Narthecium worth the points?

 :: Tactica

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Narthecium worth the points?

Post by SmokinBrown on Thu May 09, 2013 11:16 am

This is an expensive item, but I was wondering whether those of you who run paladins think that it is worth the cost for the extra survivability?

SB

SmokinBrown
Grey Knight
Grey Knight

Number of posts : 251
Age : 25
Location : UK, North West
Army : Grey Knights, Necrons, The Empire
Registration date : 2011-05-09

Grey knight
stats:

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Narthecium worth the points?

Post by bigbri on Thu May 09, 2013 11:21 am

It's one of those things where it depends on your army. Personally I think if you're running a decent size unit it'll be worth it, especially since you now get the saves vs plasma(potentially huge vs Tau and marines that have switched to plas from melta)

bigbri
Justicar
Justicar

Number of posts : 712
Age : 27
Location : Manchester, England
Army : Grey Knights/Space Wolves/Imperial Guard
Registration date : 2010-08-04

Grey knight
stats:

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Narthecium worth the points?

Post by Rion on Thu May 09, 2013 12:42 pm

A friend and I were talking about this the other day. The feel no pain can turn the battle. Apparently my friend watched a game where a ten man BA assault squad killed a nid swarm simple because he guy was making all his FNP. Granted ours costs ALOT but in a death star build it would be invaluable.

Rion
Justicar
Justicar

Number of posts : 625
Age : 26
Army : Grey Knights, Knights Camlann (Space Marine)
Registration date : 2012-03-30

Grey knight
stats:

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Narthecium worth the points?

Post by SmokinBrown on Thu May 09, 2013 12:52 pm

Might help if I told you what I was running it with lol.

5 paladins, 2 of which have halberd and incinerator, 2 guys with hammers, and one with a banner.
For transport they have a crusader with psybolt and a multimelta. Also they are joined by either draigo, or an OXI who takes psyker for prescience, rad grenades, power armour, and a plasma syphon for added protection from plasma. Running them with draigo comes to 855 points, with the inquisitor it's 668 I think.

So it's already a really expensive unit, but can take on most things it's pointed at.

Does FNP apply to independent characters which have joined the unit? I'm away from my BRB atm.

SB

SmokinBrown
Grey Knight
Grey Knight

Number of posts : 251
Age : 25
Location : UK, North West
Army : Grey Knights, Necrons, The Empire
Registration date : 2011-05-09

Grey knight
stats:

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Narthecium worth the points?

Post by DOMIN4TRIX on Thu May 09, 2013 7:07 pm

Draigo is more valuable for keeping Palladins live than an Apothecary.

As with a banner and psybolt ammo - I would only run a medic with a 10 man squad to get the most from it, and then I would be looking at adding in another HQ to really abuse what i'm paying for.

A Raider transporting them is more than enough protection IMO. If your running them in a Crusader just stick 8 Palladins in and be done with it.

I also think its criminal not to give them psycannon's. It's the cheapest relentless psycannon in the codex, 5 points cheaper than the Terminator option. (yes I know the OMI pays 5 points less still but he has to first buy the armour so effectively his psycannon is 55pts)

DOMIN4TRIX
Justicar
Justicar

Number of posts : 642
Age : 34
Army : Knights, Nids and Necs
Registration date : 2011-08-09

Grey knight
stats:

View user profile http://corpointdeux.tumblr.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: Narthecium worth the points?

Post by first strike on Thu May 09, 2013 8:10 pm

For what you are running I would not have FNP. The cost is just to much, better in lagrer squads as Domin4trix has said. And yes the FNP will apply to any independent character who joined the squad.

first strike
Grey Knight
Grey Knight

Number of posts : 409
Age : 40
Army : Grey Knights, Eldar, Space Wolves, High Elf
Registration date : 2012-02-08

Grey knight
stats:

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Narthecium worth the points?

Post by DonFer on Fri May 10, 2013 9:01 am

I really wouldn't bother with an Aothecary. It's just too expensive, in an already expensive unit. Sure they add durability to it, but how much more? Paladins already have 2 wounds and FNP will only delay their death. Moreover, they always get targeted by S7 and up weapons, which means that ID will occur quite frequently, and FNP will not help you in this one bit.

