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Tau, Tau Tau, Shoot, Shoot and shoot some more

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Post by first strike Wed Apr 17, 2013 6:51 pm

So the newbook has hit and we have all had some time for it to sink in. After playing some games against it here are some things that have stuck out.
1. Markerlights are realy good/bad. Tau can now use 2 markerlight hits to remove all of a units cover save no matter what it is. OMG. Pathfinders are now the first thing I will be removing from the board.
2.Tau dont realy care if it is night fighting or not (not a big change there)
3. Tau now have a lot more firepower then they had before and a lot of it can get skyfire, interceptor or both.
4. If you have not softened up tau first with your own shooting then charging them is a bad idea.
5. Broardsides with missile pods are one of the most usefull units they have, with good strength firepower coming out of ever poreand a good armour save.
6. Tau are perfect to add to just about any army that can have them.

Basic plans I have come up with for fighting them is based on target prioity. First Pathfinders must be removed or reduced in numbers ASAP. 2nd anything with long range and the ability to pen armour will need to go next. From this point you can keep them at range (18" to 24") and stormbolter them to death, if you get closer then this they will cut you apart with their rapid fire high strength weapons.
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Post by Souba Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:04 pm

1. markerlights can also increase the BS for snapfireing units by 1 per point spend. pathfinders only got a 5+ armorsave now so bolter them away (with divination it aint that hard. especially with the ignores cover)

2. yeah nothing changed much

3. only few units can have both, skyfire and interceptor.

4. firewarriors also got defensive grenades as standard so be careful.

5. broadsides with missles got a 36" S 7 ap 4 heavy 4 profile that ignore cover and dont neet LoS. that and they are twinlinked. note that they still are not relentless so they are mainly stationary.

6. i agree completely.

in addition tau have now fewer acces to high strength weapons that can penetrate AV14. they got 18" meltas for crisis however. other than that there are only the heavy tanks to watch out for. one or 2 landraider can surely come to advantage as most tau go the plasma route now.
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Post by first strike Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:55 pm

Back to point 1, while they can still increase snapfire B.S they cannot be used for overwatch. Main rule book F.A.Q.
And yes both armour 13 and 14 will give them some trouble now as they will have to get lucky to take them out, but this is the same for most armies, Tau just had more tools to deal with it before.
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Post by Souba Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:21 pm

1. direct quote from the new Codex : Tau page 68:
"Pinpoint:
All models firing at the target as part of this shooting
attack gain a bonus to their Ballistic Skill for the
duration of the shooting attack. The size of this
bonus is equal to the number of markerlight counters
expended on this ability. Pinpoint can increase the
Ballistic Skill of Snap Shots and Overwatch."

as codex > BRB this does work.

however, markerlight tokens get removed at the end of the phase. so for markerlights to be able to be used at overwatch you have to make use of the supporting fire rule.

a example: GK player assaults a unit of firewarriors. the firewarriors are withing 6" of a pathfinder squad. the pathfinder squad uses supporting fire and uses his markerlights to overwatch. 2 hit and those 2 token can be used for the fire warriors to increase their snapfire BS from 1 to 3.
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Post by first strike Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:02 pm

Q: Can the BS1 of a Snap Shot ever be modified by special rules that modify the BS of a model’s Shooting attack (such as Taumarker lights, Space Marine Signumsor Sergeant Telion’s Voice of Experience)? (p13)
A: No.
However you are corect, codex does over rule rulebook. So supporting fire and net worked markerlights will help them with this.
Also markerlights will make Flying M.Cs take a test to fall from the sky, "curse you lazer pointers".
Lets see if they put out another FAQ for them soon.
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Post by Souba Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:30 am

do not forget that the rulebook errata still is in its march update, not april. wich is the new tau codex release.
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Post by SmokinBrown Sat May 04, 2013 9:56 am

Souba wrote:1. markerlights can also increase the BS for snapfireing units by 1 per point spend. pathfinders only got a 5+ armorsave now so bolter them away (with divination it aint that hard. especially with the ignores cover)

2. yeah nothing changed much

3. only few units can have both, skyfire and interceptor.

