5th edition woes for deamon hunters

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5th edition woes for deamon hunters

Post by hunter on Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:26 pm

take my rants with a grain of salt , deamonhunters still have some of the best troops in the game.

well after getting a solid lowdown on the 5th edition , it spells the end of my deamonhunter army as a stand alone army and this is why.

Troops are now the only scoring meaning that i just down own sufficiant number of knights to make my army competitive, why not buy more knights and troopers ? well with space marines comming out with an incredeble amout of sweet stuff , i am saving up add to that the unserten futur of the armys of the inquisition i am not ready to invest again untill the codex gets updated or fixt

next , assasins are no longer protected by ther indipendedt caractor status making them costly firemagnets .

add the woes from the CMS/deamos changes well you get the pictur
BUT this is not the end for my gray knights and other inquisitorial warriors, they will give ther much needed strenght and wisdom to my ultramarines and especialy my undermand spacewolves .

brother captens and gray knights termies in large squads and proper wargear make for devestating anti chaos units as well as the bain of all CC units ,powerarmor Gray knights is an elite quallety TROOP that can camp on an objective, stormtroopers are cheep , shooty and can come with a chimira that now any of your units can borrow ,

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Re: 5th edition woes for deamon hunters

Post by Constantine on Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:39 pm

Keep the faith Brother.

We were never supposed to be a stand alone army. That is part of the appeal !!!
I for one will not turn my back on the out numbered but never out skilled Grey Knights.

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Re: 5th edition woes for deamon hunters

Post by NemesisForce on Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:01 am

Isn't that what Grey Knights are really all about though? The odds always against them and taking on opponents that others can't? Sure, I go through my bouts of depression, anger and frustration on how we're taking a backseat but everytime I look at my boys lined up on my gaming shelf I'm more resolved than ever. Come hell or highwater I'm playing them pure. It forces me to think more tactically and in my opinion will make me a better player in the long run. Win or lose.

Some good things are coming out of the new rules as well. We may not have a lot of Troops but being Fearless were not going to be moraled off an objective. With our NFW's all our models are potential tank-busters not to be taken lightly and the new vehicle rules will make our Land Raiders way more survivable. The key will be to adapt the new strengths to overcome or alleviate the weaknesses.

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Re: 5th edition woes for deamon hunters

Post by hunter on Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:02 am

well true about nemisis can openers and the fact that the crusader ROCKS

in my case . (shows empty wallet) on the short term i cant afford to upgrade the knights to a point that they can hold ther own again.
i calculate i may need to buy 3 blisters of PGK and possebly 2 blisters of troopers to get the bodies i need to take any objectives .

i still remember a take and hold mission couple monts back , a 10 man pgk team teleported right on the objective , my opponent trew evrythin he had and they still held out.
note my stormtroopers aer known for pulling WTF , namly killing a hive tyrant.

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Re: 5th edition woes for deamon hunters

Post by Constantine on Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:05 am

Well said Brother NemesisForce,

Every new edition of 40K is met with resistance from a large portion of players. But as the dust settles, new and exciting possibilities that weren't possible with old editions come to light sunny . Armies become re-invented, preventing boredom (not that we have had the luxury of being bored Very Happy ).

I agree that the GKs do appear to take a back seat in terms of being revised Sad but the fact that they are going to get revised is awesome cheers

Even if the GKs become a support force (HERESY!!!! Mad ) We don't have to play them that way, and it sounds like you have your choice of allies Brother hunter.

All I am saying is stay true, don't give up, and look atthe 5th edition rules as a challenge not an end.

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Re: 5th edition woes for deamon hunters

Post by hunter on Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:19 pm

this getting off topic . am ranting in an effort to expose how our codex nolonger functions as it was intended an HOW WE could fix it atleast temporarely untill GW gets to us in about 2 years.

now i belive overall the 5th edition is a good thing ,only a combination of factors has turn the gray knights from the ultimate defence agance the yuines powers to costly gloryboys , lets but back the HUNTER in Deamonhunters .

i have some idears how to tweek the codex with out radicly altering it or make it unfair to other players , including chaos.

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Re: 5th edition woes for deamon hunters

Post by Aeddon on Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:10 am

Tweeking the codex is more of a house rule thing and would depend on your opponent allowing it.

Overall it's probably better to wait and see for sure what will change.


Just my two cents.

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Re: 5th edition woes for deamon hunters

Post by Brother-Captain Validi on Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:55 am

I would made the Aegis negate all Close combat Daemon Weaponry from being Power Weapons and Rending in addition to what it already does!

Instead of True Grit, All PAGK gain +1 attacks (PAGK has 2 attacks, Justicar has three,) so it's the same as before, except now we can get charge bonuses!

