The Blade of Antwyr

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The Blade of Antwyr

Post by PurityinFlames on Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:10 am


I was playing a game this weekend with Castellan Crowe - a spectator asked why I was letting my opponent make saving throws against the wounds that weren't Rending. When I said that the sword was just a close combat weapon, he told me it was a Nemesis weapon still.

Now, I've looked in the rules and I'm fairly confident that I've been playing it right, but in case I've missed something - can someone just confirm if the Blade is just a normal sword in the hands of Crowe (albeit one that Rends on 4+) or if it's AP3 like other Nemesis weapons?

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Re: The Blade of Antwyr

Post by volvoe on Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:25 am

The codex does specifically read: "treated as a close combat weapon"

It's not a ap3 nor is it force

However depending on the people you're playing with, you could cheese the rules a bit by saying that Cleansing Flame used by Crowe causes rending... It's highly debated and I'm not sure what most judges would rule. If the group of people you play with say its okay then by all means you should just abuse the rule. I mean give Crowe a break! He isn't an IC and his weapon is just a normal CC weapon. Razz

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Re: The Blade of Antwyr

Post by PurityinFlames on Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:31 am


True dat - I'm hoping to get my paintjob on him finished today and I'll post pics when I do.

He is my HQ for a tournament in the next few weeks, but I think I'll steer clear of the Rending Cleansing Flames - that does push into the realms of cheese!

Thanks for your help volvoe - I just wanted to make sure I was playing him right.

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Re: The Blade of Antwyr

Post by Guest on Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:49 am

Well RAW is says "cleansing flame is treated as a close combat attack" everyone takes a wound on a 4+

RAW says "crowes close combat attacks rend on a 4+"

Find me evidence in the FAQ or errata that states otherwise. I've got solid writing as my backup. Find me rules to deny it.

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Re: The Blade of Antwyr

Post by first strike on Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:09 pm

Arratak is correct but it is up to you if you want to play that way or not, will depend on the opp, it brings to mind (in 5th ed) something that happened, and this was F.A.Qed. If a lib takes a perals and is in hand to hand and armed with a warding stalf then he had a 2+ inv save, if not in hand to hand then he just had a 5+ for the terminator armour. RAW. Just does not feel right.

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Re: The Blade of Antwyr

Post by Guest on Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:19 pm

At a tournament hell yes I would use the RAW but in casual fun games, probably not

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Re: The Blade of Antwyr

Post by Aubec le noir on Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:46 am

that's rule shenannigans... but if it works ! Suspect
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Re: The Blade of Antwyr

Post by Sai on Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:43 am



Where I'm looking on page 31 says 'unsaved wounds caused by cleansing flame are counted as having been caused in close combat for all purposes.'

It doesn't say it is a close combat attack, nor suggest at any point that it is one.

The wounds have to be 'unsaved' before they are counted as 'being caused in close combat'. Rending would have to take place before they became 'unsaved'.

Quite clearly from this wording rending would not apply. It doesn't apply in the spirit or the word of the rules.

On the other hand when some FAQ monkey got given the closed question, is it 'a shooting or close combat attack', and he unfortunately wrote 'close combat attack,' most probably because it occurs in the assault phase.

Stoopid monkey.

The rules do say that 'Armour saves may be taken as normal' against cleansing flame. It depends what you take as 'normal' to whether rending would work seeing as that would make the save abnormal/non-existant. That doesn't sound too convincing, but possibly could be with proper research.

Still, it's not my problem and it never will be.

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Re: The Blade of Antwyr

Post by PurityinFlames on Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:26 am


I'd suspect that the Wounds are counted as close combat for the purposes of Combat Resolution, but I do find the idea of them Rending being against the spirit of the character; even the entry for Rending on Crowe's profile connects it with him being a Master Swordsman

Still, it's horses for courses, I guess.

I won't be using it as such in the forthcoming tournament; I have more intend to Heroic Sacrifice with him and take out big monsters!

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Re: The Blade of Antwyr

Post by Guest on Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:38 am

Yeah... Put it this way... As most people have said... It don't matter... Crowe is a liability, not worth taking for tournament level IMO.

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Re: The Blade of Antwyr

Post by Guest on Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:58 am

Ah ha! I knew it was in there. Grey knight FAQ version 1.1 under the FAQ section:

Q: "Is cleansing flame a close combat attack or a shooting attack?"
A: "it is a close combat attack"

Directly quoted.

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Re: The Blade of Antwyr

Post by volvoe on Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:33 am

Everything GM Arratak has been right so far, however the problem that most people say that Cleansing Flame doesn't rend is the wording of cleansing flame:

On a roll of 4+ each model suffers a wound

Crowe rends on a roll To Wound on a 4+

It's similar to taking dangerous terrain tests. It says that the model suffers a wound on a roll of 1. But hey, Cleansing Flame is still considered a close combat attack and counts towards the result of combat. People at my store say that Crowe's cleansing flame rends, but heretics cry that's over powered!

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Re: The Blade of Antwyr

Post by DonFer on Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:40 am

I would have to say that Arratak's logic is sound. Cleansing Flame is a CC attack, for all purposes. And the FAQ question goes directly to confirm that.

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Re: The Blade of Antwyr

Post by Aubec le noir on Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:48 am

always the same problem with GW rules and their wording ... there's always bias or multiple interpretations that makes players struggling each other on a particularly badly written rule... Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad
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Re: The Blade of Antwyr

Post by DonFer on Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:54 am

I don't think is badly written, they need a good editor in order to give order and sense to the rules. This could easily be addressed by saying for example in the Blade's description "Crowe's CC attacks with this sword rend on a 4+". And not as a separate phrase.

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Re: The Blade of Antwyr

Post by jeffersonian000 on Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:18 am

first strike wrote:Arratak is correct but it is up to you if you want to play that way or not, will depend on the opp, it brings to mind (in 5th ed) something that happened, and this was F.A.Qed. If a lib takes a perals and is in hand to hand and armed with a warding stalf then he had a 2+ inv save, if not in hand to hand then he just had a 5+ for the terminator armour. RAW. Just does not feel right.

Not to derail the thread, but you can no longer take invul saves vs Perils in 6th. Per the rules for Perils on page 67 of the BRB, no saves of any kind are allowed. Per the rules for saves on page 17 of the BRB, Invul saves are used in place of armor saves that are bypassed by AP. As Perils ignores all saves, not just armor saves, our GK are SOL on a Perils. However, so is every Psyker that finds themselves under one of our Mind Stike Missile blast markers.

SJ

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Re: The Blade of Antwyr

Post by Guest on Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:40 am

Bro read his comment....he said in 5th edition. He never said hats what happens now.

And he'll yeah, our mind strike missiles and other anti psyker wargear just got buffed. Condemer bolting. Null rod, I think. Andante a few others.

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Re: The Blade of Antwyr

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