4. firewarriors also got defensive grenades as standard so be careful.

5. broadsides with missles got a 36" S 7 ap 4 heavy 4 profile that ignore cover and dont neet LoS. that and they are twinlinked. note that they still are not relentless so they are mainly stationary.

6. i agree completely.

in addition tau have now fewer acces to high strength weapons that can penetrate AV14. they got 18" meltas for crisis however. other than that there are only the heavy tanks to watch out for. one or 2 landraider can surely come to advantage as most tau go the plasma route now.

Regarding point 5, doesn't everything equipped with a jet pack have the relentless special rule?

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Post by Embolden40k Sat May 04, 2013 10:41 am

SmokinBrown wrote:

Regarding point 5, doesn't everything equipped with a jet pack have the relentless special rule?

Nope, was looking for that the other day.

EDIT: I didn't read right lol, thought it was Jump pack?? lol


Last edited by Embolden40k on Sat May 04, 2013 12:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by bigbri Sat May 04, 2013 11:49 am

SmokinBrown wrote:
Souba wrote:1. markerlights can also increase the BS for snapfireing units by 1 per point spend. pathfinders only got a 5+ armorsave now so bolter them away (with divination it aint that hard. especially with the ignores cover)

2. yeah nothing changed much

3. only few units can have both, skyfire and interceptor.

4. firewarriors also got defensive grenades as standard so be careful.

5. broadsides with missles got a 36" S 7 ap 4 heavy 4 profile that ignore cover and dont neet LoS. that and they are twinlinked. note that they still are not relentless so they are mainly stationary.

6. i agree completely.

in addition tau have now fewer acces to high strength weapons that can penetrate AV14. they got 18" meltas for crisis however. other than that there are only the heavy tanks to watch out for. one or 2 landraider can surely come to advantage as most tau go the plasma route now.

Regarding point 5, doesn't everything equipped with a jet pack have the relentless special rule?

SB
Yep all jetpack units are relentless(pg 47 BRB)

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Post by Souba Sat May 04, 2013 12:05 pm

broadsides are infantry. not jetpack infantry. so no relentless.
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Post by SmokinBrown Sat May 04, 2013 12:28 pm

But a broadside battle suit counts as being equipped with jetpack doesn't it? Thout i read that somewhere in the tau codex, where it describes the different suits and their special rules?

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Post by Souba Sat May 04, 2013 12:50 pm

yup its page 70 of the codex.
all stealth, crisis, broadside and riptide suits are automatically armed with multi- trackers and blacksun filters.

blacksun filter : night vision special rule and are immune to the blind special rule.
multi-tracker: a model with this rule can fire a additional weapon in each shooting phases.

relentless comes from the unit type jetpack infantry. wich are crisis, stealth suits and the riptide.
the broadside suits however are infantry and as such dont get relentless.
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Post by SmokinBrown Sat May 04, 2013 1:02 pm

Ah ok, thanks for pointing me in the right direction. I don't actually own the codex and was just going off memory lol, which let me down Sad

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Post by DonFer Mon May 06, 2013 8:47 am

Well, the trick is to have very reliable markerlights. The rest is just easy. With the use of ML, you can simply ignore the Snap Shooting for movement or skyfiring (if you didn't buy the velocity tracker upgrade). It's a great unit, with high firepower.
This weekend I tried them in a mini tournament, as allies. Man they put out some hurt. 8 missiles a turn each is just overkill. I equiped them with Shield Drones for increased survibality.
But I think Crisis are better, you can now equip them with up to three independant Missile pods for a whooping 6 S7 shots a turn. Even with 4 S7 Shots they're fantastic. Tau are the best allies out there, me thinks. And for GK they can really add to our already great fire power.
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Post by SmokinBrown Mon May 06, 2013 9:19 am

Again this might be my memory letting me down lol.... But if you take three of the same weapon on a crisis suit aren't two of them twin linked? Also can they fire three different weapons a turn? Is that some suit system thing?