Make Rights of Excorsism make Daemons have to roll 2D6 for charge distance.

Daemonic Infestation, all Daemon Troopy stuff (Bloodletters, Plaguebearers, Pink and Blue Horrors (WTF) Daemonettes, Nurglings) get sustained attack or whatever varient there is in 5th.

Psybolt upgrade for all Grey Knight Terminators.

Maybe also a 5+ Inv for troops and a 4+ Inv for Terminators. (but not too sure about that)

Hero Brother-Captain has BS 5, 2 Wounds and Initative 5 and costs 80 points

G-M opints cost lowered to 130 and able to take 2 Psychic Powers

Special Grey Knightly Psychic powers can be taken by Justicar/Terminator Brother Captain(in addition to Holocaust), but not ones that own too much.

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Re: 5th edition woes for deamon hunters

Post by hunter on Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:53 pm

i dont belive GK should get OVERPOWERD to the point of being cheezy unfare.

Right of exorsisem... when demons lose an assault agance gray knights or other units that affect demon moral such as an inquisitor with hieropant.. or inquisitor lord cortez , they take +1 wound, cumulative with other factors.
example if a deamon pack loses an assult with an inquisitor with a hieropant. they get +1 wond in adition to the no retret damages, an other wond if gray kinghts are on the table and an other because of Cortez for a total of +3 . saves allowd ofcourse
this is actualy not as bad as the original demonic instibility test and it dosent affect all loyalist forces only vert specific units

Agise ... if standerd agis rule do not apply to the situation, all gray knights get a 5+ invulnerable save Vs psychic or demonic type attack such as cc from a deamon demonic powers and weapons (including things such as tousand sons warp blast bolters)

common sence epseptions . attacks from demon types that are not warp/demonic in nature such as defilers or getting tanktshockt from a posest veicle.
this maked for gray knights more surviveble agances come of the big baddys out ther and is fluff appropriate

psychic power ... banishment ... target demon suffers woonds as if lost an assult and outnumberd 2 to one , other bonuses applicable.
like rights of exorsisem , this power needed to be fixt so might as well use the same rules

Demonic Infestation , chaos player may reroll his reserves for demons. option , the demon may reroll his deep strike mishap.
This will give the chaos player an edge with out being as .... devestating as the bloddy warpspawn coming back on you

iffy sujestions .
all gray knights may assault wnen teleporting instead of shooting , if thats too strong make it just make it pgk as fast attack

give all gray knight brother capt and justicars accest to the same wargear as GK heroes

reduce the cost of GK special weapons by 5 points or just for the purgatorum squads
this would make a purgatorum squad more of an valid option as well as an excuse to use all thoes insinorators pgk that are gathering dust.

thers plenty i would like to add but i belive that to make things fair , only what is broken should be fixt atleast for now .
i know the weaponc costs for knights are to hi considering ther giving up a stormbolter or nemesis (or bouth) for a combi melta or a powerfist

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Re: 5th edition woes for deamon hunters

Post by SIRSEAN on Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:19 am

allow me to understand...

-Can our PAGK use transports?

-We still have two attacks in combat?, and now, if we charge, we have 3?

because if those two are TRUE, the army gets a really good improvemet.

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Re: 5th edition woes for deamon hunters

Post by NemesisForce on Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:56 am

Yes to the transports. GK's can now mount up in IST Rhinos/Chimeras during game play. They just can't set up before the game starts inside them. To be announced for the 2 attacks though. It will depend on wether or not the omission of True Grit from the Universal Rules will be addressed in our FAQ.

Edit: Well, the long-anticipated (dreaded?) 5th edition FAQ is now out. Not surprisingly it leaves a lot of much-needed fixing still left undone. There's a bunch of stuff on Assassins but since I don't play them I can't comment on it. Looks like we keep True Grit and Power of the Machine Spirit is now 'official' for us. Our asscans still suck and still no adjustments at all for our now partly useless Daemon-fighting special abilities that we're paying for.

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Re: 5th edition woes for deamon hunters

Post by hunter on Fri Jul 11, 2008 3:31 pm

looks like NemesisForce has beaten me to the news of the dredded faq
apart for some landrader goodies the faq has done nothing to rebalance the gray knights.

to be fair ther only updating the rules conserning the 5th edition and a little bit conserning the upcomming SM codex.


so it's up to us AGAIN to rebuild the codex to somthing worthy of the ordos malus.

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Re: 5th edition woes for deamon hunters

Post by Snowfire on Sat Jul 12, 2008 2:26 am

WHAT A PILE OF $#!%

That was the WORST FAQ I have ever read for the daemonhunters.