I'd rather use the points somewhere else, but that's me. if it works for you make them Feel the Pain! Razz

DonFer
Terminator
Terminator

Number of posts : 1398
Age : 41
Registration date : 2010-10-21

Grey knight
stats:

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Narthecium worth the points?

Post by Vindicare on Fri May 10, 2013 11:51 am

I must admit it is a tough call for me, I agree it can be a waste of a point sink in certain match ups, but in others it can be really helpful. I think Point limit and purpose of that unit plays a big part in deciding whether to run the apothecary. If the pallies are going to be the main force and you have Draigo and their in a LR yeah you probably dont need an apothecary, as Draigo in theory should keep them alive long enough to get them into CC.

However I personally like to play them as a flanking unit. So i drop them in a Storm raven or Storm Eagle, use the flyer to tank out any transports or tanks that may pose a threat and then have my 5 or 6 man Pally Squad perform a multi-assault into the closest units to tie them up. Normally I dont equip my pallies with heavy weapons just because they aren't going to be shooting much, and if I do have a heavy weapon it would probably go on the secondary HQ. Having an Apothecary i have found has been very useful especially when he has a warding stave. He may be expensive but I will guaranteed get the line breaker point and that squad and HQ should survive and at the same time divert 3 or 4 squads from the rest of the battle in some way whether it is forcing the opponent to move heavy troops away or to transfer assault troops/ tactical troops from the front line.

But that is my opinion. Everyone's tactics are different.



Vindicare
Henchmen
Henchmen

Number of posts : 68
Age : 26
Location : Canada
Army : Grey Knights, Eldar, High Elves, Red Scropions
Registration date : 2011-08-10

Grey knight
stats:

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Narthecium worth the points?

Post by Patterner on Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:33 pm

DOMIN4TRIX wrote:Draigo is more valuable for keeping Palladins live than an Apothecary.
Why is that? I'm pretty new to all this, and don't understand what he does. Especially in light of the fact that he costs so much more than an Apothecary.

Patterner
Stormtrooper
Stormtrooper

Number of posts : 5
Age : 52
Registration date : 2013-05-13

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Narthecium worth the points?

Post by volvoe on Sat Jun 08, 2013 2:33 pm

You could leave Draigo in the front and let him tank the shots. He has more survivability because he's an eternal warrior, lots of wounds, and 2+/3++. Organizing your formation where he takes all the wounds would help your squad against what would normally instant death them.

volvoe
Henchmen
Henchmen

Number of posts : 223
Age : 24
Army : Purifier Variant
Registration date : 2012-04-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Narthecium worth the points?

Post by Patterner on Sat Jun 08, 2013 3:50 pm

Ah. I see. Thanks.

So 10 Paladins with Draigo AND the narthecium would be able to kill the actual opposing player, eh?!? lol

Patterner
Stormtrooper
Stormtrooper

Number of posts : 5
Age : 52
Registration date : 2013-05-13

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Narthecium worth the points?

Post by volvoe on Sat Jun 08, 2013 4:10 pm

And that would be called a death star unit. xD however that's a very expensive unit that has very low mobility..

volvoe
Henchmen
Henchmen

Number of posts : 223
Age : 24
Army : Purifier Variant
Registration date : 2012-04-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Narthecium worth the points?

Post by SmokinBrown on Sat Jun 08, 2013 6:37 pm

volvoe wrote:And that would be called a death star unit. xD however that's a very expensive unit that has very low mobility..

That's why I like using them in a crusader Smile

SB

SmokinBrown
Grey Knight
Grey Knight

Number of posts : 251
Age : 25
Location : UK, North West
Army : Grey Knights, Necrons, The Empire
Registration date : 2011-05-09

Grey knight
stats:

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Narthecium worth the points?

Post by Patterner on Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:18 am

It occurs to me that a Paladin with Brotherhood Banner and Narthecium gives FNP, +1 Attacks, and auto-pass on activating force weapons.  For 155 points.  That's better than some GK HQ's.  He's doing great stuff for a full unit of Paladins, while a Librarian is doing stuff elsewhere, or Coteaz gives you an inexpensive HQ so you can have a whole bunch of henchmen or spend points in some other way.