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Post by Souba Mon May 06, 2013 10:41 am

you can take 3 of the same weapon as of the current tau errata. however you are still restricted to only shoot 2 out of the 3. still its very effective. for example a unit of 3 crisis each with 2 missle pods and a flamer can be a good alrounder unit that also is able to lay down some hurt on overwatch thanks to the flamers.
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Post by bigbri Mon May 06, 2013 11:38 am

Since the FAQ I've been running 3 suits and a commander all with 2 x plasma rifles + advanced targeting system. Insane number of chances to snipe specific models. Thinking of switching to dual fusion blasters though for the str8 ID possibilities.

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Post by Vindicare Fri May 10, 2013 1:50 pm

Hi Everyone,

Since were looking at Tau in this post and potential list builds, I was wondering if anyone could comment on some of the death stars that have been popping up on the internet. "The Farsight Bomb" or "Shadow-sight Bomb" are two deathstars that have been becoming popular at a few gaming stores that I play at, and some of the armies that have played them appear to be having a tough time handling them because of the maneuverability, durability and firepower they can dish out.

I have also read on other forums that elite armies like ours will have a tough time fighting these DS because we lack numbers and AP3 templates

I haven't faced one myself just yet but i will soon since my friend plays Tau and likes to run DS units whenever he can. Any ideas as to how we might be able to handle them?
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Post by Tiberius Fri May 10, 2013 3:33 pm

Vindicare wrote:Hi Everyone,

Since were looking at Tau in this post and potential list builds, I was wondering if anyone could comment on some of the death stars that have been popping up on the internet. "The Farsight Bomb" or "Shadow-sight Bomb" are two deathstars that have been becoming popular at a few gaming stores that I play at, and some of the armies that have played them appear to be having a tough time handling them because of the maneuverability, durability and firepower they can dish out.

I have also read on other forums that elite armies like ours will have a tough time fighting these DS because we lack numbers and AP3 templates

I haven't faced one myself just yet but i will soon since my friend plays Tau and likes to run DS units whenever he can. Any ideas as to how we might be able to handle them?

Coteaz + 3 plasma cannon servitors + 3 plasma rifle acolytes. Spread some warp quake around your half of the field, leaving a safe spot within his 12" bubble. Prescience from Coteaz and then watch as the deep strike circle formation leads to each direct hit by a PC resulting in 7 plasma hits. With prescience, each BS3 PC has roughly 60% to hit. Let's say one full hit, one miss as well as one slight scatter leaving us with 3.5 (3-4) hits. The acolytes also average 4.5 hits. This leaves us with 15 plasma hits, wounding on 2+. 12,5 wounds, or six dead suits. If it's a shadowsight star this is less effective as you'd only kill 3 suits due to the 4+ cover. Shield drones also complicates things, but the more drones the higher possibility of scoring hits due to their smaller bases.

This does not immediately counter the bomb, but it lets you soften it up before it gets to do anything. If you end up with three direct cannon hits, you would leave the squad little more than a standard crisis team. This squad also has the benefit of being able to slaughter anything else arriving by deep strike near it. Don't forget to warp quake. Very Happy

Edit: Don't forget that a farsight bomb has more than a 5" radius footprint, or 7" with a layer of drones. Warp Quake greatly limits where it can deploy even without Coteaz.
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Post by first strike Sat May 11, 2013 5:27 pm

I think that Grey Knights can handle a farsight bomb better then other marine armies, the ues of warp quake (while you will not kill it with this due to lack of scatter) to position the bomb where you want it and coteaz is about the best way to deal with this unit, also bubble wraping units has always been key to playing deepstriking armies, this is where you place the unit you cannot afford to lose in the middle of a group of units who can take the hits and keep the opp out of range or in position for a counter attack. The issue with farsight is that he is fast, has lots of firepower, but we can get around this with jump inf (interceptors) and Dreadkinghts. He will have to play a different game where he cannot get caught bacause like most tau, they do not like hand to hand, he will have to stick to the edges of the army and pick away at what you want him to, or run the risk of getting charged (normaly by 2 units) and destroyed. These units are also expensive, so if you can catch it early, you will remove a large part of his force which he has based his army around.
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Post by Vindicare Mon May 13, 2013 11:12 am

Thanks for the replies brothers! I really appreciate it Smile I was thinking along similar lines. here is a 1500pt list then I think i might run to address this kind of army.