I would have thought that because we have NEMESIS FORCE WEAPONS, we should be able to be an exception to eternal warrior rules and Insta Kill Daemons with our weapons. But I guess my sights were too high.

Come on GW, at least cut us some slack against the daemons.

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Re: 5th edition woes for deamon hunters

Post by Aeddon on Sat Jul 12, 2008 3:46 am

My sentiments all around.

So what part of these new rules is supposed to improve the game?

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Re: 5th edition woes for deamon hunters

Post by For the Emperor on Sat Jul 12, 2008 2:49 pm

I would love shrouding on our vehicles, fluff! Smile
All assassins aren't useless, Vindicare can shoot into close combat, and itís a big psychological factor being able to pick a guy to be shot in the head. Oh yeah BS 7+ would be nice for him.
Make our assault cannon rending like the space marine equivalent.
Give us cool kick ass characters like every other race has.
Make sure our assassins have fun and donít get constantly mobbed.
Give us more fast attack; I end up taking 3 elites all the time. Smile
Beef up our Grandmaster, he lacks for his points cost.
Separate options between different characteristics, i.e. t3 models vs. t4 model equipment.
if the space marine codex creators dare nick our weaponry grrrrrrrrrr Razz
More psychic power that are fun like equivalent of fleet, loose ability to shoot for that turn, refer to the fleet special rules.
Keep Holocaust! But donít make it kill all our terminators!
Rhinos as option for Gk's (may as well use SOB instead)
Mhmmm turbo penetrator + rending tasty Smile I'll just target that highly explosive gas canister my spy mask has found lol
Daemon hunters are the best. Nobody in my shops except the staff knows that my army has been made by retards lol... Because I have won 12 consecutive games Smile Just protecting our reputation as a superior force built from the emperors gene seed!
Ok finished ranting.

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Re: 5th edition woes for deamon hunters

Post by hunter on Sat Jul 12, 2008 8:54 pm

if we overboost the codex to that levle , nobody will want to play a game agance us or worse , call us cheezy gits

retrofitting the codex to the point it as effective agance the new CMS/demon codex as it is agance the old chaos with a little extra power .

my persenal fav idear is to give the deepstriking pgk the ability to assault when arrive.

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Re: 5th edition woes for deamon hunters

Post by Aeddon on Sat Jul 12, 2008 9:38 pm

Oh I doubt that GW would ever give our army that much power! I'll tell you what I think though, it seems to me that they are by far cheezing out anyone who wants to get into close combat! Am I the only one reading it like that?

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Re: 5th edition woes for deamon hunters

Post by Snowfire on Sun Jul 13, 2008 4:17 am

PAGK don't need to be able to assault on the turn that they deepstrike, as there is a unit that will have this ability very soon.

They are the SM Vanguard Veterans.

Assault Marines with the ability to assault if they are in range on the turn they deepstrike. Look out for them in October.

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Re: 5th edition woes for deamon hunters

Post by Brother-Captain Validi on Sun Jul 13, 2008 4:34 am

Yeah, but they're normal SM, not Grey Knights.
Are they like a special charactery squad which only one army can use or are they able to be used be any random codex army?

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Re: 5th edition woes for deamon hunters

Post by Snowfire on Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:30 am

IIRC any random codex army.

and Sternguard (apologies for incorrect spelling) Veterans who can take Deathwatch style ammunition for their bolters.

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Re: 5th edition woes for deamon hunters

Post by hunter on Sun Jul 13, 2008 6:59 pm

thas still dosent help the deamonhunter codex
but perhaps we should see what direction GW is taking the space marines befor we start mucking around with our army list

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Re: 5th edition woes for deamon hunters

Post by NemesisForce on Mon Jul 14, 2008 1:31 am

Just think. The way GW are power-packing each new codex that comes out can you imagine what uber level it be at when we finally get our re-write? Maybe having to wait a long time is not so bad after all.

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Re: 5th edition woes for deamon hunters

Post by Constantine on Mon Jul 14, 2008 1:36 am

I hope you are right Brother NemesisForce,
apparently we have been left out of the new apoc book. pale

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Re: 5th edition woes for deamon hunters

Post by Spartan on Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:03 am

Grey Knights are sent knowing they are out numbered and will probably die so go into every battle ready to lose and well you may just snatch a victory and it is so much sweeter when you win with this kind of army

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Re: 5th edition woes for deamon hunters

Post by Klomster on Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:37 pm

When our codex gets rewritten. Right.

I think we will reach thr year 40'000 irl before our codex is rewritten.


We must fight until the end, we must keep our spirits, and we must find a crazy person that is willing too buy so much gk stuff that gw wouldn't like to take them away!

That is what we should fight for!

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Re: 5th edition woes for deamon hunters

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