Shifting with the Meta 1850pt Army List (Competitive)

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Shifting with the Meta 1850pt Army List (Competitive)

Post by Embolden40k on Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:54 am

Hey guys,

For the past month or so since being basically battered by a tripple helldrake list at a large tournament here in the UK, I've since lost a couple of games due to Helldrakes clearing objectives on turn5/6 losing me the game.

So I'm having to take the difficult choice of switching my list a little and here is the result:

Mal Inquisitor - Termi Armour, Halberd, Psycannon, Lvl1 Psyker (Communion/Divination roll), Servo Skull - 113
10 Strikes - 2 Psycannons, Justicar, Halberd, Razorback, Psybolt Ammo, Searchlight - 276
10 Strikes - 2 Psycannons, Justicar, Halberd, Razorback, Psybolt Ammo, Searchlight - 276
10 Terminators - 1 Psycannon, 1 Incinerator, 3 Hammers, 5 Halberds, 2 Swords - 430
Storm Raven - TL Lascannon, TL Multimelta - 205
Dreadknight - Heavy Incinerator - 160
Dreadnought - 2 Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo - 135
Dreadnought - 2 Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo - 135

1730pts

This is the core of my force, the basic plan is to form 2 blocks, one will contain the shooty elements on my list, both Strike squads and the Terminators combat squad (Strikes split into 2 Psycannons/3 Swords and 4 Swords/1 Justicar with Halberd) (Terminators split into Psycannon, 2 Swords, 2 Halberd, 1 Hammer and 2 Hammers, 3 Halberds, Incinerator).

So the Psycannons squads sit a little back with the Dreadnoughts and then move up to support later in the game, while the 'Assault' elements move forwards turn1, the Strikes in Razorbacks, the Incinerator Terminators sometimes go in the Storm Raven and the Dreadknight will support these.

But I still have 120pts to spend...

I'm tempted by 3 or 4 options, but please feel free to suggest your own:

1) Coteaz + upgrading the Incinerator on the Terminators to a Psycannon or give the whole Termi squad Psybolt Ammo or 5 Warrior Henchman for a 4rd/7th Scoring unit - This gives the Terminators a chance to Combat squad and deploy on the table or keep as a Death Star and blast everything away and Coteaz brings 2 rolls to the Divination table.

2) A second Mal Inquisitor with Psycannon and Psyker lvl1 upgrade and spend the few pts on more Halberds or a Hammer - Will give me a second roll on the Divination table and another Psycannon.

3) A third Strike squad 5 Man with 1 Psycannon and 2 Halberds - Another scoring unit is nothing to sniff at, plus they give me another Psycannon.

4) Give all 3 Troop squads Psybolt Ammo, giving me 60pts to spend on something, but what? I was thinking of a cheap Inquisitor with: Rad Grenades? Then upgrading the Incinerator in the Terminator squad to a Psycannon.

Any help/suggestions will be greatly received!

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Re: Shifting with the Meta 1850pt Army List (Competitive)

Post by volvoe on Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:59 am

mm if flyers are your main concern you could run an aegis defense line with a gun. I mean I'm pretty sure the hell drake has like AV 12 (at best) with a 5++ save. That means you have to pelt them with as many shots as possible and hope you glance them to death. Getting a quad gun vs. Icarus lascannon will just depend on your own playstyle. I'd use the quad gun simply because you get more shots but an AV 12 means you're glancing on 6's. The lascannon is a one shot/trick pony, yes it'll be easier to penn but you only have 1 shot a turn they do have a 5++ save. If you could kit out your storm raven to have an assault cannon + psybolt ammunition + hurricane bolters that would be some good air support in my opinion. But its just really expensive.

For your list, Razorbacks can only fit 6 people, so I'm guessing you're going to be combat squading your squads or making foot slog behind. You could make the into Rhinos and still CC your squads. Now you have psycannon shots out the of the rhino instead of the heavy bolter (mind the 12" difference in range now though). For the OMI, terminator armor already gives you a NDH, I'm not sure why you're giving him a halberd (making you pay more for less). Making him a Psyker gives you a Force weapon, not a nemesis force weapon. You don't want him to be accepting challenges because he's relatively weak (i.e. S3/T3). Giving him a hammer is imo the best option.

If you're playing against Chaos I don't see how you would lose because Grey Knights are the bane to daemons Razz If the opponent is running a heavy flyer list I usually aim for his troops or his scoring units to secure the game. Run more Psyflemen dreads if you want to get rid of those flyers. In a 2000 point game you could even run ven. dreads (which aren't as worth it) if you want to relieve your heavy support slots. I'm not sure if the HellDrakes would be able to deal with a Land Raider and not sure what else the other opponent is running but I'm sure our codex has an answer to anything daemon. If you really want to be competitive then I have to say Coteaz is the most cost efficient and best HQ for competitive play. Oh and always try to give your squad psybolt ammunition, stronger dakka means more wounds. Hope this helps.