HQ:

1. Coteaz 100pt
2. Ordo Xenos: with plasma syphon: 35pt

Elite:

Callidus Assassin-145pt

Troops:

1. Henchmen: 3 servitors with Plasma cannons- 60pts
2. 3 Acolytes with Plasma Guns: 32pt
probably attach them to Coteaz.

3. Grey knight Strike Squad: 10 man, with 2 Psycannons, 4 Halberds and 1 Hammer. (250pt) halberds may be removed. (unit will probably be combat squaded to provide 2 warp quake bubbles.

- Dedicated transport, Razorback with Assault Cannons and psybolt ammo (primarily used as close quarter fire support platform)

4. Grey Knight Termies: 5 man team, psycannon, and psybolt ammo, one with hammer, other 4 either swords or halberds. (245pt) with ordo xenos attached.

Fast Attack:

1. Interceptor squad: 10 man team, 2 psycannons, 9 swords 1 hammer, although may use points from SS to give them 4 halberds. Combat squaded to increase warp quake bubble. 290pt

Heavy Support:

nemesis Dreadknight: 255pt
Heavy Psycannon and Daemon Hammer and teleport pack


total should be 1497pt.

I think this list gives me a good warp quake bubble that should prevent the farsight bomb from being dropped right in front of my lines, and this should save the majority of my army from being shot to bits within the first 2 turns from it.
The callidus assassin would primarily be the answer to dealing with a pathfinder squad or fire warrior team camping an objective.

Dreadknight I am not sure if I want to deep strike it or have it shunt across the battlefield, but I believe the primary target for the dreadknight though should be dealing with any tau armor, and then assist in cornering the death star.

The SS and termies will form my main battle line and will initially stay stationary until I know where the "bomb" pops up. From there I want them to attract most of the attention of the DS and try to corral the Deathstar so that if it tries to jump away it will either be pushed into the interceptors or dreadknight. Ideally I would like to see 2-3 units attacking this Deathstar, as it can pump out a lot of overwatch shots.

Coteaz and the henchmen will primarily focus fire on the deathstarm hopefully I can drop a few drones and suits prior to the assault.

finally the interceptors i think will be the main unit I want to try to get into CC with the death star as they do have some speed, and keep it there long enough unit the dreadknight or strike squad can arrive. I may also use the shunt to get into close combat with his troops and kill those off quickly if the match is based on objectives.

The only thing I may need to adjust tactics for is if he fields the farsight or shadowsight bomb on the field rather than in Deep strike.

Let me know what you think.

Cheers Vindicare.
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Post by Vecuu Mon May 13, 2013 12:45 pm

That list has some striking similarities to what I like to run (which is a core of Coteaz, 10GKSS, 10 GKIS, and 2-4 various Henchmen Warbands [one of which is usually a DCA/Crusader squad in a LRC]). Just a couple of points that stick out to me:

Interceptors are expensive. In a lot of situations, you will wish you had 10 GKSS and a Transport for them. They are not, in any way shape or form, a CC unit. Unlike Assault Marines who start with BP and CCW to get 3 attacks on the charge, Interceptors only have their 1 attack base and charge bonus to go off of. The thing about Interceptors is that they 36'' threat range with shooting shooting, and can play the kite game until you get a key Shunt to win the game. I do not feel like they would do very well against a Farsight Bomb.

The Plasma Cannon servitor squad, however, I think is potent enough to warrant taking two if you're forking out the points for a cheap Inquisitor.

The Dreadknight is going to die a horrible, horrible death, and make you feel like you wasted Land Raider level points. Also, the Hammer is not worth it. Stick to Fists.