Patterner
Stormtrooper
Stormtrooper

Number of posts : 5
Age : 52
Registration date : 2013-05-13

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Narthecium worth the points?

Post by Corennus on Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:52 am

in a word......75 points for FNP is overpriced. especially on a unit that is so costly to start with....

130 points for a model that gives FNP...

take a look at sanguinary priest, or space marine command squad then say that the GK Apothecary is worth the points compared to these CHEAPER models

Corennus
Justicar
Justicar

Number of posts : 664
Age : 37
Location : UK
Army : Ex player from 5th ed.
Registration date : 2011-02-11

Grey knight
stats:

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Narthecium worth the points?

Post by Souba on Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:35 pm

Corennus wrote:in a word......75 points for FNP is overpriced. especially on a unit that is so costly to start with....

130 points for a model that gives FNP...

take a look at sanguinary priest, or space marine command squad then say that the GK Apothecary is worth the points compared to these CHEAPER models

in order to play a command squad, you have to pay for a captain wich is a 100 point investment without additional gear consider that most marine players play special HQ's or libbys there is not even room for that most of the time. a command squad is in addition only a 5 man power armored squad with close combat weapon and boltpistol/boltgun. additional upgrades that bring a command squad on par with a unit of paladins. they have to pay 15-30 points for power weapons and stormshields arent cheap either.

sanguinary priests on the other hand are just cheap and everybody knows that. however if you consider what you have to pay in order to get him on a similar level of wargear as a GK apothecary you pay 85 points but only have a power sword and the chalice. nothing else. no force weapon, no increased initiative with it. no 2 wounds. the only thing speaking for him is the fnp bubble. on his own he can do nothing compared to a paladin apothecary

Souba
Brother Captain
Brother Captain

Number of posts : 1574
Age : 30
Location : Berlin, Germany
Army : Inquisitorial Army, Necrons, Dark Eldar, Daemons of Chaos
Registration date : 2009-11-07

Grey knight
stats:

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Narthecium worth the points?

Post by SmokinBrown on Sat Jun 22, 2013 7:41 pm

+1

A paladin apothecary is more expensive because he is keeping better troops alive.

SB

SmokinBrown
Grey Knight
Grey Knight

Number of posts : 251
Age : 25
Location : UK, North West
Army : Grey Knights, Necrons, The Empire
Registration date : 2011-05-09

Grey knight
stats:

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Narthecium worth the points?

Post by DonFer on Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:31 pm

But still too expensive, nevertheless.
In the case of a Sanguinary Priest, he offers much more armywide than a Paladin apothecary. Your entire army can benefit from FNP and Furious Charge, making them more resilient and better at CC. By itself he can pack an array of weapons and equipment that make him a very versatile and effective IC.
 
On the other hand you the paladin apohecary is just an upgrade for an already resilient unit, that doesn't actually need FNP. Paladins are tanks and as such they'll get targeted by Meltas, plasmas and lascannons, for which (except plasmas) FNP is no good anyways.
 
So I'd say the Sanguinary Priest is a better unit in every way.


Last edited by DonFer on Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:30 am; edited 1 time in total

DonFer
Terminator
Terminator

Number of posts : 1398
Age : 41
Registration date : 2010-10-21

Grey knight
stats:

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Narthecium worth the points?

Post by SmokinBrown on Tue Jun 25, 2013 3:43 am

You can still take FNP against plasma. It only instant death that negates it now, not ap 1 and 2 weapons.

SB

SmokinBrown
Grey Knight
Grey Knight

Number of posts : 251
Age : 25
Location : UK, North West
Army : Grey Knights, Necrons, The Empire
Registration date : 2011-05-09

Grey knight
stats:

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Narthecium worth the points?

Post by DonFer on Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:31 am

Oh, that's what I meant (I wrote expect instead of except) sorry about that.

DonFer
Terminator
Terminator

Number of posts : 1398
Age : 41
Registration date : 2010-10-21

Grey knight
stats:

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Narthecium worth the points?

Post by Sponsored content Today at 7:45 am


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 :: Tactica

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum