Know thy Nemesis: the new Chaos Daemons know how:

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do you think some details will cause issues with GW?

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Re: Know thy Nemesis: the new Chaos Daemons know how:

Post by Souba on Sat Mar 02, 2013 6:11 pm

Constantine wrote:So soften them up with SB/Psycannon fire, and then jump in with a GM or Champ......
or soften them up and then jump in with the NDK but dont try to play heroic.. these beasts became so strong that they make the swarmlord hide under his bed.
the champ is able to take a greater daemon that is at full strength by himself and is 3 times cheaper

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Re: Know thy Nemesis: the new Chaos Daemons know how:

Post by Constantine on Sat Mar 02, 2013 6:21 pm

Sounds like our play style will need to utilize synergy and become more dynamic.

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Re: Know thy Nemesis: the new Chaos Daemons know how:

Post by Andarius the Red on Sat Mar 02, 2013 8:22 pm

I just read the faq for grey knights version 1.1

it seems that our nemesis daemonhammers have the daemonbane special rule, meaning that they can do the same thing that our force weapons can after a successful wound is made without rolling for a psychic test for the desired effect, the daemon or psyker has to pass a leadership test or die flat out.

this gives us a little more flexiblity, now we can use our psychic powers and auto-kill with impunity against HQ or greater daemons and thanks to our standard equipment of psyke-out grenades, all daemon opponents strike at Initiative 1 in combat against us, so we can actually get our hits in.

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Re: Know thy Nemesis: the new Chaos Daemons know how:

Post by Constantine on Sat Mar 02, 2013 9:05 pm

I am glad that these points are coming to light because things were looking pretty bleak for a while given the powerful nature of those greater Daemons Shocked

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+++"There is nothing in the arcane and blasphemous arsenal of the forces of Chaos that can compare to faith. With the power of faith, our weapons become shining instruments of deliverance that can cleave the mightiest daemon in twain. With the power of faith, our minds appear as slivers of pure agony to the daemon, driving into the wretched forms of those who would dare stand before us. With the power of faith, our words become commands that cause the daemon to cower and cringe in terror. I could meet my enemies unarmed without a shred of fear in my chest, for I know that the Emperor watches over me and guides my hand. So let them come. We shall show them what the power of faith can do."+++ (Brother Captain Stern)

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Re: Know thy Nemesis: the new Chaos Daemons know how:

Post by Souba on Sat Mar 02, 2013 9:13 pm

daemonbane is nice but the bigger daemons have a pretty high chance of passing the test. the ability is nice however but nothing to rely on.

also dont forget that psyk out grenades only work if you assault. not if the enemy does. a bloodthirster is a flying monstrous creature and that means he is very fast. if you fail to shoot him down and finish it quick or tarpit him he becomes a serious threat.
most of the time he decides when to start fighting. assaulting with possible 9-11 attacks on the charge all with high enough WS to hit everything in our dex on 3+ and enough strength to instant kill most of the GK units. coupled with a higher initiative than a grandmaster with halberd. sure he does not got assault grenades but the skullcannon can help him at that.

this book got huge potential because of its synergy. if a GK player however cuts those loose the daemonic threat becomes less fearsome. its not a overpowered book because of its randomness but if things really start rolling in the daemons favor (talking about warpstorms, gifts and instability) they may seem overpowered. if the gods dont look so good after them this book may seem underpowered.

i had 7 games now in total. 2 against GK at 1850 points. i will post a battle report later this evening if you guys want to get some insight of how a list can look and how to possibly counter its units.
(i mainly play tzeentch only but currently i am testing out all pure god lists and mixed lists to get a better knowledge of this books synergy overall)

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Re: Know thy Nemesis: the new Chaos Daemons know how:

Post by Rivan on Sat Mar 02, 2013 9:51 pm

Souba wrote:i had 7 games now in total. 2 against GK at 1850 points. i will post a battle report later this evening if you guys want to get some insight of how a list can look and how to possibly counter its units.
(i mainly play tzeentch only but currently i am testing out all pure god lists and mixed lists to get a better knowledge of this books synergy overall)