I feel like against a lot of current Tau lists, the best lists for GK will be either a Power Armored foot list, or MSU style Purifier Psycannon Spam. But this is just my gut talking, as I haven't seriously fought the new Tau yet with my GKs.
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Post by Vindicare Mon May 13, 2013 4:25 pm

thanks for the response Vecuu!

To be honest I was never big on running coteaz or henchmen in my lists back in 5th edition, I was totally a puritan army of just knights. However because there have been so many changes in 6th I have found that I have needed to expand into the henchmen section of the codex just to give myself some more diversity and access to better fire power. My new lists I do included DCAs as well Crusaders but I tend to keep them in Storm Ravens as LR's can be popped open just a little to easy for my taste.

I dont normally run interceptors and the reason being is like you said they are really expensive, but I included them in this list as I figured they could be useful to help the callidus along the tau gun line. If I can make quick work of his troops, the tau wouldnt be able to capture anything and I can get line breaker with them. If I do run them I will probably reduce their squad size to probably a 5 man team with a psycannon and maybe a hammer and like you suggested use them as a shoot and scoot unit rather than a CC one.

I agree about the dreadknight being probably a waste of points, i figured the template from the heavy psycannon might be useful for putting a large pie plate on the farsight bomb and kill a few of the shield drones, and by attaching the teleporter, like the interceptors create that 36 inch threat to the tau gunline. But I think I might just use those points to toss on another GKSS and a transport or some more henchmen as i now have 385 points freed up.

Like you I haven't played the new tau army yet either but I will be soon, as my friend has just finished acquiring all the tau models he needs to run these death stars. I figure if I can pitch a few lists on the forum and spark a discussion on how we can tweek them I can give them a shot as to how they go against the tau and that Death Star and give a bit of feedback.

Thanks again brother Vecuu

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Post by Sai Mon May 13, 2013 4:55 pm

I included them in this list as I figured they could be useful to help the callidus along the tau gun line. If I can make quick work of his troops, the tau wouldnt be able to capture anything and I can get line breaker with them.

I did the same in a 2000 point game a couple of weeks back. It's expensive, but if you can find the points go with incinerators. The high mobility lets you put the templates where you need them and they instagib ethereals and fireblades as a bonus. I put the heavy incinerator on the dreadknight too- it kills drones as well as the pieplate but is also useful for roasting pathfinders in cover with their markerlights. If you can take out all the pathfinders by turn 2 and be in his backline wiping out firewarriors by turn 3 you're probably most of the way there in terms of winning through objectives.

A deathstar can only kill a unit a turn after all. Send Thawn, he likes taking plasma to the face.
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Number of posts : 754
Age : 41
Registration date : 2010-12-04

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Tau, Tau Tau, Shoot, Shoot and shoot some more Empty Re: Tau, Tau Tau, Shoot, Shoot and shoot some more

Post by Vindicare Tue May 14, 2013 6:20 am

"It's expensive, but if you can find the points go with incinerators. The high mobility lets you put the templates where you need them and they instagib ethereals and fireblades as a bonus."

"A deathstar can only kill a unit a turn after all. Send Thawn, he likes taking plasma to the face."

If I run the list I originally posted and then drop the Dreadknight and drop my interceptor squad to a 5 man, I should be able to squeeze in a bare bones 10 man strike squad with a psycannon, another Razorback with a assault cannon, an incinerator for the incereptor squad and then also upgrade the justicar of the termies to Thawn Smile


Last edited by Vindicare on Tue May 14, 2013 6:21 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : dont know how to edit)
Vindicare
Vindicare
Henchmen
Henchmen

Number of posts : 68
Age : 34
Location : Canada
Army : Grey Knights, Eldar, High Elves, Red Scropions
Registration date : 2011-08-10

Grey knight
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Tau, Tau Tau, Shoot, Shoot and shoot some more Empty Re: Tau, Tau Tau, Shoot, Shoot and shoot some more

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