Opinions on AV14 in 6th

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Opinions on AV14 in 6th

Post by DOMIN4TRIX on Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:31 pm

Only showing 4 AV14 targets and a T7 3+ 4++ weapon at the start of the game.

First turn firepower of 11 TL lascannon and 4 TL heavy bolters, which can be split between 8 different enemy units.

I have melta, anti-infantry, an assault threat deploying from assault vehicles, non scattering deepstrike and 55 scoring troops. The question is will the AV14 hold up to most 6th edition armies? Is a trip Raider list viable and what are the dangers of putting all of my baskets in 4 eggs!

Cortaez
Mystic, 4 Jokaero
Bastion
Icarus Lascannon

Landraider (searchlight)
Mystic, 1 flamer Acolyte, 2 melta Acolytes, 2 Arco's, 2 Crusaders, 2 DCA

Landraider (searchlight)
Mystic, 1 flamer Acolyte, 2 melta Acolytes, 2 Arco's, 2 Crusaders, 2 DCA

Landraider (searchlight)
Mystic, 1 flamer Acolyte, 2 melta Acolytes, 2 Arco's, 2 Crusaders, 2 DCA

10 Strike squad (2 psycannon)

10 Strike squad (2 psycannon)

1979

nb; couldnt remember the cost of the icarus so guessed 20pts - could instead go for a relay to aid the SS deepstrike.


Last edited by DOMIN4TRIX on Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:33 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Opinions on AV14 in 6th

Post by Guest on Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:10 pm

Holy shit dude, in theory, that's nasty! 1 AV14 vehicle is bad enough to deal with in 6th atm with the move to plasma. Let alone 3 of the fuckers with 4 hull points each. Not to mention the bastion which is AV14 aswell.

The bastion is 75 pts base and the las cannon upgrade is a further 35 pts.

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Re: Opinions on AV14 in 6th

Post by DOMIN4TRIX on Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:23 pm

- 105 for 3 Jokaero

+ 60 for 3 plasma cannon servitors that only get hot on a double 1!

+ 15 for the actual price of the Icarus

+ 15 for psybolt ammo to all 3 raiders to help against fliers

+ 40 for psybolt ammo to both strike squads

2004pts scratch






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Re: Opinions on AV14 in 6th

Post by Guest on Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:34 pm

Take out a flamer, or mystic or just 1 acolyte without weapons.

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Re: Opinions on AV14 in 6th

Post by Aubec le noir on Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:15 am

i've always loved LR (any type) : i've 6 of them (7 ? scratch Razz ). I believe that they still are the best vehicles we have in our codex
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Re: Opinions on AV14 in 6th

Post by Rivan on Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:54 am

I love LR's too. I even plan to get the FW models although I think our GK's weren't around yet when those tanks were used (Spartan assault tank, etc). Oh well, I can always make something up fluff wise Laughing

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Re: Opinions on AV14 in 6th

Post by Souba on Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:13 am

man guys... remember the awesome grey knight landraider redeemer whos flamestorm cannons also ignored invulnerable saves and passengers attacking out of it had initiative 10? glorious times.

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Re: Opinions on AV14 in 6th

Post by Rivan on Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:17 am

Souba wrote:man guys... remember the awesome grey knight landraider redeemer whos flamestorm cannons also ignored invulnerable saves and passengers attacking out of it had initiative 10? glorious times.

Yeah, glorious times indeed Smile

@DOM: I do think that is a brutal list. Even w/ the hull point system, LR's are still very tough vehicles to knock out.

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Re: Opinions on AV14 in 6th

Post by Souba on Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:07 pm

i agree with rivan. especially as most enemys now go more towards anti infantry instead of anti tank weaponry landraiders have become tougher

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Re: Opinions on AV14 in 6th

Post by Guest on Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:00 am

Landraiders indeed have become tougher. And even can use an AV14 assault vehicle.

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Re: Opinions on AV14 in 6th

Post by bigbri on Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:55 am

The biggest advantage I've noticed for LRs is they have AV14 all round. In my experience people who lack the firepower to blast through heavy front armour and multiple HP often rely on assaulting weaker rear AV to finish tanks off.

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Re: Opinions on AV14 in 6th

Post by Guest on Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:21 pm

That's true, so often when people see my list they will deep strike some melta behind me and try the pop it at close range. The whole mentality of it is brilliant. "Holy crap there's a large tank coming at me!"

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Re: Opinions on AV14 in 6th

Post by DOMIN4TRIX on Sat Jan 26, 2013 10:38 pm

The antithesis of this list would be:

5 shooty acolyte units (+ mystics) in chimera's (2 Inquisitor / servitor units, special weapons and stormbolters for the other 3)

deepstriking in the assault troops in the form of 10 terminators and 3 dreadknights (without PT's)

More targets on the table at the start but all much more vulnerable.

This places almost all of my troops choices at risk from turn 1.

Deepstiking the assault units is counterintuitive.

Im relying on melta and dreadknights in CC for my AV14 threat.

On balance I prefer the original list - there is a certain safety with only showing cheap henchmen units from the off but I need these alive to score.

