why do you continue to participate in it?

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Re: The Humble Land Raider.....is it dead?

Post by Sai on Tue Nov 12, 2013 1:09 am

they actually never put them back to back denying shunt-shooting.
I think it's more to do with some sort of social competence rather than tactical incompetence. That manœuvre looked stupid when rhino rush types did it in 3rd edition. Don't get me wrong, in a static position it makes sense, but while zooming around?

Really, just talk to them.

'Let me get this straight, your tanks are flying at speed but reverse their arses to each other every few meters. Win at all costs much you joyless numb nut? The rear armour value is lower because the designers wanted there is a weak spot in its rear armour, not because they wanted a parking lot moving across the battlefield.'

It's your community that applauds these things instead of pointing out how cheap and silly it is. Like taking 3 Heldrakes. Only you guys can change that.

I do appreciate the people I play with more now though. Do you have any other gaming groups in your area?


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Re: The Humble Land Raider.....is it dead?

Post by Sai on Tue Nov 12, 2013 2:14 am

Actually, thinking about it, we are playing very different games. Your guys enjoy building unbeatable lists and play the game as it's written, it's more of an intellectual, mathematical thing. My guys tend towards keeping the same army and varying tactics (as much as you can in 40k), but mostly having a decent story accompanied by beer and arguments about Babylon 5.

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Re: The Humble Land Raider.....is it dead?

Post by Pyriel on Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:15 am

A few friends do play fun lists and dont do shit like flat outing with stuff only to turn backs to backs but itīs boring to play only with a few people and against a few armies.

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Re: The Humble Land Raider.....is it dead?

Post by Alladin the Paladin on Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:39 pm

Pyriel wrote:A few friends do play fun lists and dont do shit like flat outing with stuff only to turn backs to backs but itīs boring to play only with a few people and against a few armies.
(Un)luckily for me I have some unexplained huge pull to get other armies, and unless I reign myself in somehow, I will have 1500 pts of Tyranids, Dark Angels and CSM by next year's end in addition to my Grey Knights... And that's if I can hold off on getting a Tau army.

By the time I get around to actually playing I will have half the 40k armies at my disposal... Painting them will be another story.

I don't know how I'd handle cheap players... For me the competitiveness is almost nonexistent (at this point) so I think getting mauled by someone who is only out to win would not be fun for me as it wouldn't make for a good narrative. Hopefully I'll find some relaxed gamers who aren't primarily concerned with their win/loss score.

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Re: The Humble Land Raider.....is it dead?

Post by Rion on Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:26 pm

Alladin the Paladin wrote:
Pyriel wrote:A few friends do play fun lists and dont do shit like flat outing with stuff only to turn backs to backs but itīs boring to play only with a few people and against a few armies.
(Un)luckily for me I have some unexplained huge pull to get other armies, and unless I reign myself in somehow, I will have 1500 pts of Tyranids, Dark Angels and CSM by next year's end in addition to my Grey Knights... And that's if I can hold off on getting a Tau army.

By the time I get around to actually playing I will have half the 40k armies at my disposal... Painting them will be another story.

I don't know how I'd handle cheap players... For me the competitiveness is almost nonexistent (at this point) so I think getting mauled by someone who is only out to win would not be fun for me as it wouldn't make for a good narrative. Hopefully I'll find some relaxed gamers who aren't primarily concerned with their win/loss score.
A famous quote an Ultramarine player and I coined. "We're here to kill smurfs and pop chrome domes." All the people I play against are casual players none of us go to tournies.

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Re: The Humble Land Raider.....is it dead?

Post by Sai on Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:57 am


A few friends do play fun lists and dont do shit like flat outing with stuff only to turn backs to backs but itīs boring to play only with a few people and against a few armies.
You could always try something like the 'Campaign Weekend's that GW run in the UK. I've been to a couple, they had 40-50 players who for the most part aren't there to win points. Winning is better than losing, but it's a lot more casual. One of my friends who hasn't played since third edition went along and people were fine with helping him out. He even managed to win a couple of games. While I was there I found a group up in Staines who seem to be on my group's wavelength, so now we go visiting from time to time.

The ticket was Ģ40 though which seems steep. Then again, it's GW we're talking about. If you've got the room at a club you could always try doing your own event locally and see what other groups of players you pull in. If you're in the UK I'd come along Smile

There were also phantom titans and thunder hawks which was quite fun. Probably more fun to watch when they're on another table, I have no idea how my Grey Knights would take down a battle titan.

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Re: The Humble Land Raider.....is it dead?

Post by Corennus on Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:08 am

from within!

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Re: The Humble Land Raider.....is it dead?

Post by Corennus on Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:29 am

or with a list like this. 2000 points of Str 10 and lance nastiness

Coteaz
100

Kamarazov
200

ELITES

Techmarine
Orbital Strike
Servo Skulls x 3
155

Techmarine
Orbital Strike
Servo Skulls x 3
155

Paladin
M/C Nemesis Warding Stave
85



TROOPS

Inqusiitor Squad (8 man)
Psykers x 8
DT: Rhino w/ HK
130

Inqusiitor Squad (8 man)
Psykers x 8
DT: Rhino w/ HK
130

Inqusiitor Squad (8 man)
Psykers x 8
DT: Rhino w/ HK
130

Inqusiitor Squad (8 man)
Psykers x 8
DT: Rhino w/ HK
130

Inqusiitor Squad (8 man)
Psykers x 8
DT: Rhino w/ HK
130

HEAVY SUPPORT

Dreadknight
Heavy Incinerator
Greatsword
185

Dreadknight
Heavy Incinerator
Greatsword
185

Dreadknight
Heavy Incinerator
Greatsword
185

FORTIFICATION

Aegis Defence Line
T-L Quad Gun
100


Paladin Deep Strikes in and homes in on biggest largest baddest target there is, then Kamarazov Orbital Strikes it using Paladin as target

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Re: The Humble Land Raider.....is it dead?

Post by Sai on Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:39 am

Getting Justicar Thawn up under it would probably be worth a go. Kamarazov and Thawn can keep up the lance strikes all day long.

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Re: The Humble Land Raider.....is it dead?

Post by Corennus on Wed Nov 13, 2013 6:50 am

indeed.

Drop a Dreadknight and a Techmarine and you have Thawn and terminator squad

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Re: The Humble Land Raider.....is it dead?

Post by Pyriel on Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:32 am

How is this even going to scratch the pain of the usual eldar spam I face?

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Re: The Humble Land Raider.....is it dead?

Post by Thraxdown on Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:50 pm

Pyriel wrote:

I am also talking about pure GK and not watered down by henchmen.
Also the only version of the dreadknight useful in todays meta is a shunting one armed with a hammer and if points permit, a heavy incinerator. The previously poor hammer is currently worth its points in gold.

I've been out of the game for about six months, so I'm playing catch up here. Why is the hammer good now?

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