Lemmings?

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Lemmings?

Post by DOMIN4TRIX on Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:53 am

Has anyone tried running an army where the troops only role was to score. No upgrades. Lemmings to be guided to objectives.

For less than 300pts we can have 72 lemmings. That's about the price of 10 marines in a rhino for our codex. Even if you gave them all stormbolters which would make them actually quite handy for anti infantry, your still looking at under 450pts.

The only catch is we need to take Cortaez - one of the best HQ's in the game.

And this doesnt need to be our only scoring presence either, With a GM as a second HQ, any other troops we take from another slot can potentially score (palladins, purifiers, interceptors, knights and noughts) not to mention the possibilty of allies.

It would leave all available points devoted to the things that can't be ignored by the enemy.

Just the ramblings of a man thats obsessed with the Inquisition side of the codex. Here's a guard list example because I was reading 3++ and thought i'd have a go.

http://www.3plusplus.net/2013/03/optimising-allies-imperials-and-guard/

Cortaez

5 Purifiers / 2 psycannon / 3 halberd (Cortaez here)

10 Purifiers / 4 psycannon / 4 halberd / 2 hammer (combat squadded)

6 x 12 Acolytes / stormbolters

3 Psydread's

Company Command squad / 4 melta-gun's

Platoon Command squad / 4 melta-gun's

10 Infantry squad (in Vendetta)

Vendetta

Demolisher

That should leave plenty to play with @ 1999pts. Second Vendetta?

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Re: Lemmings?

Post by first strike on Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:10 pm

The Storm Bolter Accolites when run in numbers are very good, 6 groups of 12 means that we have 72 men, with 144 stormbolter shots coming out at 24", hitting 72 times with 36W a turn at T4, and 11 to 12 W on marines with a 3+ save (on average). It gets even better if you are up against guard or nids, would never call them lemings.
3++ is a hard gaming site so nothing coming from there is ever going to be sub par.
And yes a second vandetta would be the way to go, gives you a better then average chance of takeing down a srotmraven.

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Re: Lemmings?

Post by DonFer on Fri Mar 22, 2013 7:07 am

Mass infantry is a way to drown your opponent in so many bodies he won't be able to deal with all of them (specially in this meta where everyone uses high S pinpoint weapons). Except if this list ever comes against NDKs with Heavy incins or Helldrakes, or redeemers or any torrent weapon for that matter. Template weapons are the bane of such lists.

I saw one such a list playing against a chaos list, 2 Helldrakes, plague marines, and whatnot. Shooting was indeed awesome for the first couple of turns, and managed to kill a decent ammount of units. But come chaos turn, the thing went from awesome to tragic. Blast weapons would wound on 2+ no saves, bolter fire would take another chunk of the acolites. And finally the helldrakes would vector strike and finish the survivors with the baleflamer. It was like watching Warmachine, the GK player not ever did roll an armour save (some cover saves of course but nothing else).Long story short, only the GK part of the list survived and acolites were erased from the table on turn 4. The big problem? Footslogging. No way your acolites will ever survive to footslogging.

A alternative to this is reducing the number of bodies, and adding either RBs or Chimeras. Cheap transports and double survibality is better me thinks.

Acolites are great but very fragile.

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Re: Lemmings?

Post by first strike on Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:48 pm

+1

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Re: Lemmings?

Post by DOMIN4TRIX on Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:32 pm

Thanks first strike and Donfer especially - it's great to have your input as you've seen this on the table top. Theory hammer is no substitute for practical experience.

With the Helldrake specifically it's worrying to think that this would be the case even with PA GK's.

Yet again, reading your post, i'm convinced the only way to beat everything is to have a completely balanced list: 2+ / 3+ save troops and tee-shirt save hordes, AV 11 / 14 mech, the ability to get behind enemy lines and AA capability - and of course the ability to kill all of those in an opponent.

Until I find the one list to rule them all I'll keep shooting out crazy ideas like this because the feedback from this forum is second to none.

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Re: Lemmings?

Post by Vecuu on Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:19 am

It's close to impossible to create a "perfect" list that covers all of the bases. Every stipulation you add makes it harder to fit everything into a balanced list. Sure, you could just increase the point cost of your list, and you'll probably get exactly what you want between the 2k and 2500 point range. Thing is, so will your opponents, and you'll still end up running into those opponents who use those points to field 3 Land Raiders and a Bastion, or any equally silly list.

I say do what's fun. If walking 72 Storm Bolter Acolytes sounds fun, go for it.

The general is always going to be more important than the army he plays. With practice, you can get just about anything to work halfway-decently Smile

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Re: Lemmings?

Post by first strike on Sat Mar 23, 2013 3:08 pm

With your list t is all up to you, play to your strengths, the Storm Bolter Accolites give cheep, firepower, but not at a high strength. Take 3 squads. Get some transports for them (razors or chimeras), they do different jobs.

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Re: Lemmings?

Post by DonFer on Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:46 pm

+1! Very Happy

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Re: Lemmings?

Post by volvoe on Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:33 pm

I still think a 62 point Psyback (3 WA) is why Coteaz and the Inquisition is really good. Compared to what other (older) codexes are paying for their razorbacks, for 50 points we get an extra str TL heavy bolter shot (AP 4) with AV11. You're more than likely getting 3 hits and 3 wounds, killing most guardsmen, orks, necrons, etc. I mean people say that Rhinos are now just metal coffins but I still think that our cost effective Razorbacks is why we hold a superior advantage. It sucks that troops in vehicles cannot capture objectives now, but that's okay. Pop them out and use your vehicle to deny LOS.

I think DOM just wants a balanced list that could do well against all challengers. In all honesty, I think the Grey Knight Codex holds up really well by itself. It then comes down to play style and preference. It's not about how good your army is, it's how well you play your army.

With the Razorback Acoylate Spam you're essentially playing like Purifier Spam IMO. The trade off is a crappier HQ, but for more expensive, fearless, jacks of all trades, troops that kick ass. Sadly Acolytes don't get Psybolt Ammo either. So basically playing razorback spam of any sort you have your Dreads providing support as your vehicles go in for the kill. If your vehicles blow up you have the troops charge towards the objective as you still get heavy support raining death all around you. Now with Coteaz vs. Crowe it's all about what you would like: better support fire power or stronger troops? That bring me to my next question: Why not have both?

lol!

Although I enjoy playing more casual games with Mordrak, if I ever played in a tournament I would use what I call a Crowe Coteaz Combo. The list is still in the works, but you could get the idea of how it would work. I think Coteaz is the best competitive HQ we have. And I love playing Purifiers, so I've basically found my "balanced" list there.

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Re: Lemmings?

Post by DOMIN4TRIX on Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:03 pm

Agreed - Cortaez / Crowe - Acolytes / Purifiers compliment each other particularly well.

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Re: Lemmings?

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