I also prefer having my assault troops in assault vehicles and my shooty/scoring units deepstriking for the end game




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Re: Opinions on AV14 in 6th

Post by appleunit on Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:53 am

i like personal teleporter as it makes the dreadknight a JUMP pack Monstrous creature:) and greatsword is 5 str 10 attacks on a charge:)(rerollable hit/wound/armorpen)

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Re: Opinions on AV14 in 6th

Post by DOMIN4TRIX on Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:50 am

appleunit wrote:i like personal teleporter as it makes the dreadknight a JUMP pack Monstrous creature:) and greatsword is 5 str 10 attacks on a charge:)(rerollable hit/wound/armorpen)

Oh agreed, so do I - except when im deepstriking them in, in which case I would take 3 without PT's for the same price as 2 with PT's.

As for the sword, I can normally use the points better elsewhere in my army - I still get 5 Str 10, AP 2 attacks without it.

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Re: Opinions on AV14 in 6th

Post by Corennus on Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:46 am

Land Raiders in 6th are now even more of a gamble than in 5th in my opinion.

4 hull points is great. Until you face a mass of dark lances / gauss weapons and get glanced to death.
The problem every land raider has is it can't get up the field fast enough to ensure it delivers its troops/terminators/henchmen into the assault.
In a way it's been overshadowed by the (less armoured) speedy stormraven.

I will admit there is nothing like having a load of land raiders on the table to make you feel powerful, but the amount of anti-tank weapons available to every army now means that more often than not you're sinking a LOT of points into tanks that won't survive.

In my opinion armies with target saturation (a lot of rhinos/razorbacks/chimaeras) will fare better over many turns than 2 or 3 land raiders since the amount of firepower able to be turned against each vehicle is lessened.

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Re: Opinions on AV14 in 6th

Post by Guest on Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:20 am

Bro 18" isn't fast enough for you?

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Re: Opinions on AV14 in 6th

Post by Corennus on Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:54 am

I assume by 18" movement for a land raider you mean moving flat out 12" to start, then D6" in shooting phase.

My point is that Land Raiders cost too much for what they actually deliver. Better to take a load of rhinos for lesser cost than one or 2 raiders that cant' shoot if you want to move them up to 18"

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Re: Opinions on AV14 in 6th

Post by Corennus on Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:56 am

The only raider list I think that I would ever take would be a 5 land raider list using BA codex. cheap raiders for more saturation. and even then it wouldn't be my preferred choice

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Re: Opinions on AV14 in 6th

Post by DOMIN4TRIX on Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:28 pm

Thanks Corennus, all good points

I know a raider list would get tabled by any army packed with lance/gauss/melta but then everything in this game has its nemesis. Marines hate the helldrake, terminators with plasma etc. I suppose this promotes balance though, which can only be good.

It seems that to be the most competetive now you have to put as many models on the table as possible so that whatever you lose is not crucial to your plans. Maybe 6th is the death of the elite army - the deathstar has been replaced by the blob and the airforce. I should just accept it - if you cant beat em...

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Re: Opinions on AV14 in 6th

Post by Guest on Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:01 pm

... Join 'em. The Death Star is to easy to handle, kite it around, send some chaff at it, it's to easily out played. 10 year olds do draigo and 20 paladins.

I think it comes down to your meta to be perfectly honest. And your play style. There's nothing like pointing my landraider at nasty units, shoot it then assault. Rinse and repeat.

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Re: Opinions on AV14 in 6th

Post by Constantine on Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:31 pm

Grandmaster Arratak wrote:... Join 'em. The Death Star is to easy to handle, kite it around, send some chaff at it, it's to easily out played. 10 year olds do draigo and 20 paladins.

I think it comes down to your meta to be perfectly honest. And your play style. There's nothing like pointing my landraider at nasty units, shoot it then assault. Rinse and repeat.

For sure. It also depends on your level of competitiveness, and how important things like fun, and fluff are to you.....

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Re: Opinions on AV14 in 6th

Post by Tiberian on Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:30 pm

I like it, lets bring the fear of the land raider back in 6th

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Re: Opinions on AV14 in 6th

Post by Corennus on Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:12 am

There's nothing like pointing my landraider at nasty units, shoot it then assault. Rinse and repeat.


That very much depends on the army you're against. Please try that against Imp Guard or Dark Eldar.

I will admit that a land raider with a techmarine inside is very very nasty cause a Gk one can shake off shaken/stunned and techmarine can repair anything up to immobilised. And the worst weapon you'll ever face needs a 4+ to glance and 5+ to penetrate. But it's a big risk if the enemy has over 20 of those things (dark lances i'm looking at you)

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Re: Opinions on AV14 in 6th

Post by Guest on Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:52 am

I assume you we're quoting me, there's a quote option on the top right of the text box. It helps to make it clearer Very Happy

And I vs imperial guard and dark eldar all the time. In fact I vs the dark eldar list from the ETC. ravages? The heavy support with the triple dark lance. And 9 venoms with double splinter cannons. I also verse guard with battle tanks out the wargh zoo. And I've won every game. It's called target priority and LoS.

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Re: Opinions on AV14 in 6th

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