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Re: Shifting with the Meta 1850pt Army List (Competitive)

Post by DOMIN4TRIX on Sun Mar 31, 2013 12:01 pm

Swap the OM Inq for Cortaez - lose a psycannon, gain tactical advantage with I've been expecting you and spy network as well as ML2........... 133pts

Regain the lost psycannon by replacing the incinerator in the terminator squad.......... 113pts

Switch the loadout on two termintors to hammers - you need a hammer in each terminator combat squad to prevent being tarpitted by assault dreadnoughts......... 113pts

Come up with some ingenius henchmen filler for the remaining 113 points:

7 crusaders for the stormraven

3 x 3 heavy bolter / multi-melta servitors to play solo and fire 50% of the time

3 x 3 special weapons teams to run behind the razorbacks with plasma, flamer or melta.

3 x 6 stormbolter acolytes to do the same as above

Just some ideas for cheap, scoring fillers








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Re: Shifting with the Meta 1850pt Army List (Competitive)

Post by first strike on Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:55 pm

I think that the tripple Dragon days are numbered with the new Tau codex coming out and they will be changing there list a bit to keep up with them (broadsides are S8 twinlinked A.P 1 with skyfire, so when the tau place 9 of these on the table the dragons will not be having a lit of fun)
My first thought was to go with option 1, then I was potion 4 and realised you did not have psy bolts on all your squads so this is where I would head.

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Re: Shifting with the Meta 1850pt Army List (Competitive)

Post by Embolden40k on Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:33 am

volvoe wrote:mm if flyers are your main concern you could run an aegis defense line with a gun. I mean I'm pretty sure the hell drake has like AV 12 (at best) with a 5++ save. That means you have to pelt them with as many shots as possible and hope you glance them to death. Getting a quad gun vs. Icarus lascannon will just depend on your own playstyle. I'd use the quad gun simply because you get more shots but an AV 12 means you're glancing on 6's. The lascannon is a one shot/trick pony, yes it'll be easier to penn but you only have 1 shot a turn they do have a 5++ save. If you could kit out your storm raven to have an assault cannon + psybolt ammunition + hurricane bolters that would be some good air support in my opinion. But its just really expensive.


Not really flyers per-say, it's just the Helldrake, a lascannon would be the best option, but it's still dicey... and for 85pts, I have nothing to really utilise it, BS5 or TL, because the Inq will be moving forward with the Terminators, so thats a no-no. Plus the guadgun has been pants, I tried it (not in this list mind). But AV12 tends to laugh at STR7. Unless I take a 55pts Inq with LVL1 Psyker and a Lascannon, so would need to find 20pts from the list or could drop the OMI from TA and the Psycannon and stick him with a load of Warrior Acolytes both are tempting options.

For your list, Razorbacks can only fit 6 people, so I'm guessing you're going to be combat squading your squads or making foot slog behind. You could make the into Rhinos and still CC your squads. Now you have psycannon shots out the of the rhino instead of the heavy bolter (mind the 12" difference in range now though). For the OMI, terminator armor already gives you a NDH, I'm not sure why you're giving him a halberd (making you pay more for less). Making him a Psyker gives you a Force weapon, not a nemesis force weapon. You don't want him to be accepting challenges because he's relatively weak (i.e. S3/T3). Giving him a hammer is imo the best option.

Combat squading is how this list will go, the Strikes split into shooty and assaulty, the Psycannons deploy a little deeper with the Justicar and 4 friends in Razorback bomb forward turn1. Similar for the Terminators exept they run forwards.

The OMI doesn't pay any more for a Halberd than he does a Hammer, plus with the new Chaos and Daemons there champions/squad leaders have to Challenge, so having him beat them down before they can attack is big, I was using a Sword, but he was struggling like crazy, not going first. The Hammer was okay.. but again, when facing off against a MC or something with AP2, he's dead before he can even swing, I think more playtesting is needed!

If you're playing against Chaos I don't see how you would lose because Grey Knights are the bane to daemons Razz If the opponent is running a heavy flyer list I usually aim for his troops or his scoring units to secure the game. Run more Psyflemen dreads if you want to get rid of those flyers. In a 2000 point game you could even run ven. dreads (which aren't as worth it) if you want to relieve your heavy support slots. I'm not sure if the HellDrakes would be able to deal with a Land Raider and not sure what else the other opponent is running but I'm sure our codex has an answer to anything daemon. If you really want to be competitive then I have to say Coteaz is the most cost efficient and best HQ for competitive play. Oh and always try to give your squad psybolt ammunition, stronger dakka means more wounds. Hope this helps.