Yes please. I would definitely want to read those reports Smile

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Re: Know thy Nemesis: the new Chaos Daemons know how:

Post by Constantine on Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:11 pm

+1

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Re: Know thy Nemesis: the new Chaos Daemons know how:

Post by Aubec le noir on Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:54 am

+1
Aubec pirat

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Re: Know thy Nemesis: the new Chaos Daemons know how:

Post by Souba on Sun Mar 03, 2013 4:03 pm

As promised, here is my batrep:

My Chrono-God list:

(Warlord) Bloodthirster, 1 powerful gift, 1 exalted gift 300 pts

Herald of Slaanesh, steed of slaanesh, 1 Powerful Gift, Presence of Secudction 110pts

Herald of Tzeentch, psyker level 3, Presence of Conjuration, 1 exalted gift 150 pts

20 Pink Horrors. Banner of Curses, instrument of chaos 200 pts

11 pink horrors. instrument of chaos 109 pts

11 pink horrors. instrument of chaos 109 pts

11 pink horrors. instrument of chaos 109 pts

20 Seekers of Slaanesh, champion upgrade, banner of delight, instrument of chaos 275 pts

Skullcannon of Khorne 125 pts

Soulgrinder, Daemon of Nurgle, Phlegm 180 pts

Soulgrinder, Daemon of Nurgle, Phlegm 180 pts

1847 pts

The GK list:
(Warlord) Grandmaster, MC-Psycannon, MC-daemonhammer, psychostroke grenades, rad grenades 265 pts

OHI, psyker ML 1, psychollum 80 pts.

10 GKSS, 2 Psycannons, justicar with hammer, psybolt ammunition 250 pts

10 GKSS, 2 Psycannons, justicar with hammer, psybolt ammunition 250 pts

10 GKSS, 2 Psycannons, justicar with hammer, psybolt ammunition 250 pts

5 GKT, 1 Sword, 2 halberds (one with psycannon), 1 hammer, justicar with halberd 225 pts

Cybot, 2x Twinlinked autocannons, psybolt ammunition, searchlights 136 pts

Cybot, 2x Twinlinked autocannons, psybolt ammunition, searchlights 136 pts

NDK, Greatsword, Heavy Incinerator, Personal Teleporter 260 pts

1852 pts
We played mission 6. The Relic, with vanguard strike deployment.
I rolled for the Chaos Daemon warlord chart and rolled a 4: Immortal Leader, then I rolled for daemonic gifts. The bloodthirster rolled a 2 for his powerful gift and a 3 for his exalted gift. I decided to trade his exalted gift for the daemonic artifact : The eternal blade. So he got 2 specialist weapons now and a 4+ feel no pain.
The herald of Slaanesh rolled a 5 on the powerful gift. I decided to pick the powerful Aetherblade.
The herald of Tzeentch rolled a 3 for his exalted gift. I selected a hellforged artifact instead: the portal glyph.
The herald of tzeentch rolled for psychic powers, he got the third spell of tzentch and the primary power of tzeentch as well as the primary spell in divination.
The 20 man horror unit got the primary tzeentch spell. 2 of the 11 man units got the bolt of change while the other one had the primary power.
rolled for his warlord on strategic traits and got 2: Night Attacker.
He gave 1 strike squad with the inquisitor, the NDK and his terminator squad the shield of blades.
His inquisitor selected the primary power in divination.

The board was 72X48” we had a very balanced terrain setup. 2 LoS blocking pieces of terrain on both left sides. 5 ruins and 3 craters that were placed pretty symmetric so no one could blame the other for having better terrain.
We rolled of who deploys first and I won with a 6 against a 2 Very Happy



I placed my Bloodthirster on my left most flank behind the line of sight blocking terrain.
Both Soulgrinders were placed in the middle of my deployment as close to the enemy as possible. Both still had some cover from a ruin. Behind the right most was the Skullcannon of Khorne.
The unit of seekers got accompanied by the herald of slaanesh. I placed them infront of the soulgrinders inside the ruin in the middle of my deployment zone, keeping as many out of line of sight as possible. The herald of tzeentch + the 20 man unit of horrors stood behind the left most soulgrinder while some of the units models made a small line around the left most soulgrinder to be as close to the enemy as possible. The other 3 horror units I kept in reserve.