The Ven dread, like you said, is WAAAAY to expensive, I really like the Dreadknight, so the HS is pretty set, 2 Dreads and a Dreadknight.

The Landraider would be an option, but I would have to drop both Dreads and I'm not really willing to do that, plus the money to purchase a LR is not feasible for now.

The list I'm having a problem against is: 2 Winged DP of Nurgle (Shrouding and 2 rolls on Biomancy, flying, 1 with Brand), 2x10 Cultists (reserve), 3 Helldrakes, Warboss in mega armour, boss pole, 2x30 Boys with big shootas and 10 Lootaz, Aegis, Comms relay.

Or another list I played against, 1 Winged DP of Tzeench (had endurance and Power Armour and 4+ inv), 2x10 Marines, 20+ Cultists, 3 Oblits with Mark of Nurgle, Defiler, 2 Helldrakes and Aegis with Quadgun.

DOMIN4TRIX wrote:Swap the OM Inq for Cortaez - lose a psycannon, gain tactical advantage with I've been expecting you and spy network as well as ML2........... 133pts
Regain the lost psycannon by replacing the incinerator in the terminator squad.......... 113pts
Switch the loadout on two termintors to hammers - you need a hammer in each terminator combat squad to prevent being tarpitted by assault dreadnoughts......... 113pts
Come up with some ingenius henchmen filler for the remaining 113 points:
7 crusaders for the stormraven
3 x 3 heavy bolter / multi-melta servitors to play solo and fire 50% of the time
3 x 3 special weapons teams to run behind the razorbacks with plasma, flamer or melta.
3 x 6 stormbolter acolytes to do the same as above
Just some ideas for cheap, scoring fillers

Tempting choices there, I like the idea of dropping the OMI for Coteaz and giving the Psycannon back to the Terminators.

The Terminators have 3 Hammers, 5 Halberds and 2 Swords already. 2 Hammers in the Combat squad moving more aggressive,

I really like the idea of an assault element out the Storm Raven if I've giving the Psycannon back to the Terminators.

One option which you touched on, has anyone had any success with 10 Warrior Acolytes, 7 Storm Bolters and 3 Flamers?

Or I could go Inq Psyker Lvl1 (divination) 5 Warrior Acolytes, 3 Plasmaguns, would be a nice treat jumping out a Storm Raven in the latter turns of the game. Of course they would all die horribly in an explosion.

Cheers, lots of food for thought!


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Re: Shifting with the Meta 1850pt Army List (Competitive)

Post by Embolden40k on Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:57 am

first strike wrote:I think that the tripple Dragon days are numbered with the new Tau codex coming out and they will be changing there list a bit to keep up with them (broadsides are S8 twinlinked A.P 1 with skyfire, so when the tau place 9 of these on the table the dragons will not be having a lit of fun)
My first thought was to go with option 1, then I was potion 4 and realised you did not have psy bolts on all your squads so this is where I would head.

heres hoping! I could even be tempted to use the Tau as allies for that reason, Grey Knights inherently struggle to deal with AV12 Flyers, so some Skyfire would be most welcome.

Right, so after a quick think:

OMI - Psycannon, Termi Armour, Hammer (STR3 Halberd just doesn't work), Psyker Lvl1, Servo Skull - 113
10 Strikes - 2 Psycannons, Justicar Halberd, Psybolt Ammo, Razorback, Psybolt, Searchlight - 296
10 Strikes - 2 Psycannons, Justicar Halberd, Psybolt Ammo, Razorback, Psybolt, Searchlight - 296
10 Terminators - 2 Psycannons, 3 Hammers, 2 Swords, 5 Halberds, Psybolt Ammo - 470
Storm Raven - TL Lascannon, TL Multimelta - 205
Dreadnought - 2 Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo - 135
Dreadnought - 2 Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo - 135
Dreadknight - Heavy Incinerator - 160
1810

So I still have 40pts to spend...

Basically I gave all 3 squads Psybolt Ammo and a second Psycannon to the Terminator squad.

So this leaves me with a couple of ways to fill the pts...

Option1: 2 Hammers on the Strikes (not Justicars) and a Stave on the Terminator Justicar
Option2: 1 Hammer, 1 Halberd on the Strikes and Brother Banner on the Terminators
Option3: Heavy Psycannon on the Dreadknight
Option4: Drop the OMI - Take Coteaz then spend the 50odd pts on scoring filler units 2x6 Warrior Acolytes or 1x12 Warrior Acolytes or 7 Warrior Acolytes with Storm Bolters or any other combination of scoring Henchman squad(s).

Choices choices!

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Re: Shifting with the Meta 1850pt Army List (Competitive)

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