He deployed his OHI with a 10 man strike squad in the middle ruin of his and kept most of his models out of LoS aswell. The second strike squad was on the left side of the first SS. Still taking about 60% of the ruins cover.
The third strike squad was placed on his left side outside of LoS. The NDK was standing on his right side behind some ruin but was still visible. He wanted to counter my Bloodthirster.
The grandmaster and his unit were placed the inquisitors Strike squad and the NDK. Both Dreads where placed behind the middle ruin behind the inquisitors unit.

He rolled to grab the initiative but failed.



Turn 1 Daemons:

Movement phase:
I flew my Bloodthirster 24” directly across the board towards the GKGM and the terminators. The seekers made difficult terrain tests and 2 died in it. They moved 12” right towards the middle of the field and tried to get as many cover from the ruin in the middle of the board. The herald of tzeentch used the primary dinvination spell on the right most soulgrinder. his unit of horrors moved 6” towards the middle ruin aswell, towards the relic. After moving the herald of tzeentch used his portal glyph and placed it as close as possible towards the relics ruin. I rolled for scatter and hit. The 3” blast marker was placed perfectly without the enemy beeing able to see it at all.
Both soulgrinders moved around the ruin and were standing in the open now. The skuilcannon moved right and stood behind a soulgrinder. At the end of the movement phase I rolled a D6 to see if the portal spawns some horrors and it did. I spawned 3 horros (which got the primary tzeentch power) and hid them out of Los behind the middle ruin.

Shooting phase:
I rolled for the warpstorm table and got a 8: I rolled for my khorne units first. The skullcannon did not get hit but the bloodthirster rolled the 6, wich I however rerolled thanks to the instrument of chaos on my seekers.
The inquisitors unit rolled a 6 aswell and suffered 5 hits wich killed 2 GK’s in the unit. The SS that was hiding in the LoS blocking terrain got hit aswell but only lost 1 GK.

The Bloodthirster used his whip on the GKGM and his terminator unit but rolled a 1 to hit. His reroll was a 2 and he hit the unit (yes his BS is that high!) also wounding a halberd terminator wich didn’t made his invul save.
The divination blessed soulgrinder fired at the Strike squad that was hiding partly in cover. He scattered too far so I rerolled. Thanks to nightfighting however the unit only lost 1 model. The second soulgrinder shot at the GKGM and his unit but didn’t caused any damage. The seekers rolled to run and ran 10” towards the middle ruin hiding close to the spawned horror unit and used as best as possible the LoS blocking of the ruin. The skullcannon turboboosted on the soulgrinders right side and waited for its prey.



Grey Knights Turn 1:
Movement phase:
The inquisitor used the primary divination power on the GKGM and his unit. His unit remained on its position but moved a bit so both psycannons could target the Bloodthirster.. The GKGM moved forward closer towards the bloodthirster. The NDK moved 12” through the thirster and was within 5” to assault him and beeing able to see some of the Seekers of slanesh.
The GKSS close to the inquisitors unit moved inside the ruin and now where completely out of LoS. The SS that was hiding inside the completely LoS blocking terrain moved towards the middle of the board still using some of the terrain to get cover. Both psyrifle dreads moved into open terrain and got a clear LoS towards the Bloodthirster. All strike squads successfully used warpquake.

Shooting phase: the GKGM and his unit fired on the Bloodthirster. Thanks to divination they even caused 2 wounds but the thirster made all his saves aswell as his grounding test. The inquisitors units psycannon shot on the Thirster aswell but failed to hit. The first psyrifle dread managed to cause 2 wounds aswell but those also got saved including the grounding test. The second dread tried his luck but failed to wound, he hit however but the thirster kept flying. The NDK couldn’t fire on the bloodthirster so he fired on the seekers and killed 5 of them because they were so clustered, one of them was the champion. The single unit of GKSS that moved into the field fired on my horrors but only killed 1 due to the nightfighting.

Daemons 0 : 0 Grey Knights



Daemons Turn 2:
Movement phase:
Reserves. The first unit of horrors with bolt of change made it in so I used the instrument of chaos to bring the other unit with the bolt of change in. the second unit failed the reserve roll.
I deepstriked both horror units around 6” behind the psyrifle dreads. One scattered 11” inside a ruin, losing 2 models to dangerous terrain. The other unit hit its spot.
The herald of tzeentch buffed the primary divination power on his unit and they moved towards the SS that was firing at them. The soulgrinders stomped forward towards the middle. The skullcannon moved 6” and remained beside the soulgrinder. The bloodthirster decided to land within 2” of the GKGM and his unit.
The unit of seekers moved towards the inquisitors unit and through the relics ruins. Losing a model in it. They were 6” towards the closest visible model of that unit (one psycannon guy who shot at the thirster)
The 3 man horror unit tried to move through the terrain towards the relic but failed with a double 1.
I rolled for the portal to spit out some horrors and made the roll again, spawning 5 horrors(with the primary tzeentch power). I placed them within 6” of the portal as close to the relic as possible.

Shooting phase:
I rolled for the warpstorm table and got a 11: a random enemy psyker had to be determined (wich was hard with 9 psyker units on the board, thankfully I got some D10 and D20. It hit the GK SS that moved towards the inquisitors unit to hide in terrain. The justicar failed his 3d6 leadership test and died. I spawned a herald of tzeentch within 6” behind his units back (I was hoping to get the bolt of change but he only got the 1st one so I took the primary instead).
The Bloodthirster shot on the terminators but the sword one made his invulnerable save.
the fresh spawned herald of tzeentch used his primary power on the unit of wich he spawned from but they made the deny the witch.
The big unit of horrors with the herald both used the primary tzeentch power on the lonesome strikesquad that shot at them. Both managed the psychic test and the GK failed to deny the witch twice. I activated the banner and shot at them wich were in total 27 wounds on the GKSS. Not a single one survived and so I got the first blood. The skullcannon of khorne shot on the inquisitors unit (could only see one model) and thanks to its BS it hit. But they made all saves. The soulgrinders both fired the harvesters on the NDK but didnt managed to make a wound. The deepstriked horror unit that scattered inside the terrain tried the bold of tzeetch on the first psyrifle dread but he made his deny the witch. The other unit that hit however pierced its rear armor with a S9hit, penetrated it and blew it up. the line of this spell also hit 3 members of the inquisitors unit but 2 made the 5+ coversave. The 2 spawned horror units both ran towards the relic and stood around it.

Assault phase:
The bloodthirster declared assault on the GKGM and his unit, the overwatch didn’t caused a wound and he made his assault roll. He challenged the grandmaster wich accepted. The psychostroke grenade result was 4. Ld of 2. I rolled for the eternal blade and got 1 extra attack for a total of 9 attacks. The hammer of wrath hit caused a wound wich he saved. With 9 attacks I wounded the Grandmaster 5 times and he failed 2 saves. Leaving him dead before he could strike, granting me the slain warlord. The terminators lost the morale check but couldn’t run away as a bloodthirster does not need to roll to catch up to i4 models, so the combat remained.
The seekers declared assault on the inquisitors unit. The overwatch killed 2 but thanks to fleet they managed to still get into combat. Thanks to the skullcannon they didn’t lose initiative due to assaulting through terrain The herald challenged and selected the inquisitor wich was overwhelmed by 5 reroll to hit 3+ rolls that got S5 AP2.
The remaining 10 seeerkers killed 5 Grey Knights of the unit. The grey knights who made the counter attack roll btw killed 3 seekers. They made the morale check.

Daemons 2 : 0 Grey Knights



Grey Knights turn 2:
The NDK moved towards the bloodthirster to get ready to assault him. The strike squad close to the in combat bound inquisitors unit stayed where they have been. The psyrifle dread moved a bit to get a better vision on the skullcannon.

Shooting Phase:
The not locked SS fired on the unit of horrors that blew up the psyrifle dread and killed 7 models.
The psyrifle dread fired on the skullcannon and managed to penetrate 3 times but I made 2 invulnerable saves.

Assault phase. The NDK assaulted the Bloodthirster. He didn’t challenge so his terminators could strike. So I ssued a challenge which the NDK accepted. He used dark excommunication and took the feel no pain and the eternal blade off my thirster. Leaving him with 6 attacks. The hammer of wrath hit failed to woundthe bloodthirster wounded the NDK 3 times of wich he made 1 invulnerable save. The NDK wounded the bloodthirster 3 times and I also saved 1. Leaving a draw.
The daemonettes that are locked in combat with the SS killed the remaining models and consolidated 2”.

Daemons 2 : 0 Grey Knights

Daemons Turn 3:
At this turn my opponent and I decided that the game is over so we let the duel between the bloodthirster and NDK go on as a little cinematic. He used dark excommunication again. The bloodthirster made 3 wounds again of wich he only failed 1. The NDK caused 2 wounds both of wich the thirster failed. The thirster made his morale test aswell as the daemonbane test and in the following GK’s turn the thirster killed the NDK.


The best bet for a NDK to kill a thirster is probably using just the force weapon. The daemon only got a invulnerable save of 5+ so one wound is all that is needed.. if you activate the force weapon, FnP cannot be used. Dark excommunication is nice but a thirster is just a combat monster even without gifts.

I wrote the batrep on the Laptop of my fiance so I couldn’t add the images I normally use on my reports for a visual. I hope it still is somewhat clear of how the game did go









Last edited by Souba on Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:49 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Know thy Nemesis: the new Chaos Daemons know how:

Post by Constantine on Sun Mar 03, 2013 4:27 pm

Great report Brother.
Can you add in the pics later?

The Bloodthirster really is a mighty oponant Shocked
I can't really see what else the GK player could have done differently outside of what you identified for the NDK using his force weapon. scratch

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+++"There is nothing in the arcane and blasphemous arsenal of the forces of Chaos that can compare to faith. With the power of faith, our weapons become shining instruments of deliverance that can cleave the mightiest daemon in twain. With the power of faith, our minds appear as slivers of pure agony to the daemon, driving into the wretched forms of those who would dare stand before us. With the power of faith, our words become commands that cause the daemon to cower and cringe in terror. I could meet my enemies unarmed without a shred of fear in my chest, for I know that the Emperor watches over me and guides my hand. So let them come. We shall show them what the power of faith can do."+++ (Brother Captain Stern)

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Re: Know thy Nemesis: the new Chaos Daemons know how:

Post by Souba on Sun Mar 03, 2013 4:34 pm

there are no pics of the board itself i think i will use vasall then. allright with that?

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Re: Know thy Nemesis: the new Chaos Daemons know how:

Post by Constantine on Sun Mar 03, 2013 4:43 pm

Absolutely. Thank you for putting in so much time and effort on this for all of us. It is greatly appreciated.

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+++"There is nothing in the arcane and blasphemous arsenal of the forces of Chaos that can compare to faith. With the power of faith, our weapons become shining instruments of deliverance that can cleave the mightiest daemon in twain. With the power of faith, our minds appear as slivers of pure agony to the daemon, driving into the wretched forms of those who would dare stand before us. With the power of faith, our words become commands that cause the daemon to cower and cringe in terror. I could meet my enemies unarmed without a shred of fear in my chest, for I know that the Emperor watches over me and guides my hand. So let them come. We shall show them what the power of faith can do."+++ (Brother Captain Stern)

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Re: Know thy Nemesis: the new Chaos Daemons know how:

Post by Souba on Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:51 pm

allright added a visual for the batrep. note that the battle shown there is not the same as in the game itself it just acts as a pointer of how the game rolled up.

GK HQ's and heralds got red bases to better see where they are.

hope it helps for better understanding Smile

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Re: Know thy Nemesis: the new Chaos Daemons know